Here’s a bit of advice for Men’s Rights redditors and MRAs in general: if you don’t want people to associate the Men’s Rights movement with hatred, you should probably not associate yourselves with hate groups.
Yesterday, a fellow called heiligenschein posted a link in the Men’s Rights subreddit to a relatively new subreddit called simply SPLC, a subreddit set up by enemies of the Southern Poverty Law Center and devoted to, as heiligenschein put it, “compiling the numerous criticisms of the [SPLC].” As he explained in a comment:
That’s a somewhat odd criticism for heiligenschein, one of the moderators of the SPLC subreddit, to make. If you look at the front page of this subreddit, you’ll discover that he and his pals are already doing a fine job of associating themselves with “neo nazi nutters” all by themselves.
If you scroll through the links, you’ll notice that Heiligenschein has posted links to several different articles from VDare.com, which the SPLC describes as an “anti-immigration hate website” which “regularly publishes articles by prominent white nationalists, race scientists and anti-Semites.” Note to MRAs: if you’re disinclined to take the word of the SPLC on anything, all you need to do to get a sense of VDare’s genteel racism is to do a search on the site for, well, the word “racism,” or “immigrant.” Or you can read VDare founder Peter Brimelow’s repulsive victim-blaming post on the “root causes” of the Sikh temple murders in Wisconsin.
Heiligenschein also links to the virulently anti-immigrant American Patrol Report and a Confederacy-loving group called the Georgia Heritage Council; a quick glance at either group’s website will reveal what sort of organizations these are. He also links to a pretty hateful site called A Voice for Men, which some of you may have heard of already.
But the connection to the racist far-right goes beyond a couple of links. The five other moderators of the r/splc subreddit – mayonesa, dvance, Octuple, salsaverde, warkin – are also the moderators of reddit’s race-obsessed “new right” subreddit. Some of the submissions in that subreddit at the moment:
18% of marriages by Chinese and Japanese Americans are to Jews. Thoughts?
The poison of multiculturalism
USA Olympic athlete waves Mex flag: propaganda-bearing parasite prole being used as an infectious agent by the master parasite class?
The not-so-fab five also moderate a smaller subreddit called “alternative right,” a dog-whistle term amongst the far right for (pseudo) intellectual racism and so-called “human biological diversity.” Some of the submissions there, all of them submitted by moderator Mayonesa:
Emo neckbeards having hategasm over pro-white flyer
“I believe Europe to be the ‘white man’s country’. If they don’t want non-whites among them, I think it’s fair.”
Diversity perversity: Behind multicultural push is effort to degrade American culture
The West has been seriously damaged by Communist successes at memetic subversion.
The five run at least two more subreddits devoted to this kind of crap.
Just so you know, MRAs, these are the sort of people you end up hanging out with once you join the SPLC anti-fan club.
Naturally, the handful of comments I found in the r/mensrights discussion on the subject pointing out that the r/splc moderators were a bunch of race-obsessed far-right extremists — see here, here, and here — all got downvotes from the regulars there.
You’re digging your own hole here, MRAs.
But… Your post had nothing whatsoever to do with David’s post.
David’s post was about MRAs/Nazis sulking about being noticed by the SPLC. Your post was the same boring “I’m not an MRA but MRAs and feminists are exactly the same, also you’re all silly emotional wimminz” crap we get ten times a week. It could have been squeezed out on any more recent post and been just as “Relevant.”
Wait. Is this Mad Cow again?
@SFHC
If we see a twenty page essay about how wrong we are then probably yes.
Yeah, 50 Shades of Grey is a best-seller. In the first book (sixteenth chapter to be specific), Christian Grey breaks into Ana’s home and rapes her into submission because she said (by way of a joke) that she didn’t want to continue the relationship.
And this book is a “worldwide phenomenon”, and has a movie made about it. Nope, no rape being put in a positive light and victims being shoved aside and blamed in our culture!
I do agree that BDSM enthusiasts (being one myself) try our best not to perpetuate the cycle. But the pornos for that genre aren’t helping. At all.
“How do dictionaries work?”
Because you don’t walk into a two year old conversation to add your two cents, especially when those two cents aren’t even remotely related to what the conversation about it.
You walked into a thread about MRAs being on the SPLC’s watchlist, and you went off about how apparently feminists are totes the same, but feminists are being “histrionic” about “fantasy” (in other words, you said we make shit up, way to prove that you’re not an MRA). And you got this information from “MRA allies”, who must be totally trustworthy about feminism and what they’re doing wrong! (You want to know what feminism’s doing wrong? Talk to a bunch of feminists. We got that shit on lock.)
That’s like you see two people having a conversation about their favorite books at a party, and then you see them two years later, and you bring up that conversation they had about books, and then add “I like cheese!” on the end. Congrats, you dredged up old conversations that were long forgotten and moved on from, and you’ve proven you can’t hold on to a train of thought.
Goddamnit Embed mammoth.
No Hysterical is deep emotion brought on by fear or anger. Like I get hysterical when it’s two weeks to the exam and I don’t know anything. Histrionic is the rewriting of a situation to suit your interest. Like I rewrite my intentions leading up to the exam: “It’s not my fault the exam is on in two weeks they should make it later so I have more time to study” this of course completely ignores the fact that I did have time to study and didn’t use it.
As to what my post has to do with the article above. Mainly I was point out that just because MRA’s are corrupt hatefilled hypocrites. Doesn’t mean that eveyone who objects to feminism objects for the same reason.
I didn’t say it very well but I don’t know how else to say it.
If that’s not related enough then I’m sorry I thought it was.
Also madcow? Please, I know you think I’m stupid and to be made fun of. But would you at least acknowledge me as my own stupid thing to be made fun of? And not someone else.
I have an IMVU account I can give the username if you would like to reach me with an online presence more solid than a post to a blog? Would that help?
I prefer to believe that thatonegirl’s post meant:
MRAs are people who get unreasonably and unmeritedly upset about real life things, like women attempting to maintain bodily and financial autonomy from entitled dudebros who want them to remain objects that exist only at their pleasure.
When feminists are portrayed as getting stupidly and unnreasonably upset about things, it tends to be farcial in nature, like believing that feminists are gnashing their teeth and wailing about MGTOWs (never actually) going their own way.
Hush, leave me to my happy fantasy. I’m a feminist so I’m allowed to get upset about people ruining it.
I have never seen this definition of histrionic anywhere before. You can’t just make up your own definitions for words and except us to know what you’re talking about.
Also no they aren’t more trustworthy than Feminists but they are what they are which is why I mentioned what they were.
If you have that “shit on lockdown” give it to me. Do you think I enjoy having to slog through needless insults against my gender just to try and find a balanced perspective of what’s going on? I’d much rather read or watch something that just gave me the information.
My inability to hold an online discussion does not necessarily reflect my actual thought process nor is it a permanent mark against me.
Also a comment section is not one long conversation. Hence why I don’t agree with the Necro-shaming in comment sections, I do agree with it in threads however because threads usually do resemble one long conversation.
The histrionic definition is implied in Histrionic Personality disorder.
Where the person often rewrites situations to shirk responsibility or deny analyzing their feelings too deeply. If you haven’t heard it used that way then you clearly don’t hang out with enough psychiatrists.
Necro shaming?
http://media.tumblr.com/05551b1cf0cdfd9b491fc255d4bae554/tumblr_inline_mtbrvp8lDy1qbjc85.gif
You said that their ‘histrionics’ are grounded in reality while the ‘histrionics’ of feminists are grounded in fantasy. Please clarify this statement.
@Thatonegirl
We have clear rules against using ableist language in the Welcome Package plus almost every thread has a discussion about someone using ableist language and how we DON’T do that, so why would use “histrionic” when we have clear rules AGAINST that?
I mean that MRA’s rewrite Facts about reality i.e. the whole “women and children first thing” they take one example and twist it to apply to all examples. Or they rewrite the narrative of abuse so that the victim is to blame.
Where as Feminists rewrite Facts about fiction i.e. they think the Drow in D&D were placed there to validate the fears of the thousands of racist misogynist men that play D&D.
It is not ablest to use Histrionic unlike retard or autistic Histrionics psychological definition has roots in it’s real definition. Perhaps you’d also like to stop using narcissism?
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/confused_lion_king.gif
I…what? I have never heard this, like, ever?
And, like, still, why the ableist language? Couldn’t you have rephrase what you said, you know, better the first time rather than using an awkwardly placed word twice to describe two different things using the same adjective? It seems that WASN’T what you’re saying.
Ohhh okay, yes, I get it, you know nothing about feminism or MRAs. Got it.
I saw that comment on Fangs For Fantasy a feminist/social justice blog that focuses on urban fantasy.
So you’re saying that MRA’s don’t twist the truth so that female abuse victims are dismissed as complicit in their own abuse?
Am I understanding you correctly isidore13?
@Thatonegirl
Can I get a link?
And, you know, you still haven’t address your usage of the word “histrionic”, like, at all.
I’m saying MRAs do not live in reality in any sense.
One comment on a niche blog most of the world hasn’t heard of is indicative of feminists being histrionic?
I know this gif is overused, but I think it applies.
http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2013/08/14/jennifer-lawrence-10.gif
Sorry, let me be more clear: Nothing MRAs believe or espouse about women is based in reality in any way.
TIL: One feminist/social justice blog saying something = ALL OF FEMINISM AGREES
In other words, you’re taking the words of one blog and saying they represent all of us, thus, trying to misrepresent us as having a hive-mind. Okay, got it.
Now to address what you said to me directly:
“Necro-shaming”? How rude. We don’t talk ill of the dead here. The last thing we need is to bring down ghostly wrath upon our computers and phones.
Also, yes, a comment section is one long conversation. Also, if no one has posted there in two years, it means that we’ve moved on. It’s polite to continue the conversation elsewhere instead of bringing old topics to the front because you wanted to ramble at us.
You could have posted that question on someone else’s forum, or even in another, more recent, thread considering it wasn’t even on topic. At least if you posted that in one of the more recent threads, we’d only get on you for derailing, not necroing.
I normally don’t like explaining Feminist 101 shit to a person who claims to be a feminist (and who didn’t even say “please”. Fucking rude.) and I would tell them to fuck off and go do their own homework, but I’ll make an exception for you because I’m in a semi-good mood. Aren’t you a special little cookie?
There’s one simple, overarching, but still rather complicated idea where most feminists can agree that feminism fails: A lack of intersectionality.
There’s a lot of talk about “White Feminism”, which refers to feminist ideas that only benefit able-bodied, cishet, middle-to-upper class white women, and shuns everyone else. This is no better than what MRAs are trying to do, in most respects. There’s also Radfems who are discriminatory against transwomen or women who do sex work, and there’s also so-called “feminists” who are racist, classist, or even discriminate based on sexual orientation or religion.
There’s a lot of feminism out there that shuns or outright discriminates against other women who should be their allies: transwomen, women of color, LGBTQA+ women, poor women, women who are of different faiths, women with mental illnesses, disabled women, sex worker women, fat women etc.
There’s a lot of different groups of feminists of all sorts of backgrounds, so there’s a lot of different ideas swirling around. It is possible (and this does happen) that some feminists are discriminatory against women who may not be in the same privileged class that they are.
Intersectional feminists (such as myself, and a few others on this site) try to bring to mind that there are women out there who do need to think about their own privileges when discussing matters of feminism.
For instance, I’m white, cisgendered, and lower middle-class. Thus, I have some privilege over other women who are women of color, transwomen, and women who are homeless. But, I’m still disadvantaged when compared to some women because I have mental illnesses and I’m queer. However, I use my privilege to speak up in spaces where the voices of people who don’t share that privilege cannot be heard. For instance, I call out other white people for being racist.
Some people have solved this issue by stepping out and creating their own spaces that have feminist principles, but aren’t feminist. For instance: Womanism was created by black women to deal with the racism of feminism.
Now, some other problems that people claim feminism has:
“Feminism doesn’t help men!”
Feminism actually does help men. A lot.
However, I find that people who make this kind of statement (usually MRAs or other anti-feminists) usually mean that feminism isn’t dropping everything to work on their particular pet problems right now, thus, we aren’t doing anything, and thus, feminism “isn’t needed”.
“Feminism wants women to be better than men!”
Considering that there are studies proving that whenever a man and a woman are given equal time to speak, both the woman and the man think the woman talked more, I think this sentiment is just silly and petty.
People who see this see women as getting equal treatment as women getting better treatment, despite the fact that women have been consistently discriminated against.
“Feminists hate men!”
Considering that the person who writes this blog is a man, and there are several male regulars here, I’d say that’s pretty false.
There are women out there who don’t like to associate with men (I used to be one of them due to trauma), and that should be respected, but it’s not true of feminism as a whole.
“Feminists want to stifle my free speech!”
Feminists aren’t the government. We aren’t part of some secret cabal to take things away from you. We just don’t think you should be allowed to use your FREEZE PEACH to talk down to women and get away with it. Or, at the very least, we shouldn’t have to put up with it.
_____________________________
Alright, I think that’s good for Feminist 101 for now. I’m sure if you dug into some more feminist blogs you could find some more critiques, both valid and invalid.
What are you even referring to here? MRA sites?
One, you do that to yourself. There’s plenty of feminist sites and feminists with an online presence that critique feminism and ideas that stem from feminism and other feminists. It’s not our fault you couldn’t find them. Improve your Google-Fu.
Two, what, you don’t think we do that too? Do you not know what this site is for? Says so right in the tagline: “The new misogyny, tracked and mocked”.
We mock misogyny. We track misogyny. We hear MRA shit all the time.
I’m pretty pretty sure instead of “a few others” you meant “everyone” because I doubt there’s one person here that doesn’t like intersectionalism.
And if there is…
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/amy_angry.gif
Just when you think these people couldn’t get any more ludicrous.
HOW DARE YOU HAVE STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND EXPECT EVEN ME TO ABIDE BY THEM!!!!
arglbargl, etc.