Oh, Reddit, where the demographics are so skewed that virtually every discussion amongst and/or about women ultimately gets taken over by dudes doing the old “what about the dudes” routine. It’s no secret that the TwoXChromosomes subreddit has long been overrun with MRAs and FeMRAs. And now it’s become pretty clear that the Feminism subreddit has gone MRA as well.
If you want all the details of the drama, here’s a thread in the subreddit in which the feminists who’ve stuck with the subreddit take on the MRAs and MRA-symps amongst the mods.
Check out the Feminisms and SRSWomen subreddits if you want to discuss feministy stuff on Reddit without having to deal with endless derailing from MRAs and other shitlords.
EDITED TO ADD: More links:
SRS takes on the whole mess (lots of useful links).
SRS links to r/feminism mods defending MRAs
An r/feminism thread about the recent Captain Awkward posts about creeps that is, naturally, full of endless hang-wringing about the evils of “creep-shaming.”
(Thanks, Cliff, for the links.)
Om Nom: nope, I don’t have to like anyone. And really, how many people who aren’t teenagers call someone creepy because they’re not attracted to them? That excuse from MRAs is bullshit. Maybe you’re unattractive because you’re creepy.
Oh boy, I hope NWO makes good on his threat to read Ayn Rand. We can add “Randroid” to his list of kook credentials.
CROSSES FINGERS
@Wordspinner, I actually got a letter of mine posted on Captain Awkward, I still have to go back and read most of the comments, I’ve been really busy getting ready for university lately I’ve hardly had the chance yet, but from what I have said so far, they’ve been giving me some incredibly sound and well thought out advice on how to cope with my AS.
Also, the only way /r/feminism is going to get better is if some well-regarded feminist requests a takeover of the sub here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/
Dear Angry Dudes Complaining About “Creep-Shaming”:
You should feel shame. At the very least, you should be politely embarrassed to learn that your behavior makes people uncomfortable and afraid. If you instead respond by getting all huffy and demanding that people keep their discomfort to themselves, you need some kind of remedial Being a Human class.
It’s particularly…well, creepy…to see guys complaining about the Captain Awkward posts, because those were very, very much not cases of innocent Aspergery woobies who just didn’t grok social cues. They were aggressive harassers who had scared all the women in their social circles away with relentlessly obnoxious behavior, including one serial rapist. Oh, but won’t someone think of the poor rapist’s feelings? If a girl called him creepy, he could be sad!
And honestly, and I’m saying this as someone who’s not quite neurotypical herself: if you have trouble with social skills, fucking learn. An Asperger’s diagnosis is not a free pass to be an asshole.
Love,
Shaenon
I would bet a horse that the Boobz King didn’t expect anyone to actually follow his links – gullible as his commentariat is. However, a quick check reveals that really, acknowledging men’s issues at all qualifies a space as “taken over by MRAs”. In other words, in Boobzspeak, only misandry of the highest order is “feminist”. Quite revealing, I should say.
i’m not reading reddit because yaaaaaawwwn, but i cant see any possible reason for believing serial liar mikey varpole’s claims on this point
I would bet a horse that the Boobz King didn’t expect anyone to actually follow his links – gullible as his commentariat is. However, a quick check reveals that really, acknowledging men’s issues at all qualifies a space as “taken over by MRAs”. In other words, in Boobzspeak, only misandry of the highest order is “feminist”. Quite revealing, I should say.
Well, if Steele says it, then it must be true. It’s not like he’s ever been wrong about anything before.
Oh shut up, Butthorn.
@Semi-SteeleHornPole, To bet a horse you have to have a horse. Do you have a horse, punk?
I’ll bet a horse that Steele’s fallback position is “well, okay, actually the links do say what he claimed, but I bet you never checked that!”
excuse me vile jester’s fool
Also, come check out r/SRSFeminism!
(and thanks for posting on this – it’s been a ridiculous couple of days)
Incorrect on both counts. There are some environments in which one might be forced to tolerate the presence of people whom one finds repulsive or who make one uncomfortable, but there is no reason why one has to learn to get along with them in general. People always have the right to walk away from those whose company they do not enjoy, for whatever reason they choose, even if other people think it’s a stupid reason.
You have this odd (and consistent) idea that in a situation where person A is making person B uncomfortable it’s always person A’s responsibility to just live with the discomfort, and not hurt person B’s feelings by telling them to stop whatever they’re doing to cause the discomfort, avoiding them, etc. This is not how the world actually works, nor is it how the world should work. If you find that you’re consistently making other people uncomfortable then it’s your responsibility to either fix that problem via changes in your own behavior or just accept that that’s how things are going to be.
@Cassandra
Nice.
Steele, would you do me a favour and call someone “sirrah”* in your next post? It would really make me smile,** and as you’re already kind of maxed out on the whole “being a pompous jackass with delusions of eloquence” thing, you may as well push the envelope.
* Also acceptable: “vagabond” and “whey-faced poultroon”.
** Or even chortle!
Please add /r/SRSMen (http://www.SRSMen.reddit.com) as a safe space to discuss male feminism and pro-feminism on Reddit… it’s a great resource
And if women did take the shootings as a lesson to give up more pussy and started to do so, these same posters would be on about how slutty women are and bemoan the lack of “pure, chaste, and virtuous” women. It’s a lose/lose situation.
@aworldanaonymous: chiming in a bit late to send good wishes, and a few stories! I am in my late fifties, so there was no understanding of Asperger’s or the autism spectrum when I was growing up, but my mother and partner strongly suspect (their observations only–after Newsweek did a big article a few years back, my mother sent it to me with a note saying “THIS IS YOU”) I may be on the Asperger’s part of the spectrum–I hope to find time this year to track down the diagnostician on campus and see if I can get at least some minimal testing. It’s important for me to have that on the record and write about it, if it’s true, because of the problems I had in the early days of teaching (by early days I mean my first five-seven years ahahah).
See, I cannot TELL by looking at a face/face class whether or not they’ve gotten what I’ve just covered. It was an incredible series of frustrations –and one among many others reasons I went online (I still get snarky at my colleagues who are all “I cannot tell if they have learned it unless I can see their faces!”. Well whoo hoo for them: I cannot tell until I read the paper or whatever). Add in the tendency of students not to want to ask questions, and my inability to read their faces/body language (I finally in desperation started sending around pads of paper for questions, or having them write logs every day for attendance credit with questions, and that began to work). Since I’m a woman, I was probably perceived differently than a man–but I can say that I was mostly shunned and dismissed in junior high and high school, perceved as weird and icky and teacher’s pet and arrogant and all that fun stuff, and have had ongoing stunning blowups and problems as a teacher–less often now because I’ve analyzed and worked out what to do based on those problems. It can be hard not to fall into obsessive recycling of problems which can contribute to depression (I also have cyclical biochemical depression diagnosed fairly late in life), but if one can do some analysis of problems and come up with different behaviors, it can help (I benefitted from having the observations of students and colleagues who observed me in class), and I have improved over time.
When I was in my teens/twenties, I had major problems communicating–mostly along the “I will walk up to you and start orating at great length about the issue we last talked about without taking time to say hello or how are you because what a waste of time!” I know people thought I was weird! I’m still described as a tidal wave based on my ability to monologue at length and apparently without drawing a breath (though it’s sometimes excused as teacher behavior!) I’m also very shy in groups/around strangers — and introverted — and also still find ‘small talk’ a bally waste of time though I can do it when needed. There was other stuff, but I won’t bore on about it.
I did find college better than high school; and graduate school even better.
Oddly enough, something that helped me the most was taking a basic acting class (which I did in graduate school–after I began to get into playwriting). If you accept the theory that people perform in daily life, then acting gives you basic tools for understanding performance and communication (plus it helped me learn how to project for lectures!). My class also did some basic yoga and movement stuff–it was fun (I only got a C in it, but oh well!), and educational, and I sometimes think all teachers should have an acting class or two! Plus, a lot of theatre people are pretty extroverted and love having someone around to talk to!
Good luck in your first year!
And if any women who did take up with men who say “give me pussy or I’ll shoot people”, and found themselves in a shitty situation (someone who threatens to shoot people over sex is probably going to be dangerous and unstable) these posters would either say that “she shouldn’t have dated him” or worse, “she deserves it”. Even though the reason anyone would have sex with someone who threatened to kill people if they didn’t have sex would be to stop other innocent people being killed. And if the man in question did shoot up a public place (likely), she’d be blamed as well.
They just want an excuse to be horrible people and shit on everyone else, and women in specific.
@Shaenon
“Dear Angry Dudes Complaining About “Creep-Shaming”:
You should feel shame.”
Dear Angry sluts Complaining About “Slut-Shaming”:
You should feel shame, because you’re acting shamefully.
@Cliff Pervocracy
“This is splitting a pretty small hair, NWO. “I don’t hate you because you’re a woman! I hate you because you’re a woman and women are terrible!”
I didn’t say hate, I said ridicule. You said hate so you could claim victimhood and misogyny. That’s why I ridicule you, you’ve said something ridiculous once again.
————
“If both parties are drunk, but one party initiates sex and the other doesn’t, then no, it is not exactly the same on both sides. Initiating sex is something a person (even drunk) chose to do. “Having someone else initiate sex” is obviously not a choice.”
It doesn’t matter who initiates. Consent is consent. Someone has to intitiate. It’s impossible for both parties to intitiae at the exact same point in time. You deserve to be ridiculed.
————
“Actually, both of their feelings are correct! The woman feels afraid, and this is real–the man feels not afraid, and this is real!”
Wrong again, if the woman feels afraid for no reason than her feelings are incorrect. Man to talks to woman in an elevator and she feels afraid. She walks out of elevator and goes safely to her room, (rebecca the bitch watson). Her feelings were wrong. Feelings are not reality. You and her deserve to be ridiculed.
———–
“When I say “dude is creepy,” it’s not always because I have his best interests at heart and want to help him learn and grow. I may just want him to keep his creepery the hell away from me and mine.”
You just want to be able to insult a man at your leisure is all. Carte blanche to insult men while demanding women never be insulted. You are begging to be ridiculed. I’m happy to oblige.
————
“Nope! I have to get along with those people sometimes for school/work/family purposes, but I do not have to get along with them just for the sake of getting along with someone!
In social situations, I can ignore anyone I like for any reason I like! Even bad wrong reasons! Even no good reason at all! This is called being an independent human being!’
Holly, you’re all over the place. I said pretty much the same about everyone of the LGBT, yet you tell me I’m a homophobe/bigot. If I can’t think or say anything of the sort about gays, you can’t think or say anything about anyone elses opinion or actions either. You’re acting quite ridiculous.
————–
This is why women are ridiculed. It’s hatred or misogyny. It’s simply ridiculing the ridiculousness of women logic.
Acting class may be a good idea there – I took drama at school mostly for confidence, but yeah, I not infrequently perform the role of functioning member of society, and I can imagine it helping.
You know, I feel like we need a dramatic reading of the Big Book of Larnin or something. NWO’s just so painfully dull lately. Remember the days when he was entertaining?
Hey Owly, is Ayn Rand a Marxist? Here she is being critical of Christianity:
http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/texts/jesus.html
LOL. Oh noes everybody!! There are places on the interwebz where people’s primary focus is on problems that relate more to women! We must reclaim those spaces to acknowledge the menz and their suffering peens!
A quick check reveals that really, if you want to acknowledge men’s issues, you have the whole rest of the internet to do it on. Contrary to popular troll belief, feminists do not control the interwebz. Not by a long shot.