Here’s a bit of advice for Men’s Rights redditors and MRAs in general: if you don’t want people to associate the Men’s Rights movement with hatred, you should probably not associate yourselves with hate groups.
Yesterday, a fellow called heiligenschein posted a link in the Men’s Rights subreddit to a relatively new subreddit called simply SPLC, a subreddit set up by enemies of the Southern Poverty Law Center and devoted to, as heiligenschein put it, “compiling the numerous criticisms of the [SPLC].” As he explained in a comment:
That’s a somewhat odd criticism for heiligenschein, one of the moderators of the SPLC subreddit, to make. If you look at the front page of this subreddit, you’ll discover that he and his pals are already doing a fine job of associating themselves with “neo nazi nutters” all by themselves.
If you scroll through the links, you’ll notice that Heiligenschein has posted links to several different articles from VDare.com, which the SPLC describes as an “anti-immigration hate website” which “regularly publishes articles by prominent white nationalists, race scientists and anti-Semites.” Note to MRAs: if you’re disinclined to take the word of the SPLC on anything, all you need to do to get a sense of VDare’s genteel racism is to do a search on the site for, well, the word “racism,” or “immigrant.” Or you can read VDare founder Peter Brimelow’s repulsive victim-blaming post on the “root causes” of the Sikh temple murders in Wisconsin.
Heiligenschein also links to the virulently anti-immigrant American Patrol Report and a Confederacy-loving group called the Georgia Heritage Council; a quick glance at either group’s website will reveal what sort of organizations these are. He also links to a pretty hateful site called A Voice for Men, which some of you may have heard of already.
But the connection to the racist far-right goes beyond a couple of links. The five other moderators of the r/splc subreddit – mayonesa, dvance, Octuple, salsaverde, warkin – are also the moderators of reddit’s race-obsessed “new right” subreddit. Some of the submissions in that subreddit at the moment:
18% of marriages by Chinese and Japanese Americans are to Jews. Thoughts?
The poison of multiculturalism
USA Olympic athlete waves Mex flag: propaganda-bearing parasite prole being used as an infectious agent by the master parasite class?
The not-so-fab five also moderate a smaller subreddit called “alternative right,” a dog-whistle term amongst the far right for (pseudo) intellectual racism and so-called “human biological diversity.” Some of the submissions there, all of them submitted by moderator Mayonesa:
Emo neckbeards having hategasm over pro-white flyer
“I believe Europe to be the ‘white man’s country’. If they don’t want non-whites among them, I think it’s fair.”
Diversity perversity: Behind multicultural push is effort to degrade American culture
The West has been seriously damaged by Communist successes at memetic subversion.
The five run at least two more subreddits devoted to this kind of crap.
Just so you know, MRAs, these are the sort of people you end up hanging out with once you join the SPLC anti-fan club.
Naturally, the handful of comments I found in the r/mensrights discussion on the subject pointing out that the r/splc moderators were a bunch of race-obsessed far-right extremists — see here, here, and here — all got downvotes from the regulars there.
You’re digging your own hole here, MRAs.
1. I do know what this site is for, I agree with what this site is for to an extent. What I don’t agree with is static opinions. I admit I can be pedantic when it comes to balancing the scales, even out of place or out of turn. Something I have already apologised for.
2. Yes Necro-shaming don’t act like your special sevenofmine it’s a perfectly legitimate name for a tendency on the internet that in my opinion shouldn’t exist. You can have standards of behaviour for your community but I’m allowed to think those standards SUCK.
3. Feminism can help men, never said it couldn’t but if the standards of analysis on Fangs For Fantasy are any indication what it can’t help is fiction.
4. These people? Do you often force everyone who does not share your opinion into one easily dismissed bracket?
5. Using Histrionic is not ableism. If you’re like me and grow up with a psychiatrist mother and a father who actually is frequently histrionic (though not hpd) your going to pick up that sort of vocabulary and your going to use it the way it’s been used in front of you.
So 😛 to you sevenofmine, isodore13, the pandapool, weirdwoodtreehugger, paradoxical intention and you’re dogpilling comments, melodramatic gifs and general inability to treat an individual with an opinion like an individual with an opinion.
here’s a link to Fangs For Fantasy http://www.fangsforthefantasy.com/2012/08/reverse-oppression-fad-that-needs-to-end.html the article is okay though, I wish they wouldn’t over generalise EVERYTHING. Cause it makes it easy to put x-men into the same category as that one book where heterosexuality is homosexuality because why not?
There’s a distinction between the first and the second example, one that I don’t think the article makes apparent or really understands.
Never said all feminists agree but enough agree with this mindset that I worry for where it might end up going. My worry over it is one of the main reasons I look for opinions that speak counter to it so far most of those opinions are also anti-feminist. If you know of more nuanced of these ideas I’d actually like it if you could link me.
I asked for you to show me before but since you didn’t…I linked you right so it’s only fair if you share?
I couldn’t speak for everyone, so I worded it like that. I do agree though, we should all be intersectional.
I didn’t see an apology.
If you think our standards suck, don’t fucking post here, simple as that. If you don’t think those standards shouldn’t exist, feel free to start your own website.
WordPress has a free option. Feel free to use it.
When you post on someone else’s website/blog/whatever, you are agreeing to follow their rules. Don’t follow them, out on your ass, sometimes with mockery. Simple as that. If you can’t follow the rules of someone else’s blog (Which are there for a reason), then don’t get pissy that they’re there when you’re called out for not following them.
You asked for the problems of feminism, I addressed some common criticisms.
I also addressed that one blog =/= all of feminism. One blog is one blog. It can be one or more people with opinions, but at the end of the day, they still don’t represent all of feminism.
If you don’t like your fiction to be feminist, that’s your preference. I fail to see why one blog that none of us have ever heard of should really impact our preferences at all.
Lots of us like fiction, and would like to see it become a little more inclusive. So, we analyze and see where others have failed to do so, and learn from that. Surprise! Some of us love to critique media we consume.
Again, you’re getting off topic and going on another train of thought.
When “these people” are the ones not following the rules, sure.
“It’s not my fault that I’m using ableist language, my parents do! I’m not required to take responsibility for my own actions and I’m certainly not going to learn and grow and become a better person! So what I’m saying isn’t ableist because I said so, and my mom’s totally a psychiatrist and you should totally buy that even though it has no bearing on the conversation and I appear to be using it as a convenient out!”
L O Fuckin’ L.
Like we’re not “individuals with opinions” that manage to get along just fine. Perhaps it’s just you, cookie?
I agree with a lot of their points actually, though I can see why there’s a lot of this “reverse discrimination” stuff out there. It is making an attempt to get privileged people empathize with those people who they might not.
However, I do feel like it is a token gesture, and the fact that those “reverse discrimination” things getting more attention than literature by oppressed groups is really not cool.
I straight up told you what the problems were, and now you want me to do your Google work for you? Hell no. You do your own feminist 101 homework, rude one. Go find a feminist who actually wants to teach instead of wasting the time of other people who aren’t here to get you up to speed on basic shit. Not every feminist is here to teach you, and we don’t owe you anything.
Why should I be going and fetching links for you after you broke the rules and accused us of “dogpiling” on you because you broke the rules and got snide when called out for it? I got anime to watch, and I already gave you a huge teal deer about the problems on feminism.
I don’t owe you links to anything. All you gave us was one link to one blog that you claim is representative of all feminism’s opinions on fiction, which, again, it isn’t.
Hey, cookie!
If you want a link, here’s one you might find interesting.
And here’s a good snippet:
1. It’s not nor will it ever be ableist language. My mother used it CORRECTLY that is why I gave the example.
2. I never said it was indicative of all opinions you are arguing with a strawman.I said it’s all I had been able to find if you know of something else then I haven’t been able to find it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. But if my search skills didn’t turn it up before I fail to see how they could turn it up now.
3. My second post is when I apologised. You ignored it.
4. I was ASKED for that link and I gave it. Honestly what do you lose by linking me?
I’m number 1 because number 2 implies that I’m annoyed because I’m the thing being discussed.
Though really there should be a number 3 Person A: Posts a thing
Person B: injects balance because pedant
Person A: Morphs into a horde of Person As who don’t understand that if Histrionic is ableism then they really should stop using Narcissism and Egotisim and Sociopath in their posts for the same reason. You monster.
Does it really matter? Mentally ill people are calling you out for being ableist. The best way to handle it is to apologize and drop it, not antagonize and insist you’re right.
And even if I believe you that your mother’s a psychiatrist (which I don’t, considering many people like you have tried to pull this “Oh, but my [relative] is a mental health worker, so it’s okay!” bullshit), what, you think your mother’s not capable of ableism? I know that most children respect their mothers, but c’mon, your mom’s human. She’s not infallible.
AND even if your mom is a psychiatrist, what the fresh fucking fuck makes you think that you’re qualified to use it “correctly”?
I fail to see how this means I need to go look for it for you.
Your second post in its entirety:
I see no apology. And even if I did see an apology in text, it’s kind of rendered a non-apology considering that you have gone on to keep doing what you were asked not to do.
However, I continued to look, and I did find one single apology made by you:
One, no one here asked for an apology (though it would be nice, I certainly don’t think you’d mean it), and two, an apology should be given, however it should be for trying to imply that feminists are somehow “histrionic” about things that are “fantasy”, and for refusing to abide by the rules and for being really fucking rude and doubling-down when called out on it.
Besides my time and my patience having to go find links for a so called feminist who has been nothing but snide and rude to everyone here? Nothing. I also gain nothing by linking you. So, it’s not worth it.
Go do it yourself. We don’t exist to gather links for you. You’re not paying me, I’m getting nothing out of it.
So I’m not going to do it. I’m instead going to do things that I’m getting more value out of.
Anyway I’m done I see your point about the education vs personal thing. But Histrionic still ain’t ableism and never will be.
Now go watch your anime.
My second post in reply the first post doesn’t count. Okay…Now, you can go watch your anime.
@Thatonegirl
You used it INCORRECTLY, however.
What you sad has nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry but instead are using the word as an adjective to describe how two group of people view something. And if you were trying to use the word in a medical, you sure as shit did it wrong, because not even professional can diagnose an entire group of people over the internet.
Thus your use of the word is ableist and you not correcting and apologizing just shows you are not interested in the community as it’s part of our rules. People get banned for continuing ignoring our no ableist language rule. If you apologize and say you were wrong and do not defend your usage or try to use ableist language again, we’d have better faith in you. But you aren’t. It’s like you don’t care, which of course you don’t.
Instead of stopping and thinking about what you’re writing and thinking critically about what we’re writing back, you’re pushing against the rules, as if they don’t apply to you. Newsflash: We ALL follow these rules, including not necroing threads and not using ableist language. If you continue this, you WILL get banned because we ban such tedious behavior on this forum. We don’t have time for this shit.
And, no, you DID NOT APOLOGIZE:
Look at that. Not one, “I’m sorry. I won’t use such language again.” Instead, you say it ISN’T ableist and try to turn it around on US. Fun fact: Narcissism isn’t a mental illness, it’s a trait (and Freuden, which makes it pretty bunk, which you should know from your parents), while Histrionic Personality Disorder is a disorder. Traits and disorders are different, which, again, you should know from your parents.
Lastly, I asked for the link because you mentioned it (in one of the above quotes, in fact), so the burden of proof, showing the article in question, was on you since you mentioned the fact. Citing your sources and all that.
However, why should we have to google “feminism basics” when you have perfectly functioning internet and search bar (unless you use Bing or Ask or whatever)? Literally, just type in “basics of feminism” and you’ll probably get philosophy websites or feminist blogs or something. It’s not hard.
The difference between you having to link and us not having to link is that you’re mentioning a very specific article, which means if any of us tried to google it, we could get a completely different article and not be on the same page. However, there is no single “basics of feminism” post and there are dozens of perfectly good sites that cover it, so you can just google that yourself. There is no single “Feminism 101” we all cite.
I’m in moderation, but just you wait. And stuff. Eventually!
Wait! “so-called feminist” Sorry but one more thing, I’m not a feminist! Not even a so-called one Nor am I an MRA. Or a “not” MRA
Though I get called the opposite thing by whatever one I’m talking to. I know I said I was done but I never said I was a feminist. I just said I agreed with the purpose of the blog and would like to see a more nuanced feminist reading than the ones I’ve been able to find on Fangs For Fantasy.
That doesn’t mean I’m claiming to be a feminist. Where do you people get these strawmen?
Or perhaps we’re just tired of trying to discuss basic shit with you that you’re refusing to get, and we’re tired of your demands for links to the vaguest of topics when you could just learn to Google better?
Really, when I want to discuss something with you, we should both be on equal terms, yes? So, if the conversation isn’t on my terms, why the fuck should I engage with you?
Or, better yet, why am I obligated to engage with you at all?
Or perhaps you’re not a pedant so much as you’re just assuming that we’re all here to fucking do your homework for you after you get snippy with us because we asked you to not necro threads and use ableist terms (because those are against the rules) and you whined that you think it sucks and you should be able to break the rules as you see fit?
However, I’m somewhat amused by this and I like to discuss on this topic, so I’ll throw you a bone. Hell, I’ll even provide links, alright, cookie? (See, discussions on my terms!)
What you did in your original post that bothered us so much is you tried to paint women as being “over-dramatic” and “hysterical”. This has a lot of historical connotations against women. In Victorian times, women were often forcibly put into asylums for being “hysterical”.
However, that stereotype prevails even today. There are lots of stories about women being written off as “hysterical” by doctors and the women’s actual problems get ignored. Here’s one from Jezebel.
And because I’m feeling extra generous: Here’s a link to a custom search of stories from just the past year involving women being ignored or not going to doctors because they don’t want to be called “hysterical”.
When we refer to “Narcissism and Egotism and Sociopaths” (Though, we do refrain from armchair diagnoses because that’s just shitty and ableist anyways. We cannot diagnose over the internet, let alone on one story about a person, or a snippet of something they’ve said.) the connotations of that word aren’t there.
It’s not just the word itself, it’s the context behind that word. There’s not really such a thing as “good hysteria”, but there’s healthy levels of Narcissism and Egotism that people should have (though, that’s another kettle of fish when discussing women because there’s this idea that any woman with even a smidgen of self-esteem or healthy levels of Narcissism/Egotism is considered to be “vain” or “conceited”, or “arrogant”.)
When we use those words in reference to men (Though, again, we try to avoid “sociopath” because armchair diagnoses are shitty and ableist), we talk about their egos and the way some men believe the world revolves around them and their penises, and how women should do the same.
Again, context and connotation are important. You used a word that has a very bad connotation when referring to women, and you used that word in context to try and make feminists (and MRAs, but not so much because you implied that they were worried about “reality”, while us feminists were more worried about “fiction”) sound “hysterical and over-dramatic”, because that’s what that word means.
You used a word that has similar meaning to one that has been wielded against women for centuries, and has been used to keep women in asylums or out of hospitals when they needed them most. So, yes. We are going to get defensive and call you out for it.
OH EVEN BETTER!
Someone who isn’t a feminist demanding that feminists do their homework for them! Though, I hardly see how that’s a “strawman”. Mislabeling, definitely. But, not a strawman.
Again, learn 2 Google. Hell, just Google “feminism 101” if you want some basic information.
And of course I get caught by the italics mammoth. Ah, well.
I’m glad you see my point.
However, again, histrionic isn’t just ableism, it’s also inherently sexist. See above~
@Thatonegirl
Wow, you’re not a feminist?
Shocking.
We never claimed you’re a feminist, I don’t believe. If any of us did, it was ironically. We have all manner of trolls coming in here, trying to pass off as what they think feminism and “SJW” are and trying to “call us out” on shit and making a fool of themselves in the process.
histrionic comes from history not hysterical. It was actually someone on this thread that suggested I should have used hysterical instead.
Paradox called me a “so-called” feminist implying that I had claimed to be one.
I wish one of my comments wasn’t in moderation. I’m assuming it’s because I mentioned Freud and the filter doesn’t distinguish debunking stuff from weaponizing stuff.
Actually, weirwoodtreehugger asked you if “hysterical was too much of a dogwhistle for you”, not suggesting that you use “hysterical”.
Also, earlier in the thread, Jackie provided the definition of “histrionic”. Time for a refresher course:
So, what you said was “Feminists are being over-dramatic about fictional things, while MRAs are being over-dramatic about reality.”
You’re still implying that feminists are making a big deal about nothing, and that still carries the connotations I talked about earlier.
Again, was “hysterical” too much of a dog whistle for you?
No one suggested that you used “hysterical” and that’s not what histrionic comes from. I JUST POSTED the definitions WITH origins on the previous page, and “histrionic” comes from Latin histrionicus which means “actor”. What would drama have history, which comes from historia?
And, yes, “so called feminist” is “ironic” because you talked about a feminist blog piece which we assume you either found because, likely, you’re an angry MRA linked to it and you’re using it as a defense for trolling by pretending to be a feminism. Because we get trolls ALL THE TIME trying to do that shit.
You are acting exactly like a common variety of troll on our forums so we’re treating you like one.
Ninja’d by Paradoxical. T3T
I’m quoting my modded comment because I hope this goes through because this is an important part.
Here’s the other part.
If this goes through, the reason I’m in moderation is because I quoted Thatonegirl.
I’m not gonna wait all night for my comment to go through goddamnit.
Boom. There it is. Well done, Jackie!
(Also, check your Steam. I sent you a link of more leaked Deadpool footage.)
DEADPOOL SQEEEE~~~~~<3<3<3 ILU