Yesterday, we took a look at Ferdinand Bardamu’s manosphere manifesto “The Necessity of Domestic Violence,” a thoroughly despicable piece of writing that concludes:
Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.
I decided to take a look at Bardamu’s post yesterday after running across a discussion of it in Reddit’s new FeMRA subreddit, a forum ostensibly devoted to what “women can do to advance men’s rights as women.” It’s a strange little subreddit, started by a man and dominated by some of Reddit’s most unsavory MaleMRAs, some of them banned in the regular Men’s Rights subreddit.
Recently one of the most unsavory of the bunch, calling himself JeremiahGuy this time, posted a link to Bardamu’s domestic violence manifesto, which he hosts on his website. Jeremiah naturally used the discussion as an excuse to post more apologias for domestic “discipline” along the lines of the quote from him I featured yesterday.
But I was a little surprised to see GirlWritesWhat, the blabby FeMRA video blogger who’s captured the hearts of Reddit’s Men’s Rights crowd, step into the conversation with something of a defense of Bardamu’s noxious views. After reading Bardamu’s manifesto – the one advocating that men “terrorize” their women to make them behave – GWW blithely concluded:
I don’t really find too much in the article that strikes me as seriously ethically questionable.
Have I taken that remark out of context? Yes. In context, it’s worse. Here’s the entire quote from her, and a further clarification of her position.
She wasn’t the only one in the discussion to get upvotes for suggesting that men slapping women around from time to time isn’t really such a big deal. MaunaLoona (a MaleMRA) wrote:
Lots of MRAs like to pretend that they care about male victims of domestic violence. But the Men’s Rights movement hasn’t done shit for them. And here, I think, is why: too many MRAs are less interested in helping male victims of domestic violence than they are in providing excuses and justifications for male abusers.
some guy: are both co conspirators in domestic violence
Could you please be so kind as to translate this into English? Because it makes no sense. Against whom are the conspiring? Conspiracy is an act in concert to attain a desired end.
In which case it’s not Domestic Violence. That, of course, would require knowing something more than GWW’s self-serving description of the nagging wife who just needs a good slap to break her out of it to determine.
Or, it is possible you are trying to say they are both committing domestic violence, and so the scales are equal and no one is any more at fault?
If so, you are wrong. He, in the GWW story, hit her. That’s an escalation. If I yell at you in a bar; calling you a stupid asshole, and you hit me, you have committed the greater offense.
So to in this story.
The truth is, if you take what GWW’s representation as accurate, that modern domestic violence theory and law says the young woman is the perpetrator and the man, while his actions are wrong, is acting in self defense.
Nope. You are wrong about what constitutes self-defense in issues of DV.
some guy: “Funny, because GWW’s take is that the man is solving his problem by hitting the woman, no therapy needed because she’ll learn from being hit.”
I don’t see that anywhere in the excerpted portion.
Then you are either incredibly dense, or don’t think hitting women is at all wrong.
I don’t really find too much in the article that strikes me as seriously ethically questionable.
That’s what GWW said. She said in response to a post which says men need to hit women to “correct them”. That’s an explicit endorsement of the idea, she says there is no serious ethical question to the idea.
She goes on to say women need to take martial arts classes, so they will be properly trained to be hit, and take it in stride.
I believe from my very first descriptions of his actions I’ve described them as domestic violence and wrong.
Apart from you describing it as “self-defense”.
And it’s not just the correction. It’s saying women should be cool with being hit, because it allows their man to work off steam so they don’t bottle it up and end up doing something worse.
It’s… pretty reprehensible.
(That does also mean the martial arts training comment isn’t spectacularly illogical. It’s horrible, but it… fits into the whole horrible edifice.)
Lawgirl: I think that the problem on here is that many are from homes where there was some real domestic violence and it’s impossible for them to distinguish between the trivial from the severe. Perhaps you may have had an alcoholic mother who would beat your father when he didn’t do the dishes. Itmay be a good idea for those of you from these sorts of backgrounds to just read what more normal mainstream people write and refrain from commenting.
It may be a good idea for you to take your patronising, condescending, arrogant ignorance and shut the fuck up.
Alleging that people who were abused are therefore “too sensitive” to abuse, and that because the poor dears can’t tell the difference between reasonable violence and abuse; so they should sit in the corner while the normal people talk… is abusive shit.
Since you’ve not managed to make one argument, in my observation, with so much as a scintilla of honest understanding of actual facts the best course of action, IMO, would be for you to take a back seat and pay attenion while the educated and informed discuss the matter.
You might (though the evidence is against it) learn something.
Wait… lawgirl… I know you! You are Pell, MD.
There is no might about it. You won’t learn. At least so far you haven’t. You are convinced you can bullshit your way through law/medicine/psychology and, with the right incantations of the right words, magically convince us all of the rightness of your ways.
This is what, the fourth, or the fifth time you’ve tried to slide in an argument from authority based on you being a professional in some field you know bupkis about?
You’ve not learned from the past, and you, as a dog to it’s vomit, keep trying again.
Varpole: What you aren’t getting is that abuse is wrong. The question isn’t “are beatings worse than slaps”, the question is, “are slaps meritorious”.
We say no. GWW, and Bardamu, and TAB, all agree they are.
Steele, my boy: Let’s see…
Tom Martin: anathema. He was as dead to you; until he wasn’t.
GWW, pretty good, and her saying that women need to toughen up by taking martial arts classes so they won’t cry when they get hit by the men in their lives is an, “unfortunate error in judgement but, as will Tom “Penguins Are Whore” Martin’s advocacy of child prostitution you are willing to overlook it, because she says men are naturally superior to women and feminism is a crock.
That’s really all it takes for you to tolerate anything, inn’t? Say feminism is a crock.
BTW, I notice you’ve not responded to my observations on women wanting men to pay for dates merely being an example of those women acting in an Objecivist manner, and as such unobjectionable to any rational Objectivist.
Morkai: The actual gist of it makes the Martial Arts comment more reprehensible, IMO.
1: She should take martial arts so she will be more confident, and able to defend herself.
2: It will teach her that being his isn’t that bad.
3: She is also supposed to refrain from using the training to defend herself from him hitting her.
Which means him hitting her isn’t something she is supposed to see as wrong. It’s not something to defend oneself against. She is supposed to embrace is as some sort of proper behavior, loving even.
That’s fucked up.
Yeah, I agree. The gist I got was that she’s supposed to embrace being hit every so often so their men don’t ‘completely lose control of their emotions.’
That is, AIUI and as has been commented on quite extensively, straight-up abuser logic. Accept a little abuse to avoid something much, much worse.
NWO, pull up your pants, your ass is showing. Feminists critique certain practices of many religions. Right now Feministe is talking about a particular Jewish ritual. Others have spoken on Hinduism. There’s a site where Muslim women discuss their religious practices and feminism. Athiest feminists have a great deal to say about the atheist community.
You come here and say far more offensive and personal things about individual people here. Knock that off and perhaps we’ll consider being more considerate of your feelings about taking the lords name in vain.
NWO: Aw…. did it hurt your fee-fees?
Yes, I said, “Sweet suffering Jesus on a pogo stick”
I said it, not because I (who idendtify, as you keep conveniently forgetting, as a Catholic) hate the Jeebus, but because I don’t.
I don’t say, “Overburdened Ganesha”, or “Malevolent Tengu in a Tree” Because those images don’t, to me, have any power of showing how incredibly fucked up I find this.
That phrase, the suffering of Jesus, amplified by the ridiculousness of the situation (i.e. the pogo stick), is meant to evoke just how fucked up I find the arguments in that post.
But if you’d like, if you want to be offended:
Whip-wielding cunltlapping Christ but you are a whiney asshole, you malevolent pederastic, rape-loving, child-leering, woman-hating, reactionary throwback; drooling after a past that never was…. When the Day of Judgement Comes I want my last moments, before my personal moments at the Balance of Heaven, where my sins and follies are measured against the goods and ills I’ve done; when I have to see if the feather of Ma’at weighs more than my heart; those last moments before my judgement… I want to see you in front of St. Peter, when Jesus, in all His glory is separating the wheat from the chaff, and the sheep from the goats…. Christ on a fucking crutch do I want to see that.
NWO: Pastafarians routinely say “Flying Spaghetti Monster, bolognese sauce be upon him.” Does that count as mocking a religion that’s not Christianity?
So, my sister is a Marine.
*This is my stock response to male supremecist apologia about DV, fwiw.
She was 19 when she enlisted, mostly to get away from her boyfriend at the time. He pressured her into getting married and she caved a week before she shipped out. He was also a (former) Marine, disabled vet. Broke his leg doing PT in the hills of Southern Cali while Desert Storm was raging. Had been out for several years. She, like a typical teenager, figured wtf if it shut him up til she shipped out. And she figured the ring would keep other dudes off her case. (And it did, to the extent dudes will get off any non-male’s case when they feel entitled to access her vagina, and for the rest, there’s another funny story about the time she was standing in line at a club near Twenty-nine Palms with her buddy Misty, and a dude would not take “no thank you I’m married” for an answer, and grabbed her cute little ass, and she force-collapsed his chest and left him wheezing on the pavement.)
So she came back from basic at Parris Island, where all the females go, and he’d set up an apartment in town. Marital bliss for like a week, then they get into a fight.
He took a swing at her.
She beat the ever-loving fuck out of him.
Then she shipped out on the destroyer, like all Marines, to do her tour on the ship.
When she got back from six months overseas, it happened again. He took a swing at her.
She beat the ever-loving fuck out of him. Again.
Then she called a lawyer.
The end.
Her current husband is also a Marine – they were trench buddies during the war. Her job was combat communications (she ran around on the battlefield with a radio on her back.) So she did a lot of tours – North Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan. She was his commanding officer. Both of them still have all their limbs.
Her first husband was taught in the Marines that the only difference between a Marine and a Lady Marine is, she pees sitting down. But when it came to his sense of entitlement to physically enforce his will over hers, he was fundamentally incapable of perceiving her as a physical threat to him. It damn near killed him. Guess he should have thought of that before he picked a fist-fight with an active duty Marine?
GWW should call my sister. 113 different cures for these imbeciles before she needs a weapon.
Im curious, would the story be different if the woman slapped was her…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronda_Rousey
Not all women are created equal. 😉
GWW is a genius. Only she could figure out an upside to domestic violence, that men could have mind blowing sex. I should have known. That makes it all better, now doesn’t it.
@nwoslave
Sweet Mohammed juggling on a unicycle!
By the smelly toes of Buddha!
By the scraggly beard of Abraham!
Sweet Vishnu juggling three cows and a monkey!
By the mole on Izanami’s nose!
By Odin’s mediocre baton-twirling!
By Zeus’s unwashed toga!
I await the inevitable anger that is sure to be directed at me for this horrible ridicule I have inflicted on other faiths.
I really must protest the use of Thor and his mediocre baton twirling!!!
Surely you realize that was his knitting needles?!
Thor?
Odin, Thor…its hard to keep all these self important smiting beings straight okay?
Really, all I have to see is something powerful enough to zorch me and I’m opening a dimensional portal to “outta here!”
And now I’m gonna have to really watch it. Thors a little self concious about the knitting thing.
Erm…think I’m going to find a dark pit to lay low in for a while.
I say old chap, most unkind!!! This sort of behaviour cannot be condoned by any civilized feminist space and I must ask that you cease and desist post haste! Now, about those christians, stop me if you’ve heard this one.
In any case I’ll bet either of their knitting needles would enchanted as fuck.
Well, thor does knit the prettiest afghans!
…Made of Mithril….
I am confuzzled. Are we knitting with Mjolnir, or is this the upgrade?
Did he knit that??? –> http://thefilmexperience.net/storage/thor%20hats.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1304368189270 :O
@shadow
A pastor, a pastor and a pastor walk into a bar…
No no, he does his crochet with Mjolnir. Diff’ thing altogether.