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I will be appearing on Al Jazeera English tomorrow afternoon. (And you can be a part of it too.)

I will be appearing on Al Jazeera English tomorrow talking about misogyny online. The show I’m going to appear on is called TheStream; it’s on at 3:30 PM ET.

You can watch a live stream of the show on the Al Jazeera website here.

If you want to be part of the discussion on the show, you can record a comment for the show’s producers here, or on the main page for TheStream. Some of the questions they’re asking:

Do women face more misogyny online than they do in person? Why? Does it reflect real sentiment or opportunistic, anonymous behavior? Have you experienced harassment as a woman online? What can be done about it?

I’m really looking forward to the show. It should be interesting.

If you have any suggestions about issues I should raise or points you think it’s important to make, let me know in the comments below.

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ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

(I’m allowed to use it, though.)

How embarressing would it be if you got yourself stuck in moderation on your own site? 😛

indifferentsky
8 years ago

omg!!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Aw, poor Tommy. He misses us.

xardoz
8 years ago

I’m sure he misses the w-word too. (ONLY HIS FAVORITE WORD EVER QQ)

Kat
Kat
8 years ago

I really hope they’ll also interview some women who have actually been targeted.

filetofswedishfish
filetofswedishfish
8 years ago

Yeeeaah, I’m super iffy on recording my face and my name and location. Just cause trolls, you know? Which sort or proves the point, I think. But I’d like to point out: does it really matter if they just be trollin’ for lulz, or if they *actually* think all women should be, I don’t know, dragged into the street and beaten? Either way they’re saying awful shit to be saying awful shit, and online at least, the result is the same: make women online feel uncomfortable, and possibly leave whatever space and be more unwilling to go there. I feel like Manboobz has had this debate before.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

I’d rather watch synchronized swimming.

LOL. I know this is meant as yet another coded “LADY SPORTS ARE LADY-ESQUE AND WIMPY!” but I always have to laugh at throw-away comments like these about codified “lady” sports that are supposedly “easy”, specifically synchro (synchronized swimming). A lot of my synchro teammates became lifeguards in high school and/or college and were always telling me what a piece of cake the certification was compared to any of our practices.

Which, yanno, makes sense, since a lot of our sporting included holding our breath for long periods of time and lifting each other up out of the water for fun.

Anyway, best of luck to you David! I’ll be watching! Unless synchronized swimming really IS on at that time. Then I might have to tape one or the other 😉

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

That would be… 20h30 for me, if I’m not mistaken. I look forward to watch this.

Obvious note: before any troll ask, yes, all Manboobzers will convert to Islam for the occasion, as our dear guru clearly wants us to. Yes, being is a cult can sometimes be complicated. (and obviously we will all be fanatic fundamentalists, which is as all trolls know the one true Islam)

Tom Martin
8 years ago

Women use much more misandry than men use misogyny – I confirmed this with a recent filmed street experiment, but found the results to be so boringly predictable, and have decided to cut straight to a documentary on whether women who have relinquished prostitution can be as funny as men (as it will be new knowledge).

The fact that researchers already know women use more hostile sexism than men makes it even more incongruous of the establishment to keep going on about misogyny alone.

Tom Martin
8 years ago

To clarify, I’d rather watch synchronized swimming, despite it being the only Olympic sport women are allowed to compete in but not men.

There will be male toadies at this misogyny debate, but they don’t count.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@Tom:

Why not release the boring results? Apparently only you think it’s predictable, so why not show everyone that you were right? You know… provide evidence? Otherwise you’d look like you were just posturing to make yourself look important. We wouldn’t want that, now would we?

(I see you still haven’t answered my question about what the “other side of the story” was… was that more posturing? I’m gonna assume yes.)

Bostonian
8 years ago

Tom never made a video, he got too drunk and posted comments instead.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@Bostonian:

Do you really think Tom would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies? D:

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

Women use much more misandry than men use misogyny – I confirmed this with a recent filmed street experiment, but found the results to be so boringly predictable, and have decided to cut straight to a documentary on whether women who have relinquished prostitution can be as funny as men (as it will be new knowledge).

So Tom isn’t going to produce his evidence that confirms his hypothesis. How unpredictable! *eyeroll*

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

I just noticed that The Spearhead has done away with its comment voting system, no doubt a pathetic attempt to hide the amount of support MRAs get for misogynistic rants and terrorist threat on that site.

Bostonian
8 years ago

Tom has never done anything of actual use in his life. I fully expect him to lie about everything he does. Well, and yell about sex workers in nonsensical ways.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

To clarify, I’d rather watch synchronized swimming, despite it being the only Olympic sport women are allowed to compete in but not men.

Not true: women can’t compete in the ski jump. And it was only this year that Olympic boxing was extended to women.

And of course historically women have been barred from far, far more Olympic sports.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Women use much more misandry than men use misogyny – I confirmed this with a recent filmed street experiment, but found the results to be so boringly predictable, and have decided to cut straight to a documentary on whether women who have relinquished prostitution can be as funny as men (as it will be new knowledge).

so in other words it was too hard and you gave up

im sure youll definitely finish the next one, tho

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@Wetherby:

Tom wasn’t talking about all exclusive sports, he was just talking about the ones where men are excluded. Those are the only ones that matter, ya’know?

Sharculese
8 years ago

also from what i understand there’s a push to add men’s syncro?

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

Yes, it’s long been seen as a “female” sport, but the number of male participants has been steadily increasing, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it added as an official Olympic sport before too long.

potsherds
potsherds
8 years ago

“Does it reflect real sentiment or opportunistic, anonymous behavior? ”

Just to comment on this, I think both descriptions often apply. Most misogynists are aware that misogyny is unacceptable in public life and can have negative consequences, so most of them temper their hatred sufficiently to fly under the radar. Online, where there’s much less likelihood of one’s behavior impacting one’s personal life or career, they feel free to be much more honest about just how much they hate women.

Obviously, some people are attacking women online just ‘for the fun of it’, but I think that’s a far less number of people than those that really, truly harbor negative attitudes about women.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Women use much more misandry than men use misogyny – I confirmed this with a recent filmed street experiment, but found the results to be so boringly predictable,

Shorter Tommy Boy: I got drunk the night before and couldn’t be arsed to get up and do what I said I would.

Tom, links or it didn’t happen.

pecunium
8 years ago

I;d love to listen but I’ll be at a federal courthouse supporting the judge who ruled indefinite detention unconstitutional.

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

also from what i understand there’s a push to add men’s syncro?

Yes, and according to journalist Cathal Kelly’s screed against women’s boxing now being included, London 2012: Some sports — like women’s boxing — don’t belong in the Olympics, men’s synchro is pretty much just a slippery slope away, except that nobody would want to watch it:

“If this is about inclusiveness, the International Olympic Committee will cave to the British male synchro swimming team that is lobbying for a spot in Rio. Since no one will watch guys in nose plugs doing pas de deux, the IOC is not going to cave. Some sports just don’t translate across the sexes, however long we hold our breath and wish for a perfect, genderless world.”

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

Speaking of Women’s sports, did any other Canadians here find themselves with some dust in their eyes after yesterday’s football? I think there was a duststorm going around 🙁

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

I don’t want to see men’s synchro.

I want to see MIXED-GENDER synchronized swimming. That sounds pretty awesome.

But then I’ve been leaning towards radical ideas like weight-classing the Olympics and doing away with gender segregation.

Also, I’m totally going to have to catch up on the youtube update tomorrow.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

Oh, and congrats man!!

grampmk
grampmk
8 years ago

“Most misogynists are aware that misogyny is unacceptable in public life and can have negative consequences, so most of them temper their hatred sufficiently to fly under the radar. Online, where there’s much less likelihood of one’s behavior impacting one’s personal life or career, they feel free to be much more honest about just how much they hate women.”

I agree, being anonymous can bring out the worse in many people.

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
8 years ago

I am sorry this is off topic, but if men are funny to get sex (something that is commonly claimed by men), then why would women who give up “prostitution” (in quotes since prostitution in this context seems to mean being alive) try to be funny? If someone can get paid for sex by a man of the choice, I don’t think it is illogical to conclude that they could get sex with the same person without that person paying. Therefore no funny is needed to obtain sex. Unless, sex is only good for men if they pay? Or the whole theory on why men are funny and women aren’t is complete bunk.

Sara
Sara
8 years ago

I do think misogyny is much worse online because of the anonymity of it, much like any other type of hostile comments (racism, homophopia, etc), people let loose some primitive rage when there’s no accountability. What I find interesting and it may be something you’re interested in noting, is the bizarre use of terms normally associated with equality and activism being hijacked by hate groups. Feminists are referred to as “Nazis” or “intolerant,” “bigots” by the very people who are bigoted and intolerant, and frankly whose views are so much aligned with those of Nazis. It’s as if they think by taking these terms and adopting them as their own, they can use it as ammo and it will fool the world into thinking they are some sort of human rights group – despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It is truly bizarre. Almost like that tricky language used to make some feminists look anti sex, just because they are anti-porn due to the rampant misogyny and degradation in porn, thus making Hugh Hefner and Larry Flint look like pioneers for sexual freedom, contrary to what they are actually doing; perpetuating tired, old, sexist and rather conservative views of women and human sexuality in general.

ithiliana
ithiliana
8 years ago

David: YAY! Thanks for the quick reply–I can now offer whole hearted congrats!

(I’d apologize for paranoia for the all dudely experts to talk about the “woman problem” is an endemic issue, has been for a couple of centuries, and I’ve gotten even more cynical).

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
8 years ago

Sara, I see the same thing in gay marriage debates. I have given it a lot of thought, but I still can’t see how someone is repressed by gay people marrying. However, the language used by anti-gay marriage people, and their arguments always go along these lines. I try to understand where this argument comes from, and I think it depends whether you define an important right as the right to take rights from others. If you do, then it is impossible for everyone to have rights. MRAs arguments make a lot of sense if you start from the premise that men are society and women some other.

We are lucky to have an unprecedented level of free speech. However, I wouldn’t put my name to public comments about how rape is wrong etc. Possibly, given I wouldn’t express my opinion in my name, I shouldn’t express it anonymously. I think anonymity has advantages and disadvantages online. However, without anonymity then I think in the online world, the person most happy to threaten and act on violence will win.

darksidecat
8 years ago

Misogynists are pretty common offline too. University presidents say that women are genetically incapable of doing math, the secretary of state gets asked about fashion…sexism is very common. Online harassment, like street harassment, has it’s own unique expression.

Worth adding is that oppressed groups get online harassment too. There’s a fair amount of homophobic, cissexist, classist, racist, etc. harassment as well. And women who are marginalized in other ways often get especially violent and persistent sexist harassment too (black women bloggers often have horror stories far above the average amount of sexist online harassment, for example).

There was a debate in feminist literature around the internet when it was new, some people theorized that the ‘faceless’ nature would force people to stop treating people differently. But that didn’t happen, what happened is that privileged groups are the default and oppressed group are treated as intruders by them. And privileged groups in privileged group dominated or exclusive spaces are extremely nasty in general. The way, for example, that rich people talk when they don’t know there’s a poor person in the room is very different from they way they publicly talk about class, ditto for white people and race, heteros and queerness, etc.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

Sara
Sara
8 years ago

@Pear Tree,

Exactly! I was faced with this the other day. A friend on facebook made a comment criticizing that Chick Fil A ordeal, and one of her “friends” called gay rights activists, bullies and yes, Nazis! That they “go after” anyone who disagrees with them, and they’re “agenda” is yes, “intolerant.” I commented that it’s strange to call a civil rights group “nazis”, especially since it was the nazis that sent homosexuals to concentration camps.

Sara
Sara
8 years ago

*their agenda.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

A friend on facebook made a comment criticizing that Chick Fil A ordeal, and one of her “friends” called gay rights activists, bullies and yes, Nazis! That they “go after” anyone who disagrees with them, and they’re “agenda” is yes, “intolerant.”

It’s so annoying when people who don’t understand words try to appropriate social justice jargon.

I don’t even.

P.S. I demand a copy of the GAY AGENDA.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Also, David, feel free to throw out a line about some lady folks not participating because of safety concerns.

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
8 years ago

whataboutthemoonz, I think the gay agenda is to have gay people treated as human beings, although I’m no expert.

kladle
kladle
8 years ago

I think what’s happened with social justice language is that various people have realized that you can use it as a shield against criticism and tool to shut down debates. Obviously in the case of genuine activism (let’s say gay activism here as an example) most of the people who will have criticisms of the movement or who will be against the movement will be out and out homophobes. It’s correct to label them intolerant, a bigot, etc., correct to refocus discussions on gay concerns, correct to push homophobes out of gay spaces, and so forth. However various individuals and political groups glommed on to the fact that if you use SJ language and present yourself as the oppressed group it means you can take control of the conversation. You can label anyone who disagrees with you “intolerant”, you have free reign to push dissenters out of your movement, you can demand extra representation without looking like a whiner, etc. and people who do not think critically will just think “poor x, getting beat up unfairly by everyone” rather than saying “HEY YOU ARE NOT OPPRESSED”. It’s an easy way for people to trigger fairness concerns whether or not they are legitimate to bring up.

The worst part about this is that the privileged people/groups who claim oppression are frequently able to get more time and sympathy than genuinely oppressed groups because they hold power, they appear more likable and relatable to other privileged people, and it’s safe to ally with them. This is why when for example a black expert in race-related studies goes on TV to talk about racism all the whiteys will come out of the woodwork to complain that the expert is whining, that nobody cares, that racism doesn’t even exist anymore, and on and on, but when Mr. Conservaman from the Totally Not White Supremacist Institute comes on to talk about reverse racism and the terrors of affirmative action a good percentage of white people would never even consider labeling him a big whiney whiner that needs to shut up and just deal. The horrible irony is that claiming oppression seems more legitimate to a lot of people when the claimer is not actually oppressed; privileged people who lose the tiniest ounce of privilege somehow deserve more attention than people who have had a boot on their head for the last 300+ years. Oppression claims let the privileged people focus on how “unfair” it is that they are losing ground while concealing the greater playing field and how everyone else is at a disadvantage (’cause why aren’t you focusing on meeeee)

Ami discussed a good analogy about sports somewhere and how w/r/t sexism feminists are asking for a few people to be added to the women’s team (because they are short a few players) and then men complain that it’s “unfair” that they get extra players added OMG OMG OMG. Here is her post on her blog about it.

ithiliana
ithiliana
8 years ago

@Whatabouthemoonz:

YOu asked!

YOu shall receive!

http://gayagenda.com/

Sara
Sara
8 years ago

I became aware of the MRM when they went after my husband who is the president of a rape crisis center, over a year ago. There was an ad that was featured on the center’s website that was bringing attention to the idea that violence against women is a learned behavior (ya know, that it’s not something men are born to do) and how we can raise our boys to become men who respect women, etc. Well, some MRA saw it and it went viral to all those crazy MRA sites. My husband’s blog blew up with all kinds of attacks, threats, etc. David Futrelle even wrote about the whole crazy thing on Manboobz. What struck me the most was how the MRAs spewed venom on ME, the wife! No one even knew who I was – just that he had a wife. One sicko wrote that he hopes I “die of cunt cancer, because she is a cunt.” I was not involved in any of this, and suddenly I was scared and felt targeted. The MRAs did their usual “let’s build a smear campaign!” and started raising money for the cause of “exposing” my hubby, blah blah. I started feeling paranoid – like maybe we were being stalked by some MRA funded gumshoe. This is how I came to realize that misogyny is a much bigger problem than I thought. It was definitely apparent when the object of their rage got transferred to me, the wife, the woman, when it really should’ve had nothing to do with me. And this all happened online, all of it. The internet is a cesspool of misogyny. This is not to diminish what hubby went through – it was a lot worse for him. But he even marveled “wow. There are a lot people out there that just hate women.”

Sharculese
8 years ago

@sara

wow. that’s intense. thanks for sharing your experience.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

My family complains about “those people” and how they’re always “whining” about stuff, but they honestly have no idea why calling a group of black men (an Olympic basketball team) “thugs” is not an okay thing to do. But reverse racism!!!11!!1!

My family = facehoof.

/)_- /)_- /)_- /)_- /)_- /)_- /)_- /)_- /)_-

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

@Sara – I’m sorry you had to go through all of that. It sounds positively horrifying 🙁

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

There was a debate in feminist literature around the internet when it was new, some people theorized that the ‘faceless’ nature would force people to stop treating people differently. But that didn’t happen, what happened is that privileged groups are the default and oppressed group are treated as intruders by them.

Also known as “there are no women on the Internet”. The original Hacker Manifesto was very naive about what it meant to just consider each other human, without regard to race or gender or whathaveyou. What really happens is that ‘human’ subconsciously becomes ‘white hetero cis abled neurotypical etc etc male’ because that’s what people regard as being human in our society. People will play City of Heroes for months with my ex but if she claims she’s a woman, suddenly she’s treated as ‘woman’ rather than ‘human’ (which means ‘man’, remember?). And of course the only reason you would break the spell and id as ‘woman’ is that you want attention, you’re a whore who wants human (men) players to give you stuff, etc etc. There’s no winning position for the oppressed in this catch 22.

At least when you’re IRL, you may only see a few women in whatever field you’re in, but most people don’t automatically erase them as easily from the space and assume they don’t exist.

Sara
Sara
8 years ago

@Sharculese and whataboutthemoonz

Thanks guys, it was stressful. Mostly just shocking. I was dumbfounded by the rage. I was very naive – even tried “reasoning” with some comments online. Crazy. It blew over though, and rather quickly! – one thing you can count on is the inactivism of their activism.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Internet/gender/gaming sucks. I play MMOs, and I have stories out the wazoo.