So, yeah, I’ve been reading some more Roosh.
Just a little FYI. It’s probably not a good idea to take dating advice from a dude who writes shit like this:
Your fuck funnel is the series of steps you take from the approach all the way to sex. Most girls will drop out as they go through your funnel by losing interest, declaring they have a boyfriend, flaking out, throwing up, or a multitude of other reasons that prevent sex. This means that for ever one girl you fuck, you have to approach a lot of girls. This is the basic law of averages, where no man fucks every girl he interacts with (even serial rapists have a failure rate).
Or this:
The best sex I’ve had was from mediocre girls who let me treat their bodies like garbage receptacles.
Or this:
I could probably have raw dog sex with 95% of all white girls, regardless of socioeconomic background. I only have met one girl that was super serious about using condoms, but I eventually fucked her without a condom too, so actually I change that to 100%. I could bang every white girl who lives in the United States without a condom if I desired, within three dates. I’m not kidding. I could do most of them raw dog on the same night. Here’s how to do it. ….
At this point our intrepid dating guru explains his clever Assange-esque (allegedly) method for convincing women to have sex with him sans condom, which involves repeatedly sticking his condomless penis into his dates until they stop resisting.
Note: He followed this post with another one about how terrified he was that he might have contracted HIV.
Oh, Roosh, is it entirely by coincidence that your name rhymes with “douche?”
Also I missed the part where Chelsea Handler calls guys garbage dumps and encourages her followers to rape them.
Didn’t one of Handler’s books (it’s probably the one of her one-night stands, but maybe the Are You There, Vodka? one?) involve some really creepy fetishization of black and Asian men?
Not that I’m pointing that out to be all, “Look at this ladyperson doing bad things! SEXISM IS A LIE!” I was just trying to compose a post on why she is in fact not a good person, but realized I don’t have all the info I needed to heckle MRAs about failing at intersectionality even more severely than a lot of mainstream Feminism.
I guess my big problem with you guys criticizing Roosh is that many “nice guys” with hidden sexual agendas have the same thoughts and feelings regarding women, it’s just that Roosh is one of the very few who very openly discusses his viewpoints. You guys are targeting the wrong crowd.
I really doubt that any of the women he has sex have any hangups about one-night stands. Many of the women I have sex with have no hangups about one-night stands, and some of them have boyfriends and husbands.
Because) PUA is fun, and more directly addresses the issue of men who can project desire (beg, plead, whimper) but not masculinity (“How YOU doin’?”) and who have already identified this as their major failing, i.e. they have to “make the move”, because women won’t. The problematic bits depend on whom you listen to, and are easily avoidable as soon as you give up the conceit of knowing a woman’s mind/desire better than she does. Dr. Nerdlove, like Amanda Marcotte, prefers men use the Eunuchs Operating System(tm).C’mon out here and lure men away from PUA with a free system that “works better”, i.e. is more likely to connect them with compatible women over fewer attempted connections. Oh, right, you can’t.
lure men away from PUA with a free system that “works better”
You must mean the “talk to women like they’re human beings” system? Because that’s so difficult that you just shouldn’t bother, right?
(And I say that as someone who sucks at talking to people at the best of times, let alone when I have a crush).
Who says we have hangups about one night stands? Our problem is with people who abuse, manipulate and degrade others to get dates or sex.
It is not the women he has one night stands with we are concerned about. We are more concerned that he admitted to raping women. And we did not forget that Erosabra also regularly posts rape apology either.
One night stands are fine. Raping women is not.
If “works better” is defined as “gets you laid more reliably,” then systems that involve manipulation, pressure, coercion, and outright rape will “work better.”
However, if you’d like to have slightly less sex in exchange for being a decent human being and actually having a human connection with your partners, you may be interested in the “talk to women like they’re human beings” system.
No, one-night-stand hangups aren’t the problem. There’s plenty of men and women having fun that way without negative feelings. But these gurus aren’t offering any new groundbreaking advice. The little I’ve read seems to be rapey advice for men and instead telling women they should save themselves for the one guy, get married “before their sexual market value runs out” yada yada yada… the same old same old that’s been repeated for millennia by now. It’s not liberating anyone, but I guess the few decades of attempts at sexual freedom got some men (and women) to forget how things were before.
I think that’s ceding PUAs too much ground, just like liberals who argue against torture going “well you’re right it will get us truth out of terrorists faster, but it’s WRONG”. Well, I don’t even agree with their argument that it’s working in the first place.
They’re salting the ground as they go. The first girl they manipulate into bed, everything is fine. But girls talk. It’s not a sustainable strategy. They have some ways to try to counteract it (they target young women, which is a replenishable pool, and they tend to try and invade new social groups regularly) but eventually it’s all going to crumble down on their face.
Oh, right you got us–it’s totally the one nights stands that are the problem, not the rape. Jesus fucking Christ.
I’ve, uh, had one-night-stands. I don’t think one-night-stands are immoral. I think rape is immoral, and it certainly says something about you that you believe there’s no way to get a one-night-stand besides rape.
Also, I’ll hook you up with a free system that works!
1) Talk to people you’d like to date.
2) Ask them out.
Again, false choice, but thank you for the dogma. I don’t know why they want to be known as rapey badasses, but it apparently helps their street credibility. On the other hand, it is good to know what aspects of oneself are likely to be found attractive, how to present them, and (the original problem) how to come across as attractive when one has previously absorbed too many negative messages.
Eurosabra: Right. I’ve never gotten laid. The women here who say that what they want is different from what you are saying is, “the way”.
You are not all men.
You are also begging the question.
Cervantes: I guess my big problem with you guys criticizing Roosh is that many “nice guys” with hidden sexual agendas have the same thoughts and feelings regarding women, it’s just that Roosh is one of the very few who very openly discusses his viewpoints.
You’re big problem is that your argument is shit. Saying that lots of people share Roosh’s viewpoint doesn’t make it right. Lots of people think that immigrants are shiftless, and stealing jobs from “real americans”. It’s not true, and lots of people being wrong together is just that, being wrong together.
Sixty million Frenchmen can be wrong.
I really doubt that any of the women he has sex have any hangups about one-night stands. Many of the women I have sex with have no hangups about one-night stands, and some of them have boyfriends and husbands.
He says he pressures women to do things they told him they didn’t want to do. That’s the problem. It’s not that he has one night stands, it’s that he takes advantage of them. It’s that he says taking advantage of people is moral.
I thought the whole point of PUA was to trick women into putting out by lying to them and/or pretending to want a relationship. Once the woman puts out, the man vanishes, on to the next. Roosh seems obsessed with just collecting notch after notch, and not really caring about the experience, just going for the notch. I guess once he hits a magical number he will feel like a real Alpha male. 😉
Eurosabra: Again, false choice, but thank you for the dogma. I don’t know why they want to be known as rapey badasses, but it apparently helps their street credibility. On the other hand, it is good to know what aspects of oneself are likely to be found attractive, how to present them, and (the original problem) how to come across as attractive when one has previously absorbed too many negative messages.
Their Street Cred? Who do they need “Street Cred” with? I don’t give a shit what other men think of me. I don’t really care what other women think. I care what the women I am interested in think. So far, I’m doing pretty well.
I’m not batting 1.000, but I’m not striking out all the much either. If I were doing PUA, I’d be a lot less happy, because I’d be failing, more often that not. I’d have unreasonable expectations of being able to get someone in the sack a lot more often than I’d be able to.
Because no one, but no one, manages to get someone every time; when they are on the prowl.
So me, I’ll take being one of the men you sneer at.
@ozymandias42 Hey, now, it’s not a system unless it comes with a bunch of crappy books, overly long blog posts, and seminars. 😉
Eurosabra, being thought of as a rapey asshole is not sreet cred, it’s a colossal red flag.
Very likely true, most of the men happy with the lighter forms of PUA (Juggler/Mystery/Swingcat) were rich, tall, and good-looking to begin with, most of the scrappier ones (TylerDurden/Krauser/Ross Jeffries) were farther from the ideal and needed to put more energy into the interaction and be more persistent.
There’s a PUA called Tyler Durden? Could you be LESS original?
@Eurosabra
Um…high economic status or not, what they’re doing is still not only immoral, but harmful for oneself in the long run.
Again, it’s not sneering, it’s a cobbled-together solution to a local subcultural/sociolect issue, treated as prescriptive for all humanity for all time because that’s what sells. For men whose initial issue was their lack of masculine self-presentation/lack of confidence, it can be useful training wheels.
@MollyRen
Oh my god, I missed that.
Did this Tyler Durden run a soap company, Eurosabra? Super curious.