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Hey, MRAs: If you don’t want people to associate you with hatred, don’t associate yourself with hate groups

MRAs: digging their own hole.

Here’s a bit of advice for Men’s Rights redditors and MRAs in general: if you don’t want people to associate the Men’s Rights movement with hatred, you should probably not associate yourselves with hate groups.

Yesterday, a fellow called heiligenschein posted a link in the Men’s Rights subreddit to a relatively new subreddit called simply SPLC, a subreddit set up by enemies of the Southern Poverty Law Center and devoted to, as heiligenschein put it, “compiling the numerous criticisms of the [SPLC].” As he explained in a comment:

That’s a somewhat odd criticism for heiligenschein, one of the moderators of the SPLC subreddit, to make. If you look at the front page of this subreddit, you’ll discover that he and his pals are already doing a fine job of associating themselves with “neo nazi nutters” all by themselves.

If you scroll through the links, you’ll notice that Heiligenschein has posted links to several different articles from VDare.com, which the SPLC describes as an “anti-immigration hate website” which “regularly publishes articles by prominent white nationalists, race scientists and anti-Semites.” Note to MRAs: if you’re disinclined to take the word of the SPLC on anything, all you need to do to get a sense of VDare’s genteel racism is to do a search on the site for, well, the word “racism,” or “immigrant.” Or you can read VDare founder Peter Brimelow’s repulsive victim-blaming post on the “root causes” of the Sikh temple murders in Wisconsin.

Heiligenschein  also links to the virulently anti-immigrant American Patrol Report and a Confederacy-loving group called the Georgia Heritage Council; a quick glance at either group’s website will reveal what sort of organizations these are. He also links to a pretty hateful site called A Voice for Men, which some of you may have heard of already.

But the connection to the racist far-right goes beyond a couple of links. The five other moderators of the r/splc subreddit – mayonesa, dvance, Octuple, salsaverde, warkin – are also the moderators of reddit’s race-obsessed “new right” subreddit. Some of the submissions in that subreddit at the moment:

18% of marriages by Chinese and Japanese Americans are to Jews. Thoughts?

The poison of multiculturalism

USA Olympic athlete waves Mex flag: propaganda-bearing parasite prole being used as an infectious agent by the master parasite class?

The not-so-fab five also moderate a smaller subreddit called “alternative right,” a dog-whistle term amongst the far right for (pseudo) intellectual racism and so-called “human biological diversity.” Some of the submissions there, all of them submitted by moderator Mayonesa:

Emo neckbeards having hategasm over pro-white flyer

“I believe Europe to be the ‘white man’s country’. If they don’t want non-whites among them, I think it’s fair.”

Diversity perversity: Behind multicultural push is effort to degrade American culture

The West has been seriously damaged by Communist successes at memetic subversion.

The five run at least two more subreddits devoted to this kind of crap.

Just so you know, MRAs, these are the sort of people you end up hanging out with once you join the SPLC anti-fan club.

Naturally, the handful of comments I found in the r/mensrights discussion on the subject pointing out that the r/splc moderators were a bunch of race-obsessed far-right extremists — see here, here, and here —  all got downvotes from the regulars there.

You’re digging your own hole here, MRAs.

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Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

Also why is Necroing bad? Aren’t these things as relevant now as them were then?

But… Your post had nothing whatsoever to do with David’s post.

David’s post was about MRAs/Nazis sulking about being noticed by the SPLC. Your post was the same boring “I’m not an MRA but MRAs and feminists are exactly the same, also you’re all silly emotional wimminz” crap we get ten times a week. It could have been squeezed out on any more recent post and been just as “Relevant.”

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

Wait. Is this Mad Cow again?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@SFHC

If we see a twenty page essay about how wrong we are then probably yes.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Thatonegirl | July 12, 2015 at 9:24 pm
Oh no Rape Culture is real it’s just not perpetuated by fiction and BDSM enthusiasts. Also I can’t see your pic Pandapool.

comment image?w=474&h=266

Yeah, 50 Shades of Grey is a best-seller. In the first book (sixteenth chapter to be specific), Christian Grey breaks into Ana’s home and rapes her into submission because she said (by way of a joke) that she didn’t want to continue the relationship.

And this book is a “worldwide phenomenon”, and has a movie made about it. Nope, no rape being put in a positive light and victims being shoved aside and blamed in our culture!

I do agree that BDSM enthusiasts (being one myself) try our best not to perpetuate the cycle. But the pornos for that genre aren’t helping. At all.

Hysterical and Histrionic are two different things I fail to see how I would use them interchangeably.

“How do dictionaries work?”

Also why is Necroing bad? Aren’t these things as relevant now as them were then?

Because you don’t walk into a two year old conversation to add your two cents, especially when those two cents aren’t even remotely related to what the conversation about it.

You walked into a thread about MRAs being on the SPLC’s watchlist, and you went off about how apparently feminists are totes the same, but feminists are being “histrionic” about “fantasy” (in other words, you said we make shit up, way to prove that you’re not an MRA). And you got this information from “MRA allies”, who must be totally trustworthy about feminism and what they’re doing wrong! (You want to know what feminism’s doing wrong? Talk to a bunch of feminists. We got that shit on lock.)

That’s like you see two people having a conversation about their favorite books at a party, and then you see them two years later, and you bring up that conversation they had about books, and then add “I like cheese!” on the end. Congrats, you dredged up old conversations that were long forgotten and moved on from, and you’ve proven you can’t hold on to a train of thought.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Goddamnit Embed mammoth.
comment image

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

No Hysterical is deep emotion brought on by fear or anger. Like I get hysterical when it’s two weeks to the exam and I don’t know anything. Histrionic is the rewriting of a situation to suit your interest. Like I rewrite my intentions leading up to the exam: “It’s not my fault the exam is on in two weeks they should make it later so I have more time to study” this of course completely ignores the fact that I did have time to study and didn’t use it.

As to what my post has to do with the article above. Mainly I was point out that just because MRA’s are corrupt hatefilled hypocrites. Doesn’t mean that eveyone who objects to feminism objects for the same reason.

I didn’t say it very well but I don’t know how else to say it.

If that’s not related enough then I’m sorry I thought it was.

Also madcow? Please, I know you think I’m stupid and to be made fun of. But would you at least acknowledge me as my own stupid thing to be made fun of? And not someone else.

I have an IMVU account I can give the username if you would like to reach me with an online presence more solid than a post to a blog? Would that help?

Catalpa
Catalpa
6 years ago

I prefer to believe that thatonegirl’s post meant:

MRAs are people who get unreasonably and unmeritedly upset about real life things, like women attempting to maintain bodily and financial autonomy from entitled dudebros who want them to remain objects that exist only at their pleasure.

When feminists are portrayed as getting stupidly and unnreasonably upset about things, it tends to be farcial in nature, like believing that feminists are gnashing their teeth and wailing about MGTOWs (never actually) going their own way.

Hush, leave me to my happy fantasy. I’m a feminist so I’m allowed to get upset about people ruining it.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Histrionic is the rewriting of a situation to suit your interest.

I have never seen this definition of histrionic anywhere before. You can’t just make up your own definitions for words and except us to know what you’re talking about.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

Also no they aren’t more trustworthy than Feminists but they are what they are which is why I mentioned what they were.

If you have that “shit on lockdown” give it to me. Do you think I enjoy having to slog through needless insults against my gender just to try and find a balanced perspective of what’s going on? I’d much rather read or watch something that just gave me the information.

My inability to hold an online discussion does not necessarily reflect my actual thought process nor is it a permanent mark against me.

Also a comment section is not one long conversation. Hence why I don’t agree with the Necro-shaming in comment sections, I do agree with it in threads however because threads usually do resemble one long conversation.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

The histrionic definition is implied in Histrionic Personality disorder.
Where the person often rewrites situations to shirk responsibility or deny analyzing their feelings too deeply. If you haven’t heard it used that way then you clearly don’t hang out with enough psychiatrists.

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

You said that their ‘histrionics’ are grounded in reality while the ‘histrionics’ of feminists are grounded in fantasy. Please clarify this statement.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@Thatonegirl

We have clear rules against using ableist language in the Welcome Package plus almost every thread has a discussion about someone using ableist language and how we DON’T do that, so why would use “histrionic” when we have clear rules AGAINST that?

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

I mean that MRA’s rewrite Facts about reality i.e. the whole “women and children first thing” they take one example and twist it to apply to all examples. Or they rewrite the narrative of abuse so that the victim is to blame.

Where as Feminists rewrite Facts about fiction i.e. they think the Drow in D&D were placed there to validate the fears of the thousands of racist misogynist men that play D&D.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

It is not ablest to use Histrionic unlike retard or autistic Histrionics psychological definition has roots in it’s real definition. Perhaps you’d also like to stop using narcissism?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

Where as Feminists rewrite Facts about fiction i.e. they think the Drow in D&D were placed there to validate the fears of the thousands of racist misogynist men that play D&D.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/confused_lion_king.gif

I…what? I have never heard this, like, ever?

And, like, still, why the ableist language? Couldn’t you have rephrase what you said, you know, better the first time rather than using an awkwardly placed word twice to describe two different things using the same adjective? It seems that WASN’T what you’re saying.

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

Ohhh okay, yes, I get it, you know nothing about feminism or MRAs. Got it.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

I saw that comment on Fangs For Fantasy a feminist/social justice blog that focuses on urban fantasy.

So you’re saying that MRA’s don’t twist the truth so that female abuse victims are dismissed as complicit in their own abuse?

Am I understanding you correctly isidore13?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@Thatonegirl

Can I get a link?

And, you know, you still haven’t address your usage of the word “histrionic”, like, at all.

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

I’m saying MRAs do not live in reality in any sense.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

One comment on a niche blog most of the world hasn’t heard of is indicative of feminists being histrionic?

I know this gif is overused, but I think it applies.
http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2013/08/14/jennifer-lawrence-10.gif

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

Sorry, let me be more clear: Nothing MRAs believe or espouse about women is based in reality in any way.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

I saw that comment on Fangs For Fantasy a feminist/social justice blog that focuses on urban fantasy.

TIL: One feminist/social justice blog saying something = ALL OF FEMINISM AGREES

In other words, you’re taking the words of one blog and saying they represent all of us, thus, trying to misrepresent us as having a hive-mind. Okay, got it.

Now to address what you said to me directly:

Also a comment section is not one long conversation. Hence why I don’t agree with the Necro-shaming in comment sections, I do agree with it in threads however because threads usually do resemble one long conversation.

“Necro-shaming”? How rude. We don’t talk ill of the dead here. The last thing we need is to bring down ghostly wrath upon our computers and phones.

Also, yes, a comment section is one long conversation. Also, if no one has posted there in two years, it means that we’ve moved on. It’s polite to continue the conversation elsewhere instead of bringing old topics to the front because you wanted to ramble at us.

You could have posted that question on someone else’s forum, or even in another, more recent, thread considering it wasn’t even on topic. At least if you posted that in one of the more recent threads, we’d only get on you for derailing, not necroing.

If you have that “shit on lockdown” give it to me.

I normally don’t like explaining Feminist 101 shit to a person who claims to be a feminist (and who didn’t even say “please”. Fucking rude.) and I would tell them to fuck off and go do their own homework, but I’ll make an exception for you because I’m in a semi-good mood. Aren’t you a special little cookie?

There’s one simple, overarching, but still rather complicated idea where most feminists can agree that feminism fails: A lack of intersectionality.

There’s a lot of talk about “White Feminism”, which refers to feminist ideas that only benefit able-bodied, cishet, middle-to-upper class white women, and shuns everyone else. This is no better than what MRAs are trying to do, in most respects. There’s also Radfems who are discriminatory against transwomen or women who do sex work, and there’s also so-called “feminists” who are racist, classist, or even discriminate based on sexual orientation or religion.

There’s a lot of feminism out there that shuns or outright discriminates against other women who should be their allies: transwomen, women of color, LGBTQA+ women, poor women, women who are of different faiths, women with mental illnesses, disabled women, sex worker women, fat women etc.

There’s a lot of different groups of feminists of all sorts of backgrounds, so there’s a lot of different ideas swirling around. It is possible (and this does happen) that some feminists are discriminatory against women who may not be in the same privileged class that they are.

Intersectional feminists (such as myself, and a few others on this site) try to bring to mind that there are women out there who do need to think about their own privileges when discussing matters of feminism.

For instance, I’m white, cisgendered, and lower middle-class. Thus, I have some privilege over other women who are women of color, transwomen, and women who are homeless. But, I’m still disadvantaged when compared to some women because I have mental illnesses and I’m queer. However, I use my privilege to speak up in spaces where the voices of people who don’t share that privilege cannot be heard. For instance, I call out other white people for being racist.

Some people have solved this issue by stepping out and creating their own spaces that have feminist principles, but aren’t feminist. For instance: Womanism was created by black women to deal with the racism of feminism.

Now, some other problems that people claim feminism has:

“Feminism doesn’t help men!”
Feminism actually does help men. A lot.

However, I find that people who make this kind of statement (usually MRAs or other anti-feminists) usually mean that feminism isn’t dropping everything to work on their particular pet problems right now, thus, we aren’t doing anything, and thus, feminism “isn’t needed”.

“Feminism wants women to be better than men!”
Considering that there are studies proving that whenever a man and a woman are given equal time to speak, both the woman and the man think the woman talked more, I think this sentiment is just silly and petty.

People who see this see women as getting equal treatment as women getting better treatment, despite the fact that women have been consistently discriminated against.

“Feminists hate men!”
Considering that the person who writes this blog is a man, and there are several male regulars here, I’d say that’s pretty false.

There are women out there who don’t like to associate with men (I used to be one of them due to trauma), and that should be respected, but it’s not true of feminism as a whole.

“Feminists want to stifle my free speech!”
Feminists aren’t the government. We aren’t part of some secret cabal to take things away from you. We just don’t think you should be allowed to use your FREEZE PEACH to talk down to women and get away with it. Or, at the very least, we shouldn’t have to put up with it.
_____________________________

Alright, I think that’s good for Feminist 101 for now. I’m sure if you dug into some more feminist blogs you could find some more critiques, both valid and invalid.

Do you think I enjoy having to slog through needless insults against my gender just to try and find a balanced perspective of what’s going on? I’d much rather read or watch something that just gave me the information.

What are you even referring to here? MRA sites?

One, you do that to yourself. There’s plenty of feminist sites and feminists with an online presence that critique feminism and ideas that stem from feminism and other feminists. It’s not our fault you couldn’t find them. Improve your Google-Fu.

Two, what, you don’t think we do that too? Do you not know what this site is for? Says so right in the tagline: “The new misogyny, tracked and mocked”.

We mock misogyny. We track misogyny. We hear MRA shit all the time.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

Intersectional feminists (such as myself, and a few others on this site)

I’m pretty pretty sure instead of “a few others” you meant “everyone” because I doubt there’s one person here that doesn’t like intersectionalism.

And if there is…

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/amy_angry.gif

sevenofmine
6 years ago

Necro-shaming

Just when you think these people couldn’t get any more ludicrous.

HOW DARE YOU HAVE STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND EXPECT EVEN ME TO ABIDE BY THEM!!!!

arglbargl, etc.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

1. I do know what this site is for, I agree with what this site is for to an extent. What I don’t agree with is static opinions. I admit I can be pedantic when it comes to balancing the scales, even out of place or out of turn. Something I have already apologised for.

2. Yes Necro-shaming don’t act like your special sevenofmine it’s a perfectly legitimate name for a tendency on the internet that in my opinion shouldn’t exist. You can have standards of behaviour for your community but I’m allowed to think those standards SUCK.

3. Feminism can help men, never said it couldn’t but if the standards of analysis on Fangs For Fantasy are any indication what it can’t help is fiction.

4. These people? Do you often force everyone who does not share your opinion into one easily dismissed bracket?

5. Using Histrionic is not ableism. If you’re like me and grow up with a psychiatrist mother and a father who actually is frequently histrionic (though not hpd) your going to pick up that sort of vocabulary and your going to use it the way it’s been used in front of you.

So 😛 to you sevenofmine, isodore13, the pandapool, weirdwoodtreehugger, paradoxical intention and you’re dogpilling comments, melodramatic gifs and general inability to treat an individual with an opinion like an individual with an opinion.

here’s a link to Fangs For Fantasy http://www.fangsforthefantasy.com/2012/08/reverse-oppression-fad-that-needs-to-end.html the article is okay though, I wish they wouldn’t over generalise EVERYTHING. Cause it makes it easy to put x-men into the same category as that one book where heterosexuality is homosexuality because why not?

There’s a distinction between the first and the second example, one that I don’t think the article makes apparent or really understands.

Never said all feminists agree but enough agree with this mindset that I worry for where it might end up going. My worry over it is one of the main reasons I look for opinions that speak counter to it so far most of those opinions are also anti-feminist. If you know of more nuanced of these ideas I’d actually like it if you could link me.

I asked for you to show me before but since you didn’t…I linked you right so it’s only fair if you share?

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Pandapool — The Species that Endangers YOU | July 13, 2015 at 12:43 am
I’m pretty pretty sure instead of “a few others” you meant “everyone” because I doubt there’s one person here that doesn’t like intersectionalism.

And if there is…

I couldn’t speak for everyone, so I worded it like that. I do agree though, we should all be intersectional.

Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 1:45 am
1. I do know what this site is for, I agree with what this site is for to an extent. What I don’t agree with is static opinions. I admit I can be pedantic when it comes to balancing the scales, even out of place or out of turn. Something I have already apologised for.

I didn’t see an apology.

2. Yes Necro-shaming don’t act like your special sevenofmine it’s a perfectly legitimate name for a tendency on the internet that in my opinion shouldn’t exist. You can have standards of behaviour for your community but I’m allowed to think those standards SUCK.

If you think our standards suck, don’t fucking post here, simple as that. If you don’t think those standards shouldn’t exist, feel free to start your own website.

WordPress has a free option. Feel free to use it.

When you post on someone else’s website/blog/whatever, you are agreeing to follow their rules. Don’t follow them, out on your ass, sometimes with mockery. Simple as that. If you can’t follow the rules of someone else’s blog (Which are there for a reason), then don’t get pissy that they’re there when you’re called out for not following them.

3. Feminism can help men, never said it couldn’t but if the standards of analysis on Fangs For Fantasy are any indication what it can’t help is fiction.

You asked for the problems of feminism, I addressed some common criticisms.

I also addressed that one blog =/= all of feminism. One blog is one blog. It can be one or more people with opinions, but at the end of the day, they still don’t represent all of feminism.

If you don’t like your fiction to be feminist, that’s your preference. I fail to see why one blog that none of us have ever heard of should really impact our preferences at all.

Lots of us like fiction, and would like to see it become a little more inclusive. So, we analyze and see where others have failed to do so, and learn from that. Surprise! Some of us love to critique media we consume.

Again, you’re getting off topic and going on another train of thought.

4. These people? Do you often force everyone who does not share your opinion into one easily dismissed bracket?

When “these people” are the ones not following the rules, sure.

5. Using Histrionic is not ableism. If you’re like me and grow up with a psychiatrist mother and a father who actually is frequently histrionic (though not hpd) your going to pick up that sort of vocabulary and your going to use it the way it’s been used in front of you.

“It’s not my fault that I’m using ableist language, my parents do! I’m not required to take responsibility for my own actions and I’m certainly not going to learn and grow and become a better person! So what I’m saying isn’t ableist because I said so, and my mom’s totally a psychiatrist and you should totally buy that even though it has no bearing on the conversation and I appear to be using it as a convenient out!”

So 😛 to you sevenofmine, isodore13, the pandapool, weirdwoodtreehugger, paradoxical intention and you’re dogpilling comments, melodramatic gifs and general inability to treat an individual with an opinion like an individual with an opinion.

L O Fuckin’ L.

Like we’re not “individuals with opinions” that manage to get along just fine. Perhaps it’s just you, cookie?

here’s a link to Fangs For Fantasy http://www.fangsforthefantasy.com/2012/08/reverse-oppression-fad-that-needs-to-end.html the article is okay though, I wish they wouldn’t over generalise EVERYTHING. Cause it makes it easy to put x-men into the same category as that one book where heterosexuality is homosexuality because why not?

There’s a distinction between the first and the second example, one that I don’t think the article makes apparent or really understands.

I agree with a lot of their points actually, though I can see why there’s a lot of this “reverse discrimination” stuff out there. It is making an attempt to get privileged people empathize with those people who they might not.

However, I do feel like it is a token gesture, and the fact that those “reverse discrimination” things getting more attention than literature by oppressed groups is really not cool.

Never said all feminists agree but enough agree with this mindset that I worry for where it might end up going. My worry over it is one of the main reasons I look for opinions that speak counter to it so far most of those opinions are also anti-feminist. If you know of more nuanced of these ideas I’d actually like it if you could link me.

I asked for you to show me before but since you didn’t…I linked you right so it’s only fair if you share?

I straight up told you what the problems were, and now you want me to do your Google work for you? Hell no. You do your own feminist 101 homework, rude one. Go find a feminist who actually wants to teach instead of wasting the time of other people who aren’t here to get you up to speed on basic shit. Not every feminist is here to teach you, and we don’t owe you anything.

Why should I be going and fetching links for you after you broke the rules and accused us of “dogpiling” on you because you broke the rules and got snide when called out for it? I got anime to watch, and I already gave you a huge teal deer about the problems on feminism.

I don’t owe you links to anything. All you gave us was one link to one blog that you claim is representative of all feminism’s opinions on fiction, which, again, it isn’t.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Hey, cookie!

If you want a link, here’s one you might find interesting.

And here’s a good snippet:

Not everyone who talks about Social Justice Things online is doing it for the purpose of educating others.
A common assumption made by those who ask these basic-level questions if that if someone is blogging or tweeting about social justice, they are there to educate. Here’s the thing, though–for some of us, it’s just our daily lives, and we share them with each other because it brings us comfort and connection. If I post a tweet about how I’m really shaken up after a guy followed me down the block screaming sexual obscenities, some men may see this as an invitation to ask me why this is harassment or what the guy should’ve done instead or how exactly I suggest we fix this problem, just throw all the men in jail or what? But I wasn’t posting to educate. I was posting because I’d just gone through a traumatic experience and wanted people to know what I was dealing with and support me.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

1. It’s not nor will it ever be ableist language. My mother used it CORRECTLY that is why I gave the example.
2. I never said it was indicative of all opinions you are arguing with a strawman.I said it’s all I had been able to find if you know of something else then I haven’t been able to find it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. But if my search skills didn’t turn it up before I fail to see how they could turn it up now.
3. My second post is when I apologised. You ignored it.
4. I was ASKED for that link and I gave it. Honestly what do you lose by linking me?

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

I’m number 1 because number 2 implies that I’m annoyed because I’m the thing being discussed.
Though really there should be a number 3 Person A: Posts a thing
Person B: injects balance because pedant
Person A: Morphs into a horde of Person As who don’t understand that if Histrionic is ableism then they really should stop using Narcissism and Egotisim and Sociopath in their posts for the same reason. You monster.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:13 am
1. It’s not nor will it ever be ableist language. My mother used it CORRECTLY that is why I gave the example.

Does it really matter? Mentally ill people are calling you out for being ableist. The best way to handle it is to apologize and drop it, not antagonize and insist you’re right.

And even if I believe you that your mother’s a psychiatrist (which I don’t, considering many people like you have tried to pull this “Oh, but my [relative] is a mental health worker, so it’s okay!” bullshit), what, you think your mother’s not capable of ableism? I know that most children respect their mothers, but c’mon, your mom’s human. She’s not infallible.

AND even if your mom is a psychiatrist, what the fresh fucking fuck makes you think that you’re qualified to use it “correctly”?

2. I never said it was indicative of all opinions you are arguing with a strawman.I said it’s all I had been able to find if you know of something else then I haven’t been able to find it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. But if my search skills didn’t turn it up before I fail to see how they could turn it up now.

I fail to see how this means I need to go look for it for you.

3. My second post is when I apologised. You ignored it.

Your second post in its entirety:

Thatonegirl | July 12, 2015 at 9:24 pm
Oh no Rape Culture is real it’s just not perpetuated by fiction and BDSM enthusiasts. Also I can’t see your pic Pandapool.

Hysterical and Histrionic are two different things I fail to see how I would use them interchangeably.

Also why is Necroing bad? Aren’t these things as relevant now as them were then?

I see no apology. And even if I did see an apology in text, it’s kind of rendered a non-apology considering that you have gone on to keep doing what you were asked not to do.

However, I continued to look, and I did find one single apology made by you:

Thatonegirl | July 12, 2015 at 10:45 pm
As to what my post has to do with the article above. Mainly I was point out that just because MRA’s are corrupt hatefilled hypocrites. Doesn’t mean that eveyone who objects to feminism objects for the same reason.

I didn’t say it very well but I don’t know how else to say it.

If that’s not related enough then I’m sorry I thought it was.

One, no one here asked for an apology (though it would be nice, I certainly don’t think you’d mean it), and two, an apology should be given, however it should be for trying to imply that feminists are somehow “histrionic” about things that are “fantasy”, and for refusing to abide by the rules and for being really fucking rude and doubling-down when called out on it.

4. I was ASKED for that link and I gave it. Honestly what do you lose by linking me?

Besides my time and my patience having to go find links for a so called feminist who has been nothing but snide and rude to everyone here? Nothing. I also gain nothing by linking you. So, it’s not worth it.

Go do it yourself. We don’t exist to gather links for you. You’re not paying me, I’m getting nothing out of it.

So I’m not going to do it. I’m instead going to do things that I’m getting more value out of.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

Anyway I’m done I see your point about the education vs personal thing. But Histrionic still ain’t ableism and never will be.

Now go watch your anime.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

My second post in reply the first post doesn’t count. Okay…Now, you can go watch your anime.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@Thatonegirl

You used it INCORRECTLY, however.

The trend seems to be MRA’s are more likely to be histrionic about real life whereas Feminists are more likely to be histrionic about fantasy.

What you sad has nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry but instead are using the word as an adjective to describe how two group of people view something. And if you were trying to use the word in a medical, you sure as shit did it wrong, because not even professional can diagnose an entire group of people over the internet.

Thus your use of the word is ableist and you not correcting and apologizing just shows you are not interested in the community as it’s part of our rules. People get banned for continuing ignoring our no ableist language rule. If you apologize and say you were wrong and do not defend your usage or try to use ableist language again, we’d have better faith in you. But you aren’t. It’s like you don’t care, which of course you don’t.

Instead of stopping and thinking about what you’re writing and thinking critically about what we’re writing back, you’re pushing against the rules, as if they don’t apply to you. Newsflash: We ALL follow these rules, including not necroing threads and not using ableist language. If you continue this, you WILL get banned because we ban such tedious behavior on this forum. We don’t have time for this shit.

And, no, you DID NOT APOLOGIZE:

I mean that MRA’s rewrite Facts about reality i.e. the whole “women and children first thing” they take one example and twist it to apply to all examples. Or they rewrite the narrative of abuse so that the victim is to blame.

Where as Feminists rewrite Facts about fiction i.e. they think the Drow in D&D were placed there to validate the fears of the thousands of racist misogynist men that play D&D.

It is not ablest to use Histrionic unlike retard or autistic Histrionics psychological definition has roots in it’s real definition. Perhaps you’d also like to stop using narcissism?

Look at that. Not one, “I’m sorry. I won’t use such language again.” Instead, you say it ISN’T ableist and try to turn it around on US. Fun fact: Narcissism isn’t a mental illness, it’s a trait (and Freuden, which makes it pretty bunk, which you should know from your parents), while Histrionic Personality Disorder is a disorder. Traits and disorders are different, which, again, you should know from your parents.

Lastly, I asked for the link because you mentioned it (in one of the above quotes, in fact), so the burden of proof, showing the article in question, was on you since you mentioned the fact. Citing your sources and all that.

However, why should we have to google “feminism basics” when you have perfectly functioning internet and search bar (unless you use Bing or Ask or whatever)? Literally, just type in “basics of feminism” and you’ll probably get philosophy websites or feminist blogs or something. It’s not hard.

The difference between you having to link and us not having to link is that you’re mentioning a very specific article, which means if any of us tried to google it, we could get a completely different article and not be on the same page. However, there is no single “basics of feminism” post and there are dozens of perfectly good sites that cover it, so you can just google that yourself. There is no single “Feminism 101” we all cite.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

I’m in moderation, but just you wait. And stuff. Eventually!

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

Wait! “so-called feminist” Sorry but one more thing, I’m not a feminist! Not even a so-called one Nor am I an MRA. Or a “not” MRA

Though I get called the opposite thing by whatever one I’m talking to. I know I said I was done but I never said I was a feminist. I just said I agreed with the purpose of the blog and would like to see a more nuanced feminist reading than the ones I’ve been able to find on Fangs For Fantasy.

That doesn’t mean I’m claiming to be a feminist. Where do you people get these strawmen?

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:28 am
I’m number 1 because number 2 implies that I’m annoyed because I’m the thing being discussed.

Or perhaps we’re just tired of trying to discuss basic shit with you that you’re refusing to get, and we’re tired of your demands for links to the vaguest of topics when you could just learn to Google better?

Really, when I want to discuss something with you, we should both be on equal terms, yes? So, if the conversation isn’t on my terms, why the fuck should I engage with you?

Or, better yet, why am I obligated to engage with you at all?

Though really there should be a number 3 Person A: Posts a thing
Person B: injects balance because pedant
Person A: Morphs into a horde of Person As who don’t understand that if Histrionic is ableism then they really should stop using Narcissism and Egotisim and Sociopath in their posts for the same reason. You monster.

Or perhaps you’re not a pedant so much as you’re just assuming that we’re all here to fucking do your homework for you after you get snippy with us because we asked you to not necro threads and use ableist terms (because those are against the rules) and you whined that you think it sucks and you should be able to break the rules as you see fit?

However, I’m somewhat amused by this and I like to discuss on this topic, so I’ll throw you a bone. Hell, I’ll even provide links, alright, cookie? (See, discussions on my terms!)

What you did in your original post that bothered us so much is you tried to paint women as being “over-dramatic” and “hysterical”. This has a lot of historical connotations against women. In Victorian times, women were often forcibly put into asylums for being “hysterical”.

However, that stereotype prevails even today. There are lots of stories about women being written off as “hysterical” by doctors and the women’s actual problems get ignored. Here’s one from Jezebel.

And because I’m feeling extra generous: Here’s a link to a custom search of stories from just the past year involving women being ignored or not going to doctors because they don’t want to be called “hysterical”.

When we refer to “Narcissism and Egotism and Sociopaths” (Though, we do refrain from armchair diagnoses because that’s just shitty and ableist anyways. We cannot diagnose over the internet, let alone on one story about a person, or a snippet of something they’ve said.) the connotations of that word aren’t there.

It’s not just the word itself, it’s the context behind that word. There’s not really such a thing as “good hysteria”, but there’s healthy levels of Narcissism and Egotism that people should have (though, that’s another kettle of fish when discussing women because there’s this idea that any woman with even a smidgen of self-esteem or healthy levels of Narcissism/Egotism is considered to be “vain” or “conceited”, or “arrogant”.)

When we use those words in reference to men (Though, again, we try to avoid “sociopath” because armchair diagnoses are shitty and ableist), we talk about their egos and the way some men believe the world revolves around them and their penises, and how women should do the same.

Again, context and connotation are important. You used a word that has a very bad connotation when referring to women, and you used that word in context to try and make feminists (and MRAs, but not so much because you implied that they were worried about “reality”, while us feminists were more worried about “fiction”) sound “hysterical and over-dramatic”, because that’s what that word means.

You used a word that has similar meaning to one that has been wielded against women for centuries, and has been used to keep women in asylums or out of hospitals when they needed them most. So, yes. We are going to get defensive and call you out for it.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:48 am
Wait! “so-called feminist” Sorry but one more thing, I’m not a feminist! Not even a so-called one Nor am I an MRA. Or a “not” MRA

Though I get called the opposite thing by whatever one I’m talking to. I know I said I was done but I never said I was a feminist. I just said I agreed with the purpose of the blog and would like to see a more nuanced feminist reading than the ones I’ve been able to find on Fangs For Fantasy.

That doesn’t mean I’m claiming to be a feminist. Where do you people get these strawmen?

OH EVEN BETTER!

Someone who isn’t a feminist demanding that feminists do their homework for them! Though, I hardly see how that’s a “strawman”. Mislabeling, definitely. But, not a strawman.

Again, learn 2 Google. Hell, just Google “feminism 101” if you want some basic information.

And of course I get caught by the italics mammoth. Ah, well.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:32 am
Anyway I’m done I see your point about the education vs personal thing. But Histrionic still ain’t ableism and never will be.

Now go watch your anime.

I’m glad you see my point.

However, again, histrionic isn’t just ableism, it’s also inherently sexist. See above~

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@Thatonegirl

Wow, you’re not a feminist?

Shocking.

We never claimed you’re a feminist, I don’t believe. If any of us did, it was ironically. We have all manner of trolls coming in here, trying to pass off as what they think feminism and “SJW” are and trying to “call us out” on shit and making a fool of themselves in the process.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

histrionic comes from history not hysterical. It was actually someone on this thread that suggested I should have used hysterical instead.

Thatonegirl
Thatonegirl
6 years ago

Paradox called me a “so-called” feminist implying that I had claimed to be one.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

I wish one of my comments wasn’t in moderation. I’m assuming it’s because I mentioned Freud and the filter doesn’t distinguish debunking stuff from weaponizing stuff.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:57 am
histrionic comes from history not hysterical. It was actually someone on this thread that suggested I should have used hysterical instead.

Actually, weirwoodtreehugger asked you if “hysterical was too much of a dogwhistle for you”, not suggesting that you use “hysterical”.

Also, earlier in the thread, Jackie provided the definition of “histrionic”. Time for a refresher course:

his·tri·on·ic
ˌhistrēˈänik/Submit
adjective
1. overly theatrical or melodramatic in character or style.
“a histrionic outburst”
synonyms: melodramatic, theatrical, dramatic, exaggerated, stagy, actorly, showy, affected, artificial, overacted, overdone
noun
1.exaggerated dramatic behavior designed to attract attention.
“discussions around the issue have been based as much in histrionics as in history”
synonyms: dramatics, theatrics, tantrums;

So, what you said was “Feminists are being over-dramatic about fictional things, while MRAs are being over-dramatic about reality.”

You’re still implying that feminists are making a big deal about nothing, and that still carries the connotations I talked about earlier.

Again, was “hysterical” too much of a dog whistle for you?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

No one suggested that you used “hysterical” and that’s not what histrionic comes from. I JUST POSTED the definitions WITH origins on the previous page, and “histrionic” comes from Latin histrionicus which means “actor”. What would drama have history, which comes from historia?

And, yes, “so called feminist” is “ironic” because you talked about a feminist blog piece which we assume you either found because, likely, you’re an angry MRA linked to it and you’re using it as a defense for trolling by pretending to be a feminism. Because we get trolls ALL THE TIME trying to do that shit.

You are acting exactly like a common variety of troll on our forums so we’re treating you like one.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

Ninja’d by Paradoxical. T3T

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

What you sad has nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry but instead are using the word as an adjective to describe how two group of people view something. And if you were trying to use the word in a medical, you sure as shit did it wrong, because not even professional can diagnose an entire group of people over the internet.

Thus your use of the word is ableist and you not correcting and apologizing just shows you are not interested in the community as it’s part of our rules. People get banned for continuing ignoring our no ableist language rule. If you apologize and say you were wrong and do not defend your usage or try to use ableist language again, we’d have better faith in you. But you aren’t. It’s like you don’t care, which of course you don’t.

Instead of stopping and thinking about what you’re writing and thinking critically about what we’re writing back, you’re pushing against the rules, as if they don’t apply to you. Newsflash: We ALL follow these rules, including not necroing threads and not using ableist language. If you continue this, you WILL get banned because we ban such tedious behavior on this forum. We don’t have time for this shit.

I’m quoting my modded comment because I hope this goes through because this is an important part.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

Here’s the other part.

Look at that. Not one, “I’m sorry. I won’t use such language again.” Instead, you say it ISN’T ableist and try to turn it around on US. Fun fact: Narcissism isn’t a mental illness, it’s a trait (and Freuden, which makes it pretty bunk, which you should know from your parents), while Histrionic Personality Disorder is a disorder. Traits and disorders are different, which, again, you should know from your parents.

Lastly, I asked for the link because you mentioned it (in one of the above quotes, in fact), so the burden of proof, showing the article in question, was on you since you mentioned the fact. Citing your sources and all that.

However, why should we have to google “feminism basics” when you have perfectly functioning internet and search bar (unless you use Bing or Ask or whatever)? Literally, just type in “basics of feminism” and you’ll probably get philosophy websites or feminist blogs or something. It’s not hard.

The difference between you having to link and us not having to link is that you’re mentioning a very specific article, which means if any of us tried to google it, we could get a completely different article and not be on the same page. However, there is no single “basics of feminism” post and there are dozens of perfectly good sites that cover it, so you can just google that yourself. There is no single “Feminism 101″ we all cite.

If this goes through, the reason I’m in moderation is because I quoted Thatonegirl.

I’m not gonna wait all night for my comment to go through goddamnit.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Boom. There it is. Well done, Jackie!

(Also, check your Steam. I sent you a link of more leaked Deadpool footage.)

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

DEADPOOL SQEEEE~~~~~<3<3<3 ILU