So, yeah, I’ve been reading some more Roosh.
Just a little FYI. It’s probably not a good idea to take dating advice from a dude who writes shit like this:
Your fuck funnel is the series of steps you take from the approach all the way to sex. Most girls will drop out as they go through your funnel by losing interest, declaring they have a boyfriend, flaking out, throwing up, or a multitude of other reasons that prevent sex. This means that for ever one girl you fuck, you have to approach a lot of girls. This is the basic law of averages, where no man fucks every girl he interacts with (even serial rapists have a failure rate).
Or this:
The best sex I’ve had was from mediocre girls who let me treat their bodies like garbage receptacles.
Or this:
I could probably have raw dog sex with 95% of all white girls, regardless of socioeconomic background. I only have met one girl that was super serious about using condoms, but I eventually fucked her without a condom too, so actually I change that to 100%. I could bang every white girl who lives in the United States without a condom if I desired, within three dates. I’m not kidding. I could do most of them raw dog on the same night. Here’s how to do it. ….
At this point our intrepid dating guru explains his clever Assange-esque (allegedly) method for convincing women to have sex with him sans condom, which involves repeatedly sticking his condomless penis into his dates until they stop resisting.
Note: He followed this post with another one about how terrified he was that he might have contracted HIV.
Oh, Roosh, is it entirely by coincidence that your name rhymes with “douche?”
Oh, stop trying to defend it, Eurosabra. You’re a dude who likes to use “mild gaslighting.”
Fuck off.
You know…if PUA was such a great thing, if it were such a cure for…whatever the fuck kind of issue Eurosabra has, one would think that it wouldn’t require so much defense. I mean, yeah, it takes time for a lot of ideas to flourish, like Feminism and Civil Rights for instance, except those are based on actual problems. PUA is based on utter distortion.
Then again, given the state of human society today, along with history, being based on distortion hasn’t gotten in the way of some things. *sigh*
No soap. He wanted to be messianic in tone.
As I’ve said many times before: PUA is what happens when a group of guys who have no idea what a relationship is try to recreate one through mimicry in the hopes of getting laid.
Game is not a set training wheels, it’s removing your tires and replacing them with square blocks. Sure, it’s easier to keep yourself upright, and some PUAs are able to move themselves. But they’ve made the thing thousands of times harder than it needs to be because they can’t be arsed to figure out how to be friendly with people.
Game is delusional, very rapey, and ultimately is a crutch preventing guys from learning how to actually connect with another human being.
Women talk to each other (and to male friends too). Social circles can be surprisingly small. And you don’t always need to know someone to hear about these things.
I recall a few years back there was this guy hitting on me at this bar. Back then I’d heard of PUA offhand, didn’t know too much of the idea. But looking back, I can imagine this guy had done some reading. He wasn’t my type at all, but when I’m tipsy and having a good time I’m more than happy to chat with anyone who wants to chat as long as they’re not coming on to my skin or too direct verbally (a little flirt is fine). And this guy wasn’t, he was quite pleasant. He went to the toilets and a girl I’d not seen before came to me and told me I was being chat up by a serial abuser. She’d been his victim, according to her words half a year ago. I don’t know the truth of what happened nor do I need to (apparently the abuse did not fill criminal definition, or the girl didn’t feel it did). I wasn’t going to leave with him (and never indicated interest beyond chatting), but I appreciate the gesture. If I had been interested and wanted to I could have set up a date for a later time to take a better look at the guy, see if he was an abuser for real or not, as far as such vetting can be done anyway. But it feels good to think random strangers look out for each other with all these assumed PUAs roaming out there looking for ladies to trick, and worse. It doesn’t have to be more than a few words of warning to hinder the lies.
See, *some* PUA is probably just learning how to flirt with ladies at bars. Why you would devote lots of time to that I have no idea, but then most of the people I know who get laid a lot have rough rules of thumb about flirting with people of the sort they tend to like*, so I’m inclined to consider that morally neutral. The problem is that PUA gurus don’t care about morality, they just care about getting laid. And, in the short term, predatory, abusive, and rapey tactics will get you more sex and girlfriends than ethical tactics. The predatory, abusive, and rapey tactics are what we object to.
Well, that, and the assumption that what turns on ladies at bars is what turns on everyone.
*For instance, one of mine is “always listen and pay attention when they discuss the D&D game”
So, it’s a scam, is what you’re saying.
I’m always creeped out by how… morally neutral Eurosabra is about these guys. He’s all “yeah, they call women garbage and give rape advice, that’s just their thing” in the tone you’d use if your favorite blogger made a lot of typos.
I’d almost rather he defended it than seem utterly unmoved by the fact that these guys are giving advice on how to dehumanize and assault another human being.
Does Eurosabra have some sort of application set up to detect mentions of PUA on this blog and alert him, or does he just read all the comments looking for opportunities to expound on his PUA theories?
In either case, I see that he’s back to claiming that rapey PUA is women’s fault and a result of women as a group not preferring short, ugly, socially inept men. If 22 year old lingerie models won’t date you then obviously the only rational response is to first try to gaslight them, then rape them if that doesn’t work. There are no other options available, other than being a “eunuch”.
I’m a bit burned out on the moral outrage, because I have no standing/leverage on anyone predatory and I got tired of banging my head against a wall trying to get someone to care. No one has anything on Roosh except the Latvian police, who found that Dariush Valizadeh had overstayed his visa, and that no crime had been committed.
I didn’t think Jlaix would be pro-rape in the Real Social Dynamics forum, but I knew he was an extreme case and plenty of people at Clarisse Thorn’s blog noticed and condemned him. But yeah, I don’t see alternatives to incel or being pushy, unless you like 30 rejections of varying levels of rudeness each night in the club. I suspect this is a failure of imagination on my part, but the sea is the same sea, even if the women are different each night.
>>>I don’t see alternatives to incel or being pushy
Therapy mb?
I didn’t think Jlaix would be pro-rape in the Real Social Dynamics forum, but I knew he was an extreme case and plenty of people at Clarisse Thorn’s blog noticed and condemned him. But yeah, I don’t see alternatives to incel or being pushy, unless you like 30 rejections of varying levels of rudeness each night in the club.
Right…. so if you are honest you expect to get lots of rejections, i.e. 30 women in a night will tell you, when you approach, tha they don’t want you.
You then argue that PUA tactics get around that. So either it’s a cobbled-together solution to a local subcultural/sociolect issue, treated as prescriptive for all humanity for all time because that’s what sells. For men whose initial issue was their lack of masculine self-presentation/lack of confidence, it can be useful training wheels.
Is bullshit (because you should be past it), and it’s not able to do what you say, or… it’s manipulative crap which pressures women into sex they didn’t really want.
And… you think “mild gaslighting” is ok, and you say you’ve given up on the manipulation.
As I said, if I wanted to have a sense of failure, I’d look to PUA as a method to get laid. Since I don’t, when I’m looking for sex, qua sex, I go to places there are women, and treat them as people. It may not happen that night, but it will happen.
And I don’t get the sense that I am loathed and hated, because I’m not pushing where I’m not actually wanted.
Aww. Poor Euro! What a tragedy that its so much easier for you to be an asshole than to change the very serious character defects that will always get you pegged for being an asshole!
And in other news…women don’t get laid as often as they’d like either. Or they don’t get laid by men like Captain Jack. Somehow, that’s never been an excuse for treating men like shit.
Just out of morbid curiosity: Does PUA imply ONLYplaying in club/bar scenes? (That’s all EuroTroll seems to talk about).
Because……that seems an awful limited way to make connections with people (although I suppose if your only goal is sex then and there, going to a crowded place where most people don’t know each other and there is alcohol and other system altering substances being circulated makes sense).
Depressing sense, given the correlation between alcohol consumption and rape, but sense.
…Get to know people before asking to have sex with them? Hang out somewhere other than a club?
“You’re big problem is that your argument is shit. Saying that lots of people share Roosh’s viewpoint doesn’t make it right. Lots of people think that immigrants are shiftless, and stealing jobs from “real americans”. It’s not true, and lots of people being wrong together is just that, being wrong together.
Sixty million Frenchmen can be wrong. ”
I don’t know where you came up with that straw man. Your counterargument does not address my post. I could equally apply it to the entire Manboobz site.
“He says he pressures women to do things they told him they didn’t want to do. That’s the problem. It’s not that he has one night stands, it’s that he takes advantage of them. It’s that he says taking advantage of people is moral.”
I’d really like you to find exactly where he says that he takes advantage of people.
The big point that Roosh regularly makes is that if any man has ever had illusions about the supposed purity of women, he can regularly cast them aside, as they’re generally dirtier and sluttier than even cynical men would suspect. I know this, since I’m regularly buggering married women. Why would I ever get married if I knew it was that easy to have sex with a married woman?
If you can equally agree that there’s a large population of women that have no hangups about one-night stands, then why would Roosh bother “raping” women who weren’t willing? Are you guys that desperate to find a villain to justify yourselves?
Cervante, by his own addmission sex really isn’t doing anything for him. Its the part where he manipulates abuses or rapes women that’s getting him off.
As you well know, sex with women is not difficult to achieve. That’s not what Roosh wants. He uses sex as a way to get close enough to a partner to really do physical or psychological damage.
Mostly it’s the questionable Cubicle Job, the hyper-vigilance, and the 22 year-old lingerie models that are the problem. Therapy isn’t really the solution to being one of capitalism’s losers. Also, I sometimes don’t reciprocate when I am faced with genuine interest in me as a person, because it seems so uninspiring compared to being wanted sexually, which is the drug I am seeking. (Rare because visible disability, low socio-economic status, ethnic looks.) Also, generally DO NOT like a situation I can’t control. However, there is a bit of club jiujitsu involved when a silent woman tells you to go away with just 1 finger, which I find hilarious. (Two fingers if British.)
Wait wut? You turn down women who are interested in you because they don’t look like they want to fuck you RIGHT THIS minute?
Everyone has their standards I suppose.
Gee, I don’t know why women would be hyper vigilant when there are gaslighting assholes like you around….
It’s really, really rare. So genuine friendliness throws me for a loop. It’s like a reset button for the PUA brain. Also, the adrenaline rush from my last rude rejection is generally lingering when it happens. It never takes the form of “turning a woman down”, most women aren’t that explicit in showing interest, rather, it’s that I stop and stare because I didn’t anticipate being questioned about a common interest by someone with genuine interest in the answer.
So you hate yourself and get off on rejection. And the idea of women sharing common interests with you is something you’re barely capable of comprehending.
These two things right here? These are the actual problem. These are things a therapist could help you with.
Eurosabra, since you cannot see my finger through this medium, and hale and hearty “fuck you” in your general direction will have to do. I’m sorry you hate yourself, but goddamn you are gross.
I think it’s possible to be genuinely physically unattractive to the mainstream, while equipped with bonus depression and to find having to sell yourself to 300, 400, 500 women for ONE positive response totally alienating from normal human experience, to the point where learning to play-act normal masculinity might change that positive response rate to 1 in 50. And yes, common interests are nice but aren’t something sexual unless they are BDSM (say.) But I’m willing to call it a problem of subcultures and sociolects rather than “Women are X.”
Oh, boo-hoo. Don’t forget the “mild gaslighting.”