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The Internet finds yet more women to hate

Pissed off cats: Much more entertaining than pissed-off dudes on the Internet

So yesterday, I appeared (albeit very briefly) on TheStream on Al Jazeera English along with Helen Lewis of the New Statesman, social media researcher Alice Marwick, Skepchick blogger Rebecca Watson, and others. The topic: online misogyny and harassment of women. No sooner had the show ended than I ran across two perfect examples of precisely the sort of misogynistic harassment we’d  just been talking about, courtesy of Reddit and Roosh.

First, Reddit. On Monday, Forbes columnist Kashmir Hill – female, beep boop! – wrote a piece mocking the notion (apparently widespread in some circles) that in these hyper-connected days people without Facebook accounts are a bit suspect. But part way along towards making her point she committed the terrible error of making the following not-to-be-taken-literally remark:

We’re “addicted” to our iPhones, and Facebook, and Twitter, and Android, and Pinterest, and iPads, and Word with Friends, and fill-in-the-blank-with-your-digital-dope-of-choice.

Not literally true, or meant to be taken as such, but a fairly commonplace observation.

Yet it managed to enrage one dude in a Reddit discussion of her piece, who offered this response (which I am hoping is also not to be taken literally):

To the writer: I’m not addicted to any of that, you stupid cunt.

Damn, this “article” is so full shit I’m seriously considering becoming a mass murderer.

This being Reddit, his comment got, last I checked, ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIVE upvotes, and 727 downvotes, for a net score of 1071.

Never mind that the Forbes writer put “addiction” in ironic quotes. Never mind that she was suggesting it’s a bad idea to assume that anyone without a Facebook account is a psychopath.

None of that matters, because a dude on Reddit who obviously only skimmed the first paragraph of her piece decided she needed to be taken down a peg.

HOW DARE SHE MENTION PINTEREST I’M NOT ADDICTED TO THAT SHIT I ONLY SPEND MOST OF MY LIFE ON REDDIT POSTING DOZENS OF COMMENTS A DAY.

(Which the guy actually does, by the way.)

I doubt that many of the upvoters really had much of an opinion of the issues at hand; they were, I imagine, just happy for the chance to upvote some dude calling a woman on the internet a cunt.

Meanwhile, over on Blag Hag, skeptic blogger Jen McCreight found herself the target of a fellow we here at Man Boobz have been coming to know quite well: Roosh “When No Means Yes” Valizadeh, the, er, dating guru. McCreight, you see, recently took aim at a post of Roosh’s that argued, with the help of a little homemade chart, that educated women are “boner killers.”

His response to her takedown? A tweet with her picture attached to it and the question “would you date this girl?”

Naturally, that was all it took to unleash a this torrent of tweets from Roosh’s fans:

Other dudes popped into her comments section and offered more detailed assessments of what they saw as her deficiencies in the boner-inducing department. According to a fellow called Karl:

Your overall level of physical attractiveness (negative 10, if your photo is anything to go by) is enough to keep self-respecting, non-totally-desperate men away from you. Misogynistic or not. Your level of education has nothing to do with it.

Happily, McCreight has thick skin, and doesn’t particularly care that men she finds repugnant aren’t interested in dating her. But not everyone does.

As harassment goes, these aren’t even particularly egregious examples. This is just the sort of stuff that happens every single day to women on the internet who have the temerity to say things that some dude, or some dudes, don’t much like.

Ironically, I wrote about the same Roosh post more than a year ago. Yet none of his fans showed up in the comments here to tell me they wouldn’t date me.

Oh, sure, I get lots of shit from the MRAs of the world. Heck, after hearing about my Al Jazeera appearance, our old friend ThePigman had this to say about me on Reddit yesterday:

For the sake of those who will be watching i really hope Dave wears both his paper bag and a girdle.

But the thing is, I’ve written literally 800 posts about misogynist assholes like ThePigman and Roosh, and the worst thing they can think to say about me (aside from pointing out my weight) is that I’m a not a real man – that I’m a “mangina,” a “dickless wonder,” “such a girl,” “Little Ms. David.” (Those last three quotes are from some of the first truly nasty comments I got back on this blog shortly after starting it in 2010. ThePigman, with his talk of girdles, continues on in this fine tradition.)

As the case of Forbes’ Kashmir Hill  and her Reddit detractors above makes clear, women can get even more violent responses after writing only a single sentence that somehow, even due to a gross misreading, pisses off some dude on the internet.

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indifferentsky
8 years ago

These guys are over 18? I take issue with the title calling them The Internet. Don’t they already have a skewed view of reality?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Well, they’re angry at us for fearing for our safety too, sometimes. Depends what point they’re currently trying to make about the ways in which women are evil.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

Continuing for earlier, my apologies, I guess I should have specified, what I meant to get across was that it really disturbs me that such hateful sentiment infects more corners of the internet than just reddit. Reddit is a given, and I do still browse it for the content, but large swathes of the community seem to be some of the most hateful people I have the displeasure of reading comments by. And while I find it’s less common on other parts of the internet, It still happens disturbingly often, I guess I have to ask, why is there so much hatred in the world? I know that that might come across as somewhat naive of me, but I seriously can’t figure it out.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

What is so weird is that Jen from BlagHag got attacked by someone on scienceblogs awhile back for being too attractive (suggesting that she got special favors in college as a result).

Oh yeah, women can’t win, have you noticed? Notice what happens to the ones we’re supposed to think have it all. Roles appear to be more limited as social/financial ladders are climbed. So while men can say, that male privilege you speak of does not apply to the lower classes for men, I can say, true to a point ( some privilege never dies because it’s relative) but for women… i’ts pretty sad that feminism ceases to be relevant no matter the station or access to resources. Do we think “trophy wives” have it easy? And no I’m not kidding, being quite serious. People spend a lot of time hating. ‘beautiful’ and wealthy people, so it’s hard to bring up without people maybe thinking you’re joking or upset for these people when there are more important things to worry about. I’m saying when I look at what’s supposed to be the best of the best for women in any walk of life, I realize feminism is a slam dunk, there’s no denying the need for it.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

” why is there so much hatred in the world? I know that that might come across as somewhat naive of me, but I seriously can’t figure it out.”

I know.
It’s a different mindset than you or I have apparently. It takes a lot of figuring out if you don’t really get it. I think I’ve got it. There are some people that are convinced everything is a survival game, and that things move in a linear shape. Not to mention the infection of culture. Throw in issues of emotional need that we all have and a malfunctioned ego and wallah. Recipe for a narcissist society. Narcissist doesn’t just mean people that look in the mirror, they are people whose existence and feelings of well being revolve around persona, identity and external specialized perceived admiration. Failing to get their perceived needs met is tantamount to attempted murder and you will get your eyes scratched out. Unfortunately this empty misfire happens in any group, even any political group. And it’s not about just “ego”. That’s common to people, but it’s about having that as their only MO, the center of their universe. I think this is why it’s so invisible, because the problems with these people and a culture that swims in this, is that each component of it is somewhat normal.

Immir
8 years ago

“They’re not angry about women fearing for their safety; they’re angry that women speak up about it and try to make it change”

THIS

thebewilderness
8 years ago

More than anything they remind me of the men who have pissed and moaned over “the servant problem” generation after generation for the past two hundred years. They just can’t get good help these days. Poor things, how they suffer.

Nada
Nada
8 years ago

Can someone just figure out ow men can give birth, already? They’re clearly so incredibly angry and jealous, I fear it’s the only solution.

fembot
8 years ago

When you have any disagreement with a woman, whether about politics, culture, or deep philosophical issues, just call her a c*nt, that we all can hate her for being a woman, and not have to expand any energy in having to refute her ideas. These guys are so smart!

fembot
8 years ago

Maybe as people can increasingly express their anti-social tendencies anonymously online, face to face interactions between humans will become more polite. I can only hope. Sigh.

pecunium
8 years ago

They also whine about women who fear for their safety. It’s wrong to be afraid that any one might rape you. It’s wrong not to trust the guy who offers you a lift when you have a flat; or to help you take the groceries to the car, etc.

fembot
8 years ago

But if you do take a ride from a stranger and end up getting raped, it’s your fault.

DumbassApostrophe
DumbassApostrophe
8 years ago

Is anyone on here a couchsurfer? Roosh and his cronies talk a lot about hooking up on CS and the best ways to go about it. When the greater CS community got wind of it about a month ago, all hell broke loose in the Roosh forums. The women* coming out against these “harmless” PUAs creeping up their towns did so on the CS website, so they weren’t even on the Roosh forum AFAIK. Nonetheless, the PUAs’ primary counterargument was to post pictures of from the women’s CS profiles on the Roosh forum so that their relative hotness could be rated. The vast majority of them were, of course, deemed to be too ugly to have to worry about falling into the clutches of a PUA. Worse, though, were the women who, while not “high quality females” all in all, did have certain body parts that would be worth “sticking a dick into”.

I’m a couchsurfer myself, so I found this particular shitstorm to be utterly fascinating. Thankfully, reading this forum has hardened me off a bit when it comes to the horrible shit people say about women, so I was able to kept the audible cries of disgust to a respectable minimum.

*and men, but as the OP already said, it’s the women who get more abuse

fembot
8 years ago

In Roosh’s mind, women only exist to be sex objects for men, so if a woman is not attractive to men, she has no reason to live. By calling her unattractive, he is basically telling her that she is worthless and should not even continue to live. I guess it hasn’t occured to him that women exist independently of what men think of them. They are even capable of thriving without male approval. Who would have thought?

Dumbass Apostrophe
Dumbass Apostrophe
8 years ago

It’s as though women were people or something! Fancy that!

fembot
8 years ago

Really, the way some of these guys refer to women as “pussy,” as though we are some resource to be rationed like gasoline or water. It makes me sick.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

aworldanonymous: There are shitty people around. I might be wrong here, but I have a feeling shitty is easier to spot on a trawl of internets than caring and unprejudiced, especially as a good chunk of being unprejudiced involves not drawing any attention to it…

eline
eline
8 years ago

I was just about to say, “you know, I don’t usually call people childish, but these dudes behave like third graders.” and then I read the first comment on this page from Sharculese saying the exact same thing.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

The sharkster is an ever-present ninja. Many a time have I thought something just in time to read him saying it.

I bask in the ninjatude.

eline
eline
8 years ago

*raises hand* another couchsurfer here, btw (who ironically hooked up with a host more than half a decade ago, and saying it like that makes it sound like a Very Long relationship). I’m not super-active after moving though, so I haven’t seen any of this. I’m glad it’s causing an outrage, because it’s so against what everyone else surfs for.

Dumbass Apostrophe
Dumbass Apostrophe
8 years ago

@eline

Agreed, and I don’t think there’s any shame in hooking up with other couchsurfers as long as it’s not predatory, and when you look at the things the dudes on that site say, well, predatory is one of the nicer words I can think of to describe their behavior.

I’m not as active a couchsurfer as I used to be, but now I at least know that I was right to trust my gut when I turned down some of the people I did.

eline
eline
8 years ago

@Dumbass Aposthrope

Yeah, the default expectation should be “no expectations” when it comes to sex, relationships etc. and it IS just that. A good number of people will fall in love and begin a relationship, be it a fling or a lifelong one. It’s kinda impossible to avoid with any human social interaction. But it’s not nice to think that your guest might be an asshole trying to get into your pants. Disgusting abuse of goodwill of others, and this kind of jackassery could end up ruining reasonably priced traveling for a lot of people if people can’t trust each other anymore. It’s especially a shame for guys who have no ulterior motives. This is in fact misandry from the PUAs, they’re playing the trust system so that men might get shafted and rejected from more couches than women, because you don’t know what kind of predator wants to sleep on your sofa. The reputation system works for older members but newer guys could potentially have a problem if these assholes actually start doing this.

But they don’t really care about other men’s reputation and trustworthiness. It’s all the same to them as long as they get to try to rape more… sorry, get more pussy. Yet if it actually happens they will blame women, especially if and when they themselves get shafted.

jodioli
8 years ago

I’m a couchsurfer, too. I do a lot of hosting. Besides the non-USians who are traveling Route 66, my other surfers are mostly young women or very young men because they feel safe staying with someone the age of their moms. I’ve surfed a bit myself as well, but it has never actually occurred to me to hook up with anyone (I always choose people I think I could be friends with, or who interest me), although if I were single, it would be an interesting way to meet people who might turn into a relationship given time.

One young woman who stayed with me recently told me that she got a few unsolicited couch offers from men who “creeped her out”, so I wonder if these (or similar) guys were trying to hit on her.

Couchsurfing is very much a trust-based enterprise. I’ve only had one bad experience out of almost a hundred, and it was all about the surfers treating me like my home was some kind of hotel (annoying, but not creepy or scary).

Dumbass Apostrophe
Dumbass Apostrophe
8 years ago

I can attest to getting creepy couch requests. Sometimes it’s just because the person sending the request has no information on their profile, which naturally makes me uneasy. Other times it’s the content of the references. If a guy has no references from women, or if the references from women are rated as “Positive” but the content is very general and superficial like “he was interesting”, it sends up a red flag. Usually people won’t write a negative reference just because a person makes them feel a little uncomfortable, so as a potential host or surfer you end up having to read in between the lines a lot.

In all my years as a couchsurfer, I have yet to have a negative hosting experience. Contrary to what the guys on that silly forum say (paraphrased: all women are freeloaders who don’t host and just want to stay at poor unsuspecting men’s places for nothing), I do way more hosting than surfing, mostly because of the nature of my job, but also because I’m a bit scared of assholes.

David K. Meller
David K. Meller
8 years ago

“Internet finds more women to hate”

Not surprising for a blog that should call itself “womenbenghateful.com”. If women–or more specifically feminists–would stop being hateful, hatred for them would disappear overnight!

I have, on other posts, suggested what feminists can do to stop being hateful. Be more feminine, alluring, dainty, affectionate, domestic, and compliant. for starters. On the other hand, modern women, like those infesting too much of the internet, display exactly the opposite traits, being competitive, angry, hostile, pushy, and just plain HORRID!

No wonder there is hatred of women (so-called) on the internet.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
8 years ago

Hahaha DKM…

“Stupid women wouldn’t be hated if they would just adhere to all these misogynistic ideas I have!!!”

Thank you. I needed a laugh.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

You need to learn what “exactly opposite” means, none of those words are the opposite of the other ones.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

If women–or more specifically feminists–would stop being hateful, hatred for them would disappear overnight!

You first, buddy.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

I have, on other posts, suggested what feminists can do to stop being hateful. Be more feminine, alluring, dainty, affectionate, domestic, and compliant.

“if only women would stop being people and instead become frilly doormats that smell good…I still would be unsatisfied because I am actually an insufferable ass.”

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

I have, on other posts, suggested what feminists can do to stop being hateful. Be more feminine, alluring, dainty, affectionate, domestic, and compliant.

Looks like Meller’s going definition of hateful is “not a stereotype from the Jetsons.”

pecunium
8 years ago

Deke: Lead by example bro! If men weren’t so hateful women would have nothing to complain about.

So the way, let us see how non-hating works. You can do it. I know you can.

thebewilderness
8 years ago

DKM with his rendition of the abusers lament.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Shorter Meller: be dolls.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

Meller, quit yer cryin’. This shit is getting old.

KathleenB
KathleenB
8 years ago

Meller: Are you still talking? No one marks you.

Also: If you’re still a) laughing at cancer patients and/or b) trying to convince cat owners to euthanize their pets for acting like cats, you can cordially FUCK RIGHT OFF.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

Well Meller, by that logic if women hate you then that means you’re hateful, right?

And you are, too, I think I’ll spare Ithiliana the trouble of posting this (I hope you don’t mind, Ithiliana). Clear evidence of what a horrid person you are:

http://manboobz.com/2012/02/09/alcuin-and-out-or-the-kkk-with-tits/comment-page-8/#comment-123827
Ithiliana–February 12, 2012 @2:31pm

“graduate student “murdered” by ex-husband”

Take post cited above. Could woman who talks like that (over the ‘net) have such an unpleasant, unfeminine, and just plain horrid personality that she could say something that MAY provoke an unpleasant response from a nearby man who may already be troubled about something else. Look at all of the cases you read about where a murder or vicious assault or rape was committed by a man whose entire life was coming apart, and the very person—his wife–whom he was relying upon to keep what was left of his sanity was turning on him…

Did graduate student take her “how to handle men” or something like that from YOU?

I was explaining that a man who loved his nearest and dearest would do anything to avoid the spousal abuse so often cited on feminuttery websites and blogs like this, because it wouldn’t get him what he wanted! I would rather be kind, gentle, and loving to a woman than beat,rape, or kill her, and so would most men, for obvious reasons!

Gee, Ithiliana, for an intelligent woman, you sure have a lot of trouble understanding ordinary common sense, don’t you?

fembot
8 years ago

DKM, how are “women being hateful” on this site? Time after time MRAs call Manboobz a hate site, yet the only hate I ever see is coming from MRAs. Can you give me an example, please?

fembot
8 years ago

Be more feminine, alluring, dainty, affectionate, domestic, and compliant.

I am all of these things for my husband, when I feel like it. (I would replace compliant with willing to compromise, however). But the fact that you think NOT displaying these qualities equals hatred towards men is quite funny.

xaisede
xaisede
8 years ago

I hate people like her, the unplugging movement, and the rest of them. I don’t give a shit if it’s a joke or not. It is STILL an insult.