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GirlWritesWhat on “The Necessity of Domestic Violence”: “I don’t really find too much [that’s] seriously ethically questionable.”

Yesterday, we took a look at Ferdinand Bardamu’s manosphere manifesto “The Necessity of Domestic Violence,” a thoroughly despicable piece of writing that concludes:

Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.

I decided to take a look at Bardamu’s post yesterday after running across a discussion of it in Reddit’s new FeMRA subreddit, a forum ostensibly devoted to what “women can do to advance men’s rights as women.” It’s a strange little subreddit, started by a man and dominated by some of Reddit’s most unsavory MaleMRAs, some of them banned in the regular Men’s Rights subreddit.

Recently one of the most unsavory of the bunch, calling himself JeremiahGuy this time, posted a link to Bardamu’s domestic violence manifesto, which he hosts on his website. Jeremiah naturally used the discussion as an excuse to post more apologias for domestic “discipline” along the lines of the quote from him I featured yesterday.

But I was a little surprised to see GirlWritesWhat, the blabby FeMRA video blogger who’s captured the hearts of Reddit’s Men’s Rights crowd, step into the conversation with something of a defense of Bardamu’s noxious views. After reading Bardamu’s manifesto – the one advocating that men “terrorize” their women to make them behave – GWW blithely concluded:

I don’t really find too much in the article that strikes me as seriously ethically questionable.

Have I taken that remark out of context? Yes. In context, it’s worse. Here’s the entire quote from her, and a further clarification of her position.

She wasn’t the only one in the discussion to get upvotes for suggesting that men slapping women around from time to time isn’t really such a big deal. MaunaLoona (a MaleMRA) wrote:

Lots of MRAs like to pretend that they care about male victims of domestic violence. But the Men’s Rights movement hasn’t done shit for them. And here, I think, is why: too many MRAs are less interested in helping male victims of domestic violence than they are in providing excuses and justifications for male abusers.

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Falconer
12 years ago

Polliwog posted while I was composing that last one.

Holy Hannah, Polliwog, that was a bad situation.

Cliff Pervocracy
12 years ago

When I was dating an asshole, the sex usually was most “scorching” right after he’d treated me worst.

This was not because I was turned on by being abused.

It was because I’d learned that sex was the easiest way to distract him and make him be nice to me again.

If that’s what you fucking want your life to fucking be, MRA’s… holy fuck you are just BROKEN FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS if you’re okay with that being your life.

“Tortured another human being until she touched my penis in an attempt to stop me. AW YEAH BROS GOT MY PENIS TOUCHED.”

FUCK.

Polliwog
Polliwog
12 years ago

Holy Hannah, Polliwog, that was a bad situation.

Yeah, my ex was kind of a colossal asshole, to say the least.

Luckily, I’m long since rid of him, and doing well. 🙂

Falconer
12 years ago

That’s great to hear!

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
12 years ago

Polliwog I’m glad to hear you’re free of that situation.

I’m sure Bardamu can point out to all of us that it isn’t “terrorism” unless the vic-um, I mean woman can’t tell what she’ll get hit for next. I mean even a woman can figure out doing something wrong will get her hit. Keep it exciting!

ManUpManDown
ManUpManDown
12 years ago

A note to those who think they understand MRAs by reading anecdotal things like this post.

While most MRAs, myself included, really like and admire GWW, and agree with a vast majority of what she says, nobody agrees with EVERYTHING she says. As such, she does not represent all or most MRAs when she says something that is, or seems if read in a way she did not intend it to be read, very controversial.

This thread is a good example of this: the posters that dominated the MRA thread in question were mostly traditionalists. Just like feminism, the MRM has some people who think and say obnoxious things. There is indeed a divide between MRA traditionalists and equalists, and within these categories, there are further divides, such that it’s silly to say “MRAs think this way,” or conclude that readers understand the “MRA position” on things like domestic violence by reading the relevant thread.

With that said, despite what ManBoobz would have you believe, a vast majority of MRAs are equalists (progressives who would be feminists were it not with the glaring and chronic problems with feminism). Indeed, the problem thread prompted a discussion of the problems presented by the influence of traditionalists on the MRM generally, where in I noted that they are a small but dangerous minority (a claim that got quickly upvoted).

For those of you who really want to understand what MRM is about, I encourage you to be more open-minded and not judge the movement based on occasional anecdotes from sites like this. It’s easy to be dismissive and glib around a bunch of folks who already think the way you do; but it’s more constructive to expose your world-view to meaningful challenge.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
12 years ago

I can see why Elam likes her. She’s an even bigger scumbag than he is.

cloudiah
12 years ago

I went over to look at that FeMRA thread. That was a mistake. Can someone please get me a puppy?

Polliwog
Polliwog
12 years ago

I went over to look at that FeMRA thread. That was a mistake. Can someone please get me a puppy?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li45dcJivf1qzfsnio1_500.jpg

drst
drst
12 years ago

Everyone understood what was said in the above post

I didn’t. The first time I saw the quote I thought the “it” referred to men and was confused as to how men beating women made men not behave like chimps. The grammatical structure of the quote is faulty. I didn’t bring it up before because there’s so much wrong with the sentiment that it seemed superfluous.

some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
12 years ago

I didn’t read Ferdinand Bardamu’s “The Necessity of Domestic Violence, because it sounds disgusting.

So taking ONLY what Girl Writes What withouthhaving read the Bardamu piece, and then accepting GWW at her word that what she wrote is an accurate reflection of her experience AND what happened, THEN,

“I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming.”

Do you agree this is a description of domestic violence that should result in the young woman in the couple being arrested?

some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
12 years ago

Also, somewhat off topic, I am probably doing something wrong, but I often get the last set of comments and then a link to go to the earlier set. I’d prefer to just read from beginning to end.

Is there a way to read your comments threads starting from the first comment proceeding to the last?

Falconer
12 years ago
some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
12 years ago

I wish I could edit comments a bit as well..

I didn’t read Ferdinand Bardamu’s “The Necessity of Domestic Violence, because it sounds disgusting.

So taking ONLY what Girl Writes What withouthhaving read the Bardamu piece, and then accepting GWW at her word that what she wrote is an accurate reflection of her experience AND what happened, THEN,

“I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming.”

Do you agree this is a description of domestic violence that should result

1) In the young woman in the couple being arrested and spending time in jail until someone bails her out?
2) The man and the baby having a place of shelter provided for them?
3) The young man being given a TRO against the young woman to keep her out of the apartment in an ex parte procedure?
4) The young man being given temporary custody of the child until such time as a hearing in an ex parte procedure?
5) The young woman being told she is not allowed to withdraw her savings from any joint accounts
6) The young woman being forced to find a new home

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

OK, some guy, I don’t think you’re here in good faith AT ALL, but no. None of the above.

He hit her. She instigated it, but he hit. They both need a time out.

Falconer
12 years ago

Is there a way to read your comments threads starting from the first comment proceeding to the last?

What I do is click back one page, and then go up into the URL. It’ll say something near the end like “comment-page-3” or something. I edit it to say “page 1” and hit Enter.

Cliff Pervocracy
12 years ago

Is anyone else amazed with GWW’s ability to tell that it’s the woman stomping, slamming, and throwing things, just by the sound?

That’s… that’s some good hearing right there.

fembot
12 years ago

“I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming.”

Do you agree this is a description of domestic violence that should result in the young woman in the couple being arrested?

If this was a common occurence, with the man trying to disengage, and NEVER ended in the man hitting the woman, then yes, she would be at fault. It is not ok to follow someone from room to room, harassing them even as they’re trying to desperately get away from you. I had an ex who did that, and it was not fun. But he never hit me.

In the case of the couple with the baby described by GWW, it was NOT a healthy relationship. If the woman was creating a disturbance, yes, the poice should be called. If she is the violent one, smashing things, yelling obscenitites, yes, she should be arrested. But once one partner hits the other, it crosses a line. And he probably hit her because he thought that was a normal reaction to a screaming woman. Maybe he saw his father hit his mother. But even without the hitting, it was a bad situation. They should have lots of counseling.

What’s bad about GWW’s position, is that she is explaining this dysfunctional process as normal and healthy. It is far from it.

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

I know, Cliff. Truly amazing details for someone who wasn’t right there.

Noadi
Noadi
12 years ago

If we left off the bit at the end where the man dealt with his partner by HITTING HER rather than calling the police or leaving then

1) Yes
2) Yes, if they don’t feel safe
3) If he doesn’t feel safe then yes he should get a TRO
4) Yes
5) Yes, until a court proceeding establishes how the money should be split
6) Yes

However as soon as he escalated the situation from her verbally abusing him to him physically abusing her (hint: one is worse than the other) then that goes out the window because he resorted to physical violence over other methods of resolving the situation.

fembot
12 years ago

And as Cliff points out, it could have been the man stomping and breaking things upstairs.

some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
12 years ago

@hellkell,

“…he hit her… she instigated it”…

I think if you go by the standard definition of domestic violence and the domestic violence wheel, you would find you are mistaken.

Her actions, described in that first sentence ARE domestic violence.

His actions in retaliation ARE wrong. But make no mistake. She did not instigate. She committed.

some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
12 years ago

I entered a perfectly reasonable comment, it hasn’t shown up, nor is there any indication it is in a moderation queue. Is this a common problem at this blog, or is it unreasonable for me to wonder if I have been banned?

cloudiah
12 years ago

@some guy, Just what are you hoping to accomplish or prove by asking this question?

@puppyproviders, Thanks!

some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
12 years ago

Whoops! There it is. My apologies.