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Hey, MRAs: If you don’t want people to associate you with hatred, don’t associate yourself with hate groups

MRAs: digging their own hole.

Here’s a bit of advice for Men’s Rights redditors and MRAs in general: if you don’t want people to associate the Men’s Rights movement with hatred, you should probably not associate yourselves with hate groups.

Yesterday, a fellow called heiligenschein posted a link in the Men’s Rights subreddit to a relatively new subreddit called simply SPLC, a subreddit set up by enemies of the Southern Poverty Law Center and devoted to, as heiligenschein put it, “compiling the numerous criticisms of the [SPLC].” As he explained in a comment:

That’s a somewhat odd criticism for heiligenschein, one of the moderators of the SPLC subreddit, to make. If you look at the front page of this subreddit, you’ll discover that he and his pals are already doing a fine job of associating themselves with “neo nazi nutters” all by themselves.

If you scroll through the links, you’ll notice that Heiligenschein has posted links to several different articles from VDare.com, which the SPLC describes as an “anti-immigration hate website” which “regularly publishes articles by prominent white nationalists, race scientists and anti-Semites.” Note to MRAs: if you’re disinclined to take the word of the SPLC on anything, all you need to do to get a sense of VDare’s genteel racism is to do a search on the site for, well, the word “racism,” or “immigrant.” Or you can read VDare founder Peter Brimelow’s repulsive victim-blaming post on the “root causes” of the Sikh temple murders in Wisconsin.

Heiligenschein  also links to the virulently anti-immigrant American Patrol Report and a Confederacy-loving group called the Georgia Heritage Council; a quick glance at either group’s website will reveal what sort of organizations these are. He also links to a pretty hateful site called A Voice for Men, which some of you may have heard of already.

But the connection to the racist far-right goes beyond a couple of links. The five other moderators of the r/splc subreddit – mayonesa, dvance, Octuple, salsaverde, warkin – are also the moderators of reddit’s race-obsessed “new right” subreddit. Some of the submissions in that subreddit at the moment:

18% of marriages by Chinese and Japanese Americans are to Jews. Thoughts?

The poison of multiculturalism

USA Olympic athlete waves Mex flag: propaganda-bearing parasite prole being used as an infectious agent by the master parasite class?

The not-so-fab five also moderate a smaller subreddit called “alternative right,” a dog-whistle term amongst the far right for (pseudo) intellectual racism and so-called “human biological diversity.” Some of the submissions there, all of them submitted by moderator Mayonesa:

Emo neckbeards having hategasm over pro-white flyer

“I believe Europe to be the ‘white man’s country’. If they don’t want non-whites among them, I think it’s fair.”

Diversity perversity: Behind multicultural push is effort to degrade American culture

The West has been seriously damaged by Communist successes at memetic subversion.

The five run at least two more subreddits devoted to this kind of crap.

Just so you know, MRAs, these are the sort of people you end up hanging out with once you join the SPLC anti-fan club.

Naturally, the handful of comments I found in the r/mensrights discussion on the subject pointing out that the r/splc moderators were a bunch of race-obsessed far-right extremists — see here, here, and here —  all got downvotes from the regulars there.

You’re digging your own hole here, MRAs.

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Sharculese
9 years ago

vdare has also spent the last two weeks vigorously defending the link between race and iq

Sharculese
9 years ago

vdare – not the no-sex-before-marriage website you’d guess it was from the name, yet somehow, so much worse

the twisted spinster
the twisted spinster
9 years ago

Wow, that Brimelow article on Vdare was… something else. I love his conclusion: apparently the reason Wade killed all those Sikhs was because they were taking all the taxi driver and trucking jobs. Bonus for bigotry against Sikhs for no fucking reason I can see, except that they’re weird foreign brown people with a weird religion that is weird and they shouldn’t be here in Christian White American because ahlaghG hasghdjkhas nngghhh Cthulhu nghlui f’thagnn ia ia!

the twisted spinster
the twisted spinster
9 years ago

They call themselves “Virginia Dare” after the first white person born on this continent, a.k.a., the first “anchor baby” since there were already people living here, people whose existence I can’t find any mention of beyond vague terms on their site (looking for “native americans” gets you tons of articles on Mexico, because Vdare is obsessed with Mexicans).

Noadi
Noadi
9 years ago

They call themselves “Virginia Dare” after the first white person born on this continent

They can’t even get their history right. Snorri Thorfinnsson was born in Vinland sometime between 1004 and 1013.

the twisted spinster
the twisted spinster
9 years ago

To be fair I think they refer to it as “first English person.” The Vdare dudes apparently don’t count the Vinland settlement as important because they’re fixated on the “British roots” of the USA. Here’s their rather incoherent explanation.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
9 years ago

Also, I don’t think anything outside of the continental US counts. Canada, Vinland, Mexico… Not American, so doesn’t count. And I don’t think Spain counts as European, because they’ve vaguely brownish.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

If Joe and Slavey are at all representative of the MRM the way they kept assuring me they are, well….

Reynardine
Reynardine
9 years ago

They’re exsartaginating, to be exact (ex= out of; sartago= frying pan)

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

No great surprise that the MRM is cozying up to racists, since most of them are. IIRC, one of them thought Stormfront was A-OK, but could take a harder stance on the wimmenz.

Sharculese
9 years ago

@hellkell

that was dkm right? and didn’t he end up getting banned because they didnt like the way he talked about white women?

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

Does this mean that they’re going to finally admit stuff now?

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
9 years ago

There are definitely different sets of MRAs. I get the feeling a lot of them are young men who legitimately feel put upon and lash out against women as if rights are a zero-sum game.

This unexamined butthurt is similar to racism but many non-racist MRAs don’t necessarily make the connection. They do seem genuinely surprised by something which seems so obvious from the outside.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

Yeah, they go “just because we think that one subset of people is worth less than another based on an arbitrary natural difference, why would you think we’d think that another subset of people are in any way worth less?”

Except for all the racists among them, who are like “what? No, they totally are!!! Shut up!!”

You’d think this schism would destroy them.

But, like Steele with Tom Martin, eventually they learn to live with each other. Because their main goal of tearing down feminism is way more important than little things like not accepting racists and pedophilia-apologists in their midst.

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

The MRA and Stormfronters are totes different, guys! One group thinks white women are so spoiled by feminists that they should date only ‘submissive’ foreigners, while the others think that foreigners are so evil that it’s much more important to get with a white woman and teach her proper white patriarchal values (I suppose by dick osmosis or something).

See. Nothing in common at all. Apart from the fact they’re always complaining about P.C. and Cultural Marxists and what not. And their hatred of all things women and foreign. And the fact they’re almost all white cis males. And… erm, wait, I think I’m destroying my own argument here.

whataboutthemoonz
9 years ago

This reminds me of an episode of HBO’s Newsroom in which a gay black man hates vaginas so much he campaigns for Santorum.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

that was dkm right? and didn’t he end up getting banned because they didnt like the way he talked about white women?

It could very well have been him.

nwoslave
9 years ago

The SPLC is group whose entire existance revolves around marxist critical theory, which is to criticize anything white European, Christian or male to bring about centralized, state marxist control. Feminism, being a marxist ideology of critical theory might revel in slaughtering a couple hundred million more white European Christians for shits and giggles, but many of us don’t care for that so much. Manboobzers, feminism and the SPLC complaining about hate groups is a bit like lions bitching those white, European, Christian men are just so darned stringy.

thebewilderness
9 years ago

I wish I could remember who said that these d00dz appear to think that the greatest achievement of their lives is to have been born white males.
I think it is a perfect description of the MRAs and their achievements.

often_partisan
often_partisan
9 years ago

I don’t get all this whargarbl about “Communists!!!” from the Right, I really don’t. For one, the Cold War is over. For two, America lacks notable figures that are as far left as social-democratic, let alone actual bona fide communists. As for the West more generally, communism has had more influence in some countries than others, but as far as I know not to the extent that they are secretly running everything through “memetic subversion”. I mean, everything is going the right wingers way at the moment with the cuts, austerity, etc. so why are they still whining about Commies under the bed like it’s the 1950’s?

Sharculese
9 years ago

because if you spent enough of your life straining to conflate ‘communists’ with ‘well-intentioned technocrats with a basic belief in a social safety net who more often than anything else err on the side of not doing enough’, then you eventually forget how to tell the difference

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

NWO, if feminism’s so fucking powerful, how is it that you’re still free?

Sharculese
9 years ago

The SPLC is group whose entire existance revolves around marxist critical theory, which is to criticize anything white European, Christian or male to bring about centralized, state marxist control. Feminism, being a marxist ideology of critical theory might revel in slaughtering a couple hundred million more white European Christians for shits and giggles, but many of us don’t care for that so much. Manboobzers, feminism and the SPLC complaining about hate groups is a bit like lions bitching those white, European, Christian men are just so darned stringy.

omigod this is almost the perfect distillation of owlslave

just needs more ranting about the jews

Sharculese
9 years ago

Manboobzers, feminism and the SPLC complaining about hate groups is a bit like lions bitching those white, European, Christian men are just so darned stringy.

i dont even get how this analogy is supposed to make sense. like, if the mras are too ‘stringy’ isnt that saying that their not tough enough? when do we complain about that? we most celebrate the fact that your pretend movement is confined to a tiny, irrelevant corner of the internet

and owlslave you get that the early christians werent nearly as white and european as you’d like them to be, right?

nwoslave
9 years ago

@often_partisan
“I mean, everything is going the right wingers way at the moment with the cuts, austerity, etc. so why are they still whining about Commies under the bed like it’s the 1950′s?”

Everyone here, every leftist, every feminist is a marxist.

Are you pro diversity?
Are you pro feminism?
Are you pro gay?
Do you cricitize the western values/tradition above all others?
Do you criticize white men above all others?
Do you criticize Christianity above all others?

This is all marxist critical theory. Yes to any of the above makes you a marxist. All of you are marxists. You deserve to be hated.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

@Hellkell: Becuz he’s constantly on the move, man, 16 hours a day, travelling incownito amongst a herd of cows in a cunning disguise (complete with udders), staying one step ahead of the Feminazi Death Squads that have been dispatched to dispatch him…..um, wait, I probably shouldn’t have said that, right? *erases frantically but just gets eraser dust in keyboard* Drat.

Hank
Hank
9 years ago

Mr Slave – if something is only a bit like something else then it’s not really a good analogy.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
9 years ago

incownito

Just that pun alone makes up for the Owly post above it. 😛

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Are you pro diversity?

This is a reason to be hated? Remind me again in what way you’re not racist?

Sharculese
9 years ago

owlslave you know karl marx was a white european man, right? or was there something wrong with the kind of white european man he was? i’m sure there’s something i remember, but i just cant put my finger on it…

Buttman
Buttman
9 years ago

It’s easy to label anyone as a hate group. They label ANY group who opposes immigration as a hate group. They label anyone who supports joint custody as a hate group. The point is that there is no sense in moderating your behaviour when you are going to be called a hate group anyways. I think the only way MRA’s are going to make progress is by becoming radicals like the leftists. We can do it. When you start messing with a man’s money and children, then you’re in trouble.

“I mean, everything is going the right wingers way at the moment with the cuts, austerity, etc. so why are they still whining about Commies under the bed like it’s the 1950′s?”

The revisionist history of liberals is hilarious. Under the bed? More than half of the world was covered with communist countries. The United States government was infested with communists prior to McCarthy. Fifth column commies gave the Soviets a nuclear weapon. Communism stretched into Germany. It was close to being in Spain thanks to international communists. You still have people claiming that Oswald was a racist instead of a Communist.

clairedammit
clairedammit
9 years ago

Are you pro diversity?
Are you pro feminism?
Are you pro gay?

This is all marxist critical theory. Yes to any of the above makes you a marxist. All of you are marxists. You deserve to be hated.

I deserve to be hated for not hating everyone else. Got it.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Ithiliana: incownito, that’s fucking brilliant.

NWO, I had no idea I was a Marxist. But yes, I am for all those things, more or less, with the added bonus that I can’t stand your dumb ass.

Sharculese: was he a…. JEW? (that was sounding like the SNL Church Lady when I typed that)

feministwiep
feministwiep
9 years ago

Very interesting. Not entirely surprising though. The MRAs remind me a lot of certain fundamentalist Christian sects in that…well, there isn’t very much that they seem not to hate. In fact anything even slightly different, any small level of dissent, is suspect, and then they are coming from a position where the group they represent has most of the power and wealth. Yep, makes sense in a twisted kind of way that they should find common cause with (notoriously anti-feminist and wholly xenophobic) fascists.

Hate always looks the same, really, doesn’t it?

Naira
Naira
9 years ago

I actually giggle a bit when NWO mentions Marxism or Marxist-inspired sub-theories. His hatred is the perfect antithesis to the highschool senior/college freshman who reads Marx for the first time and gets a wee bit to excited.

(though I would not bet that NWO has actually read any Marx)

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

@Buttman: “They label ANY group who opposes immigration as a hate group.”

Translated: “wwaaah, waaah, I said those people over there are subhuman animals and should be treated differently and less nicely than we treat nice white people and they said that makes me hateful!”

Newsflash: it does.

Karalora
Karalora
9 years ago

owlslave you know karl marx was a white european man, right? or was there something wrong with the kind of white european man he was? i’m sure there’s something i remember, but i just cant put my finger on it…

Oh! I know this one! It’s that he spoke SPANISH, right?

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
9 years ago

Hey if were gonna start with the bad puns again at least let me open some windows first!!

Illiathana, that pun stank like limburgh cheese. The brilliant ones always do.

Hank
Hank
9 years ago

Mr Slave – I’ve no commitment to the notion of a Marxist revolution so probably not a Marxist – however would recommend working the dialectic as a means of getting to understand another’s world view.

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
9 years ago

Yeah sorry nwo I guess being pro-diversity means I am a marxist which is bad and should be hated?

I dunno what that is suppose to mean anyway, we are not robots and cannot possibly be all the same. Why restrict people because of differences that harm no one? or is pro diversity about race? Thats what it usually stands for so yeah go ahead and call me hateful for thinking other races have a right to exist as well besides white people.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

Oh! I know this one! It’s that he spoke SPANISH, right?

That’s why the revolution happened in Russa—both languages use the Cyrillic alphabet, and so Marxist texts were easy to translate from one language to the other.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

I think the only way MRA’s are going to make progress is by becoming radicals like the leftists. We can do it. When you start messing with a man’s money and children, then you’re in trouble.

You do realize this would entail more than smashing your keyboards, right? You all can’t even get a meetup off the ground.

I do love how the only time MRAs seem to give a rip about their kids is when they can be used as a pawn against the ex-spouse. It really adds something to the hot mess that is the MRM.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

And yes, it’s Russa. Only Cultural Marxists call it Russia, land of diversity and gayness.

feministwiep
feministwiep
9 years ago

@slave @Buttman So the terms ‘feminist’, ‘marxist’ and ‘liberal’, among others, are just diverse (hah) ways of saying ‘evil baby-eating mass murdering Satanists’?

Well, thanks guys. I’ve learned something new today.

/fake gush mode

Pickle Jello
Pickle Jello
9 years ago

If that stuff makes me a Marxist, then I’m proud to call myself a Marxist.

often_partisan
often_partisan
9 years ago

@NWO – I actually am a socialist who at least partially agrees with Marxist theory and does use Marxist critique a lot, so yeah, if you want to call me a Marxist go for it.

Feminism does not come from Critical Theory. Feminism at least goes as far back as the 18th Century, Mary Wollonstonecraft and all that. I don’t get all of this “well critique of western values makes you a marxist” since wasn’t Marx part of the Western Enlightenment tradition (he did believe in freedom, reason and progress after all? While he did criticise the Enlightenment he did so from within the Enlightenment…) As for the “White men” thing, no I don’t, and I don’t get this one either. Marxism is a theory about CLASS, primarily, and a lot of white men, are you know, working class…I mean why associate Marxism with gays, women and cultural diversity and miss the bleedingly obvious? I don’t buy into any religion, the reason Christianity comes in for more criticism in Western nations is because it’s the dominant religion, not beceause it’s any better/worse than any other religion.

@Buttman – I wasn’t claiming that the Soviet Union et al. wasn’t a threat in the 1950’s. I’m just claiming that communism isn’t a threat now. There was paranoia during the 50s about communism, cos I’ve seen examples of the propaganda. “commies under the bed” was just a bit of a joke, okay? And I’m not a liberal, as I already said, I’m a socialist.

Freitag
Freitag
9 years ago

Are you pro diversity?
Are you pro feminism?
Are you pro gay?
Do you cricitize the western values/tradition above all others?
Do you criticize white men above all others?
Do you criticize Christianity above all others?

This is all marxist critical theory. Yes to any of the above makes you a marxist. All of you are marxists. You deserve to be hated.

*blink*
*blink*
*boggle*

Wow.

Am I pro diversity? Yes. I do not want to live in a vacuum populated only by clones of myself. That would be quite boring, not to mention impractical.

Am I pro feminism? Yes. I don’t see any reason why women shouldn’t be treated like human beings.

Am I pro gay? Yes. No-one has every been able to explain to me why Teh Gayz are so terrible. In what way does their existence do me any harm? Other than raising the blood pressure of Westboro Baptist members, what harm do they do to anyone?

Do I criticize western values/tradition above all others? No. I try to be a little more even-handed in my criticisms.

Do I criticize white men above all others? No. See above.

Do I criticize Christianity above all others? No. See above.

This is all marxist critical theory? “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

I deserve to be hated? I suppose in your mind, since I answered “yes” to three of your questions, then I deserve to be hated by people like you. Forgive me if I fail to dissolve into a sobbing heap of butthurt.

Here: Have a kitten.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
9 years ago

Freitag: Candidate for Best Manboobz Video 2012 right there! I love the bouncyness of the kitten and how the dog just doesn’t give any fucks. 😀

EEB
EEB
9 years ago

@nwoslave

And marxists deserve to be hated…why?

Oh, never mind, it’s clear your understanding of marxism is about as deep as a puddle. But considering your reading comprehension skills, that’s not suprising.

I am curious what the western values and traditions I’m supposed to criticize above all others are.

Your first three “accusations” are no-brainers. Duh. Manboobz is thankfully populated by a lot of decent people (a little corner of sanity on the internet), so of course we’re in favor of social justice. I’m sure most of us would happily plead guilty. Your next three claims, though…I dunno, I’ve been lurking here for a while, and I’ve never seen that. You have some evidence to back those up?

dumbassapostrophe
dumbassapostrophe
9 years ago

@Buttman

The point is that there is no sense in moderating your behaviour when you are going to be called a hate group anyways.

I’m pretty sure that NOT HATING will keep you from being labeled a hate group. Have you tried that? No? Quelle surprise.

Pleaseworkblockquotes, pleaseworkblockquotes.

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