So apparently I’m way off base with this “misogyny” thing. For example, I have been under the impression that I have been finding misogynistic stuff in the Men’s Rights subreddit, like, all the time. With upvotes, and everything. But evidently I’m wrong.
Because now ignatiusloyola, one of the subreddit mods, has done a very scientific study that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that, well, whatever misogyny is there is officially not a big damn deal.
Ig explains his protocol:
I did a quick scan of the first 400 comments on the list (100/page, 4 pages in). I scanned for words like “cunt” and “whore”, and read the context of these. I looked for the words “woman” and “women”, and read the context of these. I looked for “suffrage” and “vote” also.
I found two comments that used the word “cunt”, one of them was used to describe men, the other to describe a specific woman. The only instances of “whore” were “attention whore”.
There were two comments involving the word “woman” that generalized women with negative stereotypes.
“Suffrage” and “vote” instances did not involve any context that suggested that women did not deserve the right to vote.
How a person defines “hatred of women”, either loosely (suggestive from context, rather than explicit) or strictly (explicit statements), it is pretty clear that out of 400 comments, very few are misogynistic.
Does misogyny exist? Yes. But it does not seem to be a significant contribution to r/MensRights. At best, people are seeing a few comments and focusing on their existence while ignoring the rest.
It’s a lot like that time Michael Richards did that standup routine, and everyone focused on that one word he said, totally ignoring all the other words he used that were totally not racist slurs. I mean, yeah, he said that word a bunch of times, but it still made up a very small percentage of all the words he used that evening.
So that’s that, then. Misogyny, officially not a problem!
Or that would have been that, had Ig not actually posted about his experiment to the subreddit he had just proved was, like, totally non-misogynistic:
Because it turned out that a couple of the fellas had an issue with Ig’s methodology. In particular, that stuff about female suffrage. Because, apparently, you can totally be against women having the right to vote and still not be a misogynist. As zyk0s put it (garnering upvotes in the process):
[T]here’s the matter of female suffrage. I really don’t see how suggesting women should not have been granted the right to vote is misogyny. It might be motivated by it, but not necessarily so, and treating it as such is akin to criminalizing holocaust denial: it’s censorship, pure and simple, and if [1] /r/MR wants to keep calling itself an open space where ideas are not silenced, that attitude has to change.
Our friend Demonspawn went even further(and got a few upvotes himself):
Suggesting that the government works better without the women’s vote is not misogyny. It’s an analysis of the facts and the consequences of allowing women’s suffrage.
Suggesting that women retain the right to vote without the corresponding responsibilities that men face is misandry.
So there you have it. The Men’s Rights subreddit doesn’t have a misogyny problem; if anything, it’s a hotbed of misandry.
I think Calibri is a nice sans serif font; it’s no Helvetica, but it beats the crap out of Arial. But yes, defaulting to a serif font would be nice for actual writers!
My favorite font is gentium. It is pretty awesome:
@Nanasha
“Misogyny- the bigotry that keeps on blaming you for being a woman because REASONS but they wont tell you those reasons because women are too stupid to understand them.”
Misogyny is just a painfully silly word women use to relieve themselves from accountability of their words and actions. That hand’s been way overplayed.
When you say ridiculous things expect to be ridiculed.
When dress and act to arouse men don’t be surprised if it works.
Men are ridiculing women because you deserve to be ridiculed.
It’s like that whole Anita thing. She personally was being ridiculed because she deserved to be ridiculed. The poor thing felt slighted because fantasy game showed women as being fantasy beautiful. Well, DUH! Then she played the poor oppressed woman card and cried crocodile tears. Well her little crying game went viral and women everywhere cried in unison that fantasy women were too beautiful and it’s a sure sign of misogyny. Since all women suddenly agreed with Anita, all women deserve to be ridiculed for being just as ridiculous as Anita.
Stop being ridiculous and you won’t be ridiculed.
Freitag: OMG, that white one looks like a mini-Michelin Man.
@katz: Gentium sounds awesome. I admit I hadn’t thought too hard about diacritical marks. I kind of assumed that someone would have taken care of them by now. There’s that privilege again. Stupid American English, going without accent marks and making me look insulated on the Internet.
I do think Times New Roman is kind of invisible, in that it gets out of the way of content. People look at it and don’t go, “Oh look, TNR,” they read what the words say. Papyrus (for example) intrudes, it’s too intricate. I don’t know what it is about sans-serif fonts that turns me off.
I just revamped my resume using the Cambria font. Okay, or will I not get the job? 😉
Here’s a very smart cat to cheer up Viscaria:
Serifs lead the eye from one letter to the next, so serif fonts are easier to read and create less eyestrain than sans serif fonts. Of course, the simplicity of sans serif fonts can make them a better choice for labels, signs, etc.
Ooh, Gentium is unicode-compliant? Now I want to download that; it looks very nice. I am ALL about the extra glyphs, since I often work with what we in the library world like to call the “squiggly languages.”
Mute and in a burqa.
Seconding what everyone else has said about the quality of Viscaria’s comments. It’s not just that Viscaria’s comments are better than Steele’s, it’s that they are actually interesting and insightful.
This is Steele we’re talking about after all. I don’t think anyone else on this site writes their comments as badly as Steele does. And I’m including the trolls in this. Even Owly is a better writer. (Although, arguably, the content of Owly’s writing is worse. But the writing itself is better. At least Owly doesn’t seem to think that “irregardless” is a word.) The only commenter on this site who might give Steele a run for his money in the bad writing department is Joe, and that’s only because of his Caps Lock of Tage Wharblgarbl meltdown on the last thread.
@Cloudiah: Why do you need a resume? Just sit and cry in the middle of the street! People will offer you either money or violence.
I use Comic Sans for labels for certain files, because it’s obvious at a glance what’s an O or an o or a zero, and what’s an L or a small l (elle) or a Capital I (eye). And when you have multiple people doing mass filing and being constantly interrupted while doing it, I like to lessen the possibilities for errors.
Falconer, well OF COURSE I did that to actually get the job. The resume thing is because the HR women with their lace (or was it satin?) underwear say they need something for their files.
You don’t need a job anyway, Steele says we spend all our time on here commenting so you wouldn’t have time for one.
I wasn’t aware men had to do something special to be allowed to vote. What happens if men don’t do these “responsibilities”? Who keeps track of these? As far as I can tell, most of the women here are more productive than our male trolls (who seem to do nothing but troll internet sites), yet I’m presuming they haven’t lost their right to vote. Have all the MGTOW lost their right to vote? -_o
Also I’m curious what r/MR considers to be “real misogyny” given that they said it actually exists. I’d like to see what they consider to be misogyny. I suspect anything short of murdering a woman and screaming “I DID IT PURELY BECAUSE SHE’S A WOMAN AND I HATE HER AND IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF DIVORCE OR BEING FRIENDZONED OR ANYTHING, AND I GET TONS AND TONS OF SEX BUT I JUST HAD TO KILL HER FOR BEING A WOMAN.” would count, and even then we’d have to make sure that the guy wasn’t just being sarcastic and that the woman hadn’t entrapped him into killing her. xD
According to Demonspawn, or maybe it was the other dude, men all have to be conscripted to earn the right to vote. Apparently, if any men ever were subject to the draft, that means all men today are still subject to the draft, which is why he believes the argument that only men should vote isn’t misogynistic at all even if women do serve in the military. PLUS STOP CENSORING ME.
Or something like that. I am not going back over to r/mr to check because those dudes are annoying.
Honestly, if ignatiusloyola had said “I don’t believe misogyny does exist”, then that would make more sense to me, because then I can see how he says r/MR isn’t misogynist. Or that “sure this is misogynist, but it’s okay because it’s true”. As it stands, it makes him seem incredibly dishonest or so misogynist that all of the stuff normally written seems a-ok to him. (Or both)
Also. Women are not as mentally developed as men, and many never progress intellectually or emotionally beyond the age of thirteen.
There, I said something incredibly misogynist that didn’t use any “bad words”. And according to his scientific study, that wouldn’t ping for being misogynist. xD
Also, there are phrases/word usage that are misogynist (or that MRAs constantly use in misogynist ways) that he probably doesn’t count as such: “pussy pass” “friendzone” “hypergamy” “golddigger” “entrapment” “false rape” “entitled princess” etc…
Of course, he would probably point out none of that is misogyny because all of that are people merely saying what’s true, or categorizing how women DO behave. xD
It can’t be misogyny if we think it’s true!
Again, I’m rly curious what IS misogyny? It reminds me of white people who say that things are only racist if it’s “I HATE BLACK PEOPLE THOSE [N-WORD]S.” and not people who believe in say, the Bell Curve. As long as you hate a group for “reasons” then it’s not an -ism. Racism is if you hate black people for no reason. Transphobia is if you hate trans ppl for no reason. But if you say “TRANS PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO ENTRAP ME INTO GAY SEX” then that’s a reason and it’s not transphobia. e_e
My guilt at making this All About Me time is eclipsed by my delight at making this Adorable Animals time!
@cloudiah what difference would it make if only men voted anyways? Women have all the power. We have all the white knights. The white men in power represent themselves and us but not any other men. And women would still control the sexual economy and force men to vote their way. After all, the MRAs think that is how we controlled things before when we didn’t have the vote.
According to MRAs, since the beginning of time, women have been pampered princesses with men dying and slaving for us, and that was BEFORE we had the vote, abortion and contraception. So even if they got rid of the vote, how would anything change? Aren’t they doomed? Women have managed to be secretly in charge in every society and culture and time period (according to them) no matter WHAT happened. And if we’re secretly in charge now, then everything they’re doing is according to our design. How do they know the MRAs don’t exist as a false flag operation to create sympathy for feminism?
After all, America is a feminist state. The USSR was a feminist state. China is a feminist state. It sounds like even when there’s conflict, we control all the sides. I’m unsure how the MRAs can trust anything they do as not being part of our plan. xD
I spent my formative years in print journalism. I have some very strong preferences; bordering on reactionary.
I want serifs. I like the “Times” family of fonts. I think a point is a real unit of measurement (I once ran a test sheet, every font the machine knew, at 12 point, same words. The variation was from 9pt at the low end to not quite 15pt at the high end…. no wonder I couldn’t predict my inch count on those… grmnble).
I think think like comic sans, etc. are nice, but rarely for body type. I did like the Apple font “Present” for things like letters, ‘zines, etc.
Ami, you are giving away our super-secret, extra-confidential plan for world domination!!! No puppy videos for you!!! (Note: animal videos on the internet are the other way feminists control ALL THE THINGS.)
Viscaria rules! All hail Viscaria for bringing us the Adorable Animals, which is always very cool. Thank you!
I never understand the MRA thing where there’s this impossible to penetrate feminist conspiracy that controls everything yet the MRAs are only a few steps away from winning. They really have learned their entire worldview from movies. xD It’s like Star Wars… victory is only a proton torpedo and an Emperor plummeting into an energy shaft away!
They don’t understand how real political change or movements work at all. (and that’s ignoring that they aren’t the oppressed rebels, that there’s no feminist conspiracy and that so far, none of them have been scooped away for being MRAs, etc etc ) They really do think it’s “I’m the hero unit who is going to rise up and in the span of a 2 hour movie (or 3 2 hour movies) topple the fascist state controlling everything and free everybody!” XD
It also explains why nothing happens because they’re waiting for that one moment rather than understanding how actual activism/social work/etc works.
If Owly comes along and takes Ami seriously, it might just be hilarious. Or terrible and Owlyish, it could go either way.
“Suggesting that women retain the right to vote without the corresponding responsibilities that men face is misandry.”
As a woman who spent 9 years in the military (National Guard) and who pays more in taxes than most of those cretins probably earn in a year, I’d love to have them try to justify why I should not have the right to vote.
I want Steele to come along and take Ami seriously. I think that would be… Well, I don’t know how it would be, but I’d love to see it.