GirlWritesWhat on “The Necessity of Domestic Violence”: “I don’t really find too much [that’s] seriously ethically questionable.”

When will people learn that starting off with a sensible statement (“some women are shitty”) and then moving onto a wacky one (“anti-male government conspiracy”) hoping for the agreement to carry over is, like, the most transparent tactic in the universe?

It reminds me of something I heard on the radio the other day, people talking about the way you can get people to agree to something by first proposing something completely off-the-wall that they reject on the spot, that makes the (actual) followup proposal sound reasonable.

Yeah, this is like the opposite of that. Propose something reasonable, then follow up with something wacky and horribly wrong, then blame people for being horrible for commenting on the wtfness and “not accepting” at least the first (reasonable) thing.

Very similar to what I have experienced.

@Mike

You’re posting in support of someone who thinks that domestic violence is necessary.

Then you complain that society doesn’t take domestic violence seriously.

For real, the absolute last thing on earth than DV survivors, male or female, need is to read a bunch of arglebargle on how DV is so needed in today’s society.

@Mike, I’m sorry your sisters abused you. If you need referrals for free and confidential counseling, you can go to Transition House They are gender neutral in their services, and they have a toll free number you can call as well.

What is it that draws the necromancers to this thread?

The author is completely missing the point of girlwriteswhat’s comment, and the quote really only sounds bad out of context.

She is not justifying abuse, she is saying that women are equal participants in domestic violence, which unfortunately for feminists, is a fact, whether any of you like it or not. Ask the government and independent researchers. Women are domestic abusers as often as men, and are more likely to strike first.

In a perfect, beautiful, rainbow and sunshine filled world we wouldn’t have domestic violence at all, but unfortunately there are a lot of uneducated people out there who apparently just plain can’t stop themselves from trying to solve disputes and problems with aggression.

Also, the second redditor’s definition of domestic violence is perfectly accurate. The institutions of law enforcement and “justice” are content to punish men more often and more harshly for domestic violence despite the gender parity for instigation. That women are victims of domestic violence does not excuse your minimization of the equal victimhood of men. If you really cared that much about domestic violence you would demand the same punishments for every batterer, every mental abuser, every sexual assailant. And let’s not forget, folks, most sexual assaults are domestic.

Also Karen, the ‘gender parity’ myth has been busted a zillion times, and on this very site too

Most of the “gender symmetry” studies are surveys conducted using a methodologically flawed research tool called the Conflict Tactics Scale, originally developed by researcher Murray Straus in the 1970s. Indeed, the vast majority of the studies examined in the John Archer meta-study you mentioned used the CTS. [MK]

Researchers using the CTS ask survey respondents about an assortment of specific acts of violence. What the CTS doesn’t ask about are the causes, contexts, or consequences of these acts of violence.

As a result, one critic notes, the CTS “equates a woman pushing a man in self-defense to a man pushing a woman down the stairs. It labels a mother as violent if she defends her daughter from the father’s sexual molestation. It combines categories such as “hitting” and “trying to hit” despite the important difference between them. Because it looks at only one year, this study equates a single slap by a woman to a man’s 15 year history of domestic terrorism.” [MYTH]

This problem is exacerbated by the lack of attention given to the motivations behind the violence. While both men and women use violence to express anger, a number of studies show that men are far more likely to use domestic violence to control their victim, to “show who is boss.” Other studies that look at motivation find that much female “violence” is in fact self-defense. [APA]

There are other serious problems with the CTS as a measure of DV. The first version of the questionnaire left out sexual assaults by current or former intimate partners, which according to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) make up nearly 20% of all spousal assaults; such assaults are overwhelmingly committed by men against women. [MK] And the CTS also ignores violence that happens after partners separate, another critical omission, because violence tends to escalate, sometimes quite dramatically, after a separation. The NCVS found that separated women are 8 times as likely to face violence from an ex-partner than married women are from their husbands. [MK]

Researchers who use the CTS and similar surveys have acknowledged that their surveys provide only a limited look at DV as a whole, and that they do not capture much of the most serious kinds of abuse.

Unfortunately, the Men’s Rights Activists who have seized upon these surveys as evidence that women are equally abusive as men, ignoring these crucial caveats.

As a result, the researchers most involved in developing and refining the CTS over the years have explicitly denounced the opportunistic use of their findings by MRAs and others with an axe to grind against feminism. Murray Straus, for example, has noted that “the statistics are likely to be misused by misogynists and apologists for male violence.” [MF]

And you may recall Richard Gelles; he was one of the original developers of the CTS and has been one of the loudest proponents of the “gender symmetry” argument. You quoted him in your post to buttress your points. But he has been as scathing towards the MRAs who misrepresent his research as he has been to those who originally greeted his research with threats:

“The statement that men and women hit one another in roughly equal numbers is true, however, it cannot be made in a vacuum without the qualifiers that a) women are seriously injured at seven times the rate of men and b) that women are killed by partners at more than two times the rate of men….

[W]hen we look at injuries resulting from violence involving male and female partners, it is categorically false to imply that there are the same number of “battered” men as there are battered women. Research shows that nearly 90 percent of battering victims are women and only about ten percent are men… The most brutal, terrorizing and continuing pattern of harmful intimate violence is carried out primarily by men. [FAQ]

Straus, meanwhile, urges those citing his research to remember that women suffer far more from the consequences of abuse, and that because of this the “first priority in services for victims and in prevention and control must continue to be directed toward assaults by men [MS]

Or I could just click ‘newer comments’. Sorry, I’ve been had three hours sleep and been working since 0645 and had no tea yet. *falls asleep in corner of Manboobz dribbling slightly*

Girl Writes What posted a response to some of the flak she got for these remarks, if anyone cares to read;

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yfb2l/girlwriteswhat_says_women_instigate_domestic/c5vji1e?context=3

There are disturbed and violent men who lash out at people without provocation. Men who do this are just as likely to get violent with a man smaller than themselves than with a woman. Men violent in this fashion should be reported to the police ASAP. Years ago, I had to deal with a man like that on my job. I asked for an HR supervised meeting with our line manager. During that meeting, I said that my colleague’s conduct made me afraid for my personal safety. My line manager broke down, babbled on and on with self-pity, but did not answer my questions. He and I never spoke again. Years later, I found out that the fellow who abused and threatened me was addicted to steroids.

That said, a great deal of men on women violence has a context. The violence is easy to see; the patronising and demeaning behaviour by the woman that led to that violence is easy to overlook. My spouse has been known to behave in ways to which I take firm exception. When I put my foot down, the result has often been 15-30 minutes of shouted ranting abuse about my character and sexual abilities. Often this has been followed by a 10 day sex strike. But on a few occasions I have then been invited into the bedroom, and the sex has indeed been hot. I predicted decades ago that my wife’s behaviour would improve when she went through menopause. That bridge has been crossed, and my prophecy has proved largely correct.

Underlying all this is the arrogant assumption that adult women who have not been convicted of a crime are morally superior human beings. To which I say “pride goeth before the fall”. As for my sexual abilities, my wife has had at least one orgasm every time we have come together. 3x is not unusual.

My mother has warned me for years of the way many women patronise most men, talking and behaving in ways that mock our cherished traditions of freedom and equality.

I am not an MRA, and many public statements by MRAs make me very uneasy. I do like much of what GWW writes.

What! You like a free-thinking woman who speaks her mind!!! Shame on you!