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Here’s the video of the Al Jazeera English show featuring Helen Lewis and Rebecca Watson, among others, and me.

It’s  pretty good show. Most of the discussion involves social media researcher and Fordham professor Alice Marwick and Helen Lewis of the New Statesman. Those of us in the Google+ Hangout pop in briefly with comments and questions.

FWIW, I appear only briefly in the show proper, but I have a somewhat longer (and a bit more coherent) comment in the ten minute “online only” portion that immediately follows the show (and which is also on this video).

It was a somewhat strange, if educational, experience, my first appearance on TV. (The next time I get webcammed into a show, I won’t reflexively look down at the laptop while talking.) It all went by really, really quickly. Weirdly frantic behind the scenes as the producer tried to slot us all in.

The comments on the video on YouTube nicely  illustrate the problem we were discussing; that is, they are a rancid pile of misogynistic shitlordery.

My favorite comment is this one from Urhoboman5 about Rebecca Watson:

At 5;30 that chick has a youtube channel. Just type in rebecca feminist and you’ll find it. Interesting how most of her videos are voted down. Sometimes as much as 80% negative because the stuff she says is pure nonsense.

That’s right. He actually thinks that the fact that her videos are targeted by downvote squads proves that she’s wrong to talk about harassment. She’s harassed by dudes who don’t like her talking about harassment so therefore it’s “nonsense” for her to talk about harassment. Brilliant.

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Sharculese
8 years ago

because your a reactionary nationalist asshole, duh

clairedammit
clairedammit
8 years ago

The First Joe, is this all because David was interviewed by Al Jazeera? You know that doesn’t makes all Islamic homophobes, right?

Sharculese
8 years ago

it’s kind of amusing how joe too stupid to come up with a comeback besides ‘nuh-uh y-y-youre the racist’

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Joe, shut the fuck up. Your caps lock ragey tantrums aren’t fooling anyone, ya racist, misogynistic crank.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

I’m MIXED RACE, why the FUCK would I support a bunch of RACIST fucks like the BNP!

Because you lack the wit to understand the difference between recognizing someone is downtrodden and acknowledging that person’s misbehavior?

Anathema
Anathema
8 years ago

Joe, we don’t like homophobia regardless of who it comes from. No one here is going to argue that homophobia is ay-okay as long as it comes from Muslims.

So why are you so angry with us?

Feminism rulez 4 eva
Feminism rulez 4 eva
8 years ago

NWO slave is the only smart person in here. The rest of you are losers.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Joe’s angry because a.) he can’t read, and b.) the mind rays are telling him to be.

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

Pear_tree said:

“Interesting so not believing all Muslims are evil is racist. You learn something new every day.”

No. Failing utterly to condemn evil thuggery by extremist Islamists who are actually fucking attacking people is racist. It’s racist because the people who pander to these evil thugs believe Islam = a race and they are putting this FICTIONAL race of Islam above all other people. THAT IS RACIST.

“Two things, the attack was horrendous and there are no excuses. ”

Thank you for saying that. You will be astonished to here that across two separate threads with several posts repeating the point, you are the FIRST and so far ONLY manboobzer to even give a flying fuck about a young gay man who was beaten and stabbed multiple times and left paralysed.

And the reason for that? Is your fellow manboobzers are racists who put the FICTIONAL race of Islam above everybody else. This young gay man happened to be a white person, it is VERY telling that no-one else here stopped even for a moment to condemn the violence he suffered.

“However, the BBC article neither mentions the sexual orientation of the victim or the religion of the perpetrator. It is horrific he did such a thing and boasted about it. I don’t see how it is proof if Muslim homophobia.”

I strongly suggest you read the article by Johann Hari – he writes for The Independent newspaper here in the UK, and actually lives IN that neighbourhood – I already quoted it at length, but here’s the link again:

http://johannhari.com/2011/02/25/can-we-talk-about-muslim-homophobia-now/

See also this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

I’m MIXED RACE, why the FUCK would I support a bunch of RACIST fucks like the BNP!

I got a BLACK DADDY (or MOMMY) that means I’m NOT RACIST and can’t be held accountable when I rail against MUSLIM GAY BASHERS.

Dude, we got Christian gay bashers over here. It’s so bad someone can set fire to a box of Cheerios on the lawn of General Mills (shortly, a box of Cheerios AND the lawn of General Mills) while attacking them for being pro-gay, and everyone correctly assumes this guy is a fundie Christian.

But your big thing is MUSLIM GAY BASHERS. Do you have no Christian or secular gay bashers in Murrie Olde Engelond?

Sharculese
8 years ago

joe is indignant as fuck about a dumb persons definition of what racism is

Sharculese
8 years ago

But your big thing is MUSLIM GAY BASHERS. Do you have no Christian or secular gay bashers in Murrie Olde Engelond?

youve confused joe with someone who’s interested in solving things. he’s only interested in blaming things on people he doesnt like. being a dumb right wing racist, that adds up to a lot of people.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

… how does one do red commando?

Jock itch?

Anathema
Anathema
8 years ago

Hey, Joe! We condemn homophobia. A homophobe can be a member of any race or religion. No matter what race or religion any given homophobe happens to be a member of, homophobia sucks.

If someone attacks someone else for being gay, that’s wrong. Come to that, violently assaulting people is wrong in general, no matter what the motivations of the attacker are.

IT IS WRONG AND WE CONDEMN IT.

How clear do I have to make this?

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
8 years ago

Jonathan Hari has also been discredited for making up interviews, and quoting from other sources as if he was the interviewer.

It is interesting from a Google nothing before 2010 mentions his sexual orientation, and the only report in 2009 that mentions where he was going says an off-licence with a female friend. This disagrees with later reports which suggests he left the George and Dragon. The contradictions between the reports are intriguing. It surprises me the Daily Mail would cover up Islamic homophobia. However, it may be legal limits on what they can say as there wasn’t enough evidence for a hate crimes charge.

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

@Anathema – fuck all this “code words” and “dog whistles” bollocks.

Let’s get something clear:
Here in the UK, hell, even here in my smallish town we have (just off the top of my head) Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Nepalese, Afro-Carribean, Zimabawean, South African, Nigerian, Ghanian, Tanzanian, Malawian, Chinese, Korean, Polish, Spanish, Portugese, US, Canadian & South American people. People of pretty much every colour and creed on Earth. If I walk down my street and pass 20 people, odds are about 15 of them will not be speaking English. And you know what? I’m totally cool with that. Actually, I’d say there’s a lot to love about living in such a cosmopolitan place.

I am NOT cool with violent fascist fuckbags of any colour or creed. (Fuck off BNP!)

What’s more:

The odds are that the young muslim man who stabbed Olly Hemsley was not an immigrant.
EXTREMIST Islam is not very frequent among first generation immigrants to the UK (probably because many of them fled brutally oppressive Sharia type regimes) EXTREMIST Islamism is more frequent among 2nd or 3rd generation muslims who were born here – i.e. BRITISH muslim people, there’s also a fair few indigenous converts who wind up as extremists (Richard Reed “the shoeb0mb3r”) ….

xardoz
8 years ago

Joey Joe-Joe Jr. Shabadoo reminds me of something I read on SRS.

Men’s Rights is a social justice cargo cult. They use the terminology social justice in bizarre and primitive matters.

“People use these words and society slowly changes. Perhaps if I use those words…”

Here’s a link to wikipedia because I’m sure Joe has no idea what “cargo cult” means.

tasblacksmith
tasblacksmith
8 years ago

@The First Joe
of course you support the BNP and the EDL, why? Because your hatred of Muslims and your general xenophobia is overpowering. And because you are regurgitating verbatim EDL talking points regarding ‘Islam not a race’
And you express concern for gay stabbing victims of ‘muslim’ offenders, because you view these victims as useful to your agenda. Otherwise I doubt you would give a shit.
I still have fond memories of Antifa in the eighties and early nineties in London. Ass kicking boneheads and watching them run.
Mixed race is not an excuse for being a tosser.

cloudiah
8 years ago

J03 1s k1nd 0f all 0v3r th3 plac3. But h3 ha5 cau53d my typ1ng t0 b3 m0r3 cr3ativ3, 1’11 g1v3 h1m that.

clairedammit
clairedammit
8 years ago

… how does one do red commando?

Jock itch?

Sunburn!

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

30 seconds on google tells me that the head of the British Equality & Human Rights Commission believes that Christian homophobes are a bigger problem in the UK than Muslim homophobes. Go take it up with him.

tasblacksmith
tasblacksmith
8 years ago

@The First Joe
everybody agrees that people who commit crimes are criminals and should be dealt with by the law. Criminals stab people. If you would recognise that first, then maybe you can then talk about their motivation, Calmly. You asshole.

scrapemind
8 years ago

Joey Joe-Joe Jr. Shabadoo reminds me of something I read on SRS.

Men’s Rights is a social justice cargo cult. They use the terminology social justice in bizarre and primitive matters.

“People use these words and society slowly changes. Perhaps if I use those words…”

If SRS said that, then they got something right. The game is rigged.

WWWWolf
WWWWolf
8 years ago

Dumb YouTube comment:

> Interesting how most of her videos are voted down. Sometimes as much as 80% negative because the stuff she says is pure nonsense.

Relying on online voting to gauge veracity?

On YouTube?

*sigh*

Son, let me just quote the wise words of CmdrTaco, on topic of online polls: “This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you’re using these numbers to do anything important, you’re insane.”

And that’s “important” as in having a coherent plan for using the poll results. Using a poll to determine truth of arguments is as stupid methodology as they come. All a poll can, in this case, to determine is whether or not the opinion is unpopular – and if it stuck the nerve of votebotters, you can start asking why they’re unpopular opinions.

Molly moon
Molly moon
8 years ago

Joe, what’s the difference between a fictional race and a real race?

tasblacksmith
tasblacksmith
8 years ago

” there’s also a fair few indigenous converts who wind up as extremists (Richard Reed “the shoeb0mb3r”) ….”

Joe don’t you mean Richard Reed “the shoe bomber”? Oh no what have I done! Quick put your tin foil hat on Joe, THEY are coming to get us.

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

@Falconer – This is my impression of Xtianity here in the UK (bear in mind I’m atheist so this an outsiders view):

Indigenous Xtianity (CoE) is dying a slow death, the UK is mostly secular.
CoE was always a pretty weaksauce religion anyway being as Henry VIII founded it so he could steal all the Chuch property in England, marry who he wanted and give the finger to Rome.
CoE anti-gayness tends to be whinging bishops against gay marriage (wankers) or the odd weirdo running a little hotel who gets sniffy with a gay couple (and gets sued for it).

In towns / cities that got a lot of Polish people settled after WWII the Polish Catholic churches are pretty bustling since the EU brought in a second “wave” of Polish folks. I’ve not come across any reports of gay-bashing by Polish people (that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen).

British Quakers are happy to marry gay people.

There is nothing like the organised Xtian homophobia that you have in the US.
Scotland just legalised gay marriage and England will soon follow, it has cross party support in Parliament.
It’s pretty well accepted being gay here vs. the US afaik.
I see gay couples walking around hand in hand in my town a fair bit, have never seen anyone have a go at them.

This is NOT to say that there are no Xtians or secular homophobes out there bashing gays, it’s probable that gay lads get bashed on nights out sometimes, but it only gets reported when it’s really extreme (fatal or close to) or OBVIOUSLY targeted at gay people – because there’s so much routine, drunken violence in the UK it gets lost in the noise.

I know there must be SOME, because I used to work with a big strong gay lad who was all flamboyant (carried his handbag) and also as hard as nails (he was trained in the martial art Sabat) who told me he used to go out gay-gay-bashing – i.e. he’d wander about until a drunk arsehole tried to attack him for being gay and then batter the homophobic fuckwit.

My point: while it’s obvious even from over here that homophobia is a big deal among organised Xtians in the USA, it’s not the case in the UK anymore (although that was not the case in 50 odd years ago e.g. the dreadful post-war persecution of the hero Alan Turing. Which the last UK gov’t issued a formal apology for. For what that’s worth.).
As I say, organised homophobia in the UK right now comes mainly out of EXTREMIST Islamism (adherents of which, may be of any race).

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

NO! You mean TH3Y are coming to get u5!

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

(Richard Reed “the shoeb0mb3r”) ….

You fool!

You utter fool!

THOSE ARE ARABIC NUMERALS!!

tasblacksmith
tasblacksmith
8 years ago

@The First Joe
summary and fix

“As I say, organised homophobia in the UK right now comes mainly out of EXTREMIST religious organisations (adherents of which, may be of any faith, race and even mixed race).”

There thats better.

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

@tasblacksmith –

“@The First Joe
of course you support the BNP and the EDL, why? ”

FUCK OFF YOU RACIST ARSEHOLE!

“Because your hatred of Muslims and your general xenophobia is overpowering. And because you are regurgitating verbatim EDL talking points regarding ‘Islam not a race’”

UTTER BULLSHIT! The EDL is a bunch of footy hoolies but even a stopped clock is right twice a day!
YOU ARE A MORON:
Millions of Chechens, Kazakhs and Bosnians are WHITE people and they are MUSLIM.
Millions of Morrocans, Malians and Sudanese are BLACK people and also MUSLIM.
Millions of Saudis, Yemenis, Omanis are Arabic people and also MUSLIM.
Millions of Pakistanis and Indonesians are Asian people and also MUSLIM.

No matter how much you are DESPERATE to magic it into a race, ISLAM IS NOT A RACE, YOU RACIST IDIOT!

“And you express concern for gay stabbing victims of ‘muslim’ offenders, because you view these victims as useful to your agenda. Otherwise I doubt you would give a shit.”

I EXPRESS CONCERN FOR THOSE GAY PEOPLE GETTING STABBED BECAUSE THEY COULD BE MY FRIENDS GETTING STABBED! YOU UTTER SHITBAG!

FUCK YOU!

Sharculese
8 years ago

joe you realize how desperate and unhinged these rants make you sound, right?

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

@tasblacksmith – can you link to ANY other religion CURRENTLY in the UK that is engaged in a hate campaign of violence and harrassment of gay people??

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

Best. Meltdown. Ever!

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

I EXPRESS CONCERN FOR THOSE GAY PEOPLE GETTING STABBED BECAUSE I CAN USE IT TO JUSTIFY MY RACISM!

Anyone else read that like that?

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

@Sharculese – Fuck off, racist.

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

@lowquacks – FUCK YOU TOO, RACIST.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

@The First Joe

Multiple branches of Christianity?

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

I EXPRESS CONCERN FOR THOSE GAY PEOPLE GETTING STABBED BECAUSE THEY COULD BE MY FRIENDS GETTING STABBED!

BY MUSLIMS!

So go find us news stories of non-Muslims stabbing gay people, you’re so concerned about the gays.

You’ll probably tell me to do my own Googling.

But it’s perfectly okay to lay out “evidence” you found by Google and misrepresentation when it’s MUSLIMS doing the gay bashing.

And you don’t f34r the Qu4k3rs.

fembot
8 years ago

Joe is having a serious meltdown. Dude, go take a chill pill.

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

Every single one of you supporting, excusing and pandering to violent homophobes because you believe they belong to a special magic race (that doesn’t even exist, you morons!) – is a RACIST FUCKBAG!

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Wait, I thought I was a homophobe who wanted Muslims to murder all gay people, or something, not a racist, because something something fictional race.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

@lowquacks —

Anyone else read that like that?

Yep.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Wow! Racist labels are flying around everywhere on this thread. “You’re a racist!” “No, you’re a racist!” “You’re a racist and a homophobe!”

Quite frankly, some of you, and you know who you are, spend way too much time on this web site having hategasm after hategasm. Your lives must suck pretty bad.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Shorter Joe:

5upport1ng 1sl@m = H0MOPH0B1A!!!!!! = Racism, som3how?

fembot
8 years ago

Every single one of you supporting, excusing and pandering to violent homophobes because you believe they belong to a special magic race (that doesn’t even exist, you morons!) – is a RACIST FUCKBAG!

No, I’m not (what are we talking about again?)

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Well, not even “supporting Islam”, just “not being Islamophobic” or “supporting the rights of Muslims not to be discriminated against for their religion”.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

Every single one of you supporting, excusing and pandering to violent homophobes because you believe they belong to a special magic race (that doesn’t even exist, you morons!) – is a RACIST FUCKBAG!

Help me get all this straw into the barn. We’ve got enough here for a double-sized Halloween maze this year.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

BTW Joe, I’m a libertarian feminist. I’m nowhere near being communist.