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Complementarian Loner: Contraception “puts the woman in the dominant position and she then determines when and under what conditions she will ACQUIRE his seed.”

Old School birth control

When I think about contraception, my thoughts generally run to things like this:

“Is this condom on inside-out? Oh, crap.”

“I guess IUD’s aren’t necessarily a good idea for some women unless they like bleeding from their vagina every day for six months.”

“Has anyone ever actually used a female condom?”

Over on Complementarian Loners, an MRA-adjacent “relationship” blog written by a couple of Catholic converts, the bitter divorced dude who calls himself 7man has some more, well, advanced ideas about contraception. By “advanced” I mean, of course,  “odd and terrible.”

He starts off with this proposition:

A man and a woman cannot develop a great relationship if contraception is part of it or if they met while she was using hormonal artificial birth control. REAL committed, trusting, exclusive sexual intercourse is essential.

Oh, it gets weirder from there:

Birth Control is a misnomer since this is her speaking through her body saying, “I control when I will give birth, not God, not a man.” It doesn’t require any respect for fertility since fertility is subverted. This puts the woman in the dominant position and she then determines when and under what conditions she will ACQUIRE his seed rather than being open to RECEIVE. (Is woman not a vessel?)

I’m pretty sure a woman is a person, dude.

Usually the contraception is done by the woman, it messes with her body; she blocks the ability to receive and the whole exercise becomes taking pleasure from the other. Of course, she can always lie about taking it or not taking it. This is in essence lying with the body. A man can lie too if he withholds his gift by vasectomy or by condom.

In his profile on the blog, 7man refers to his ex-wife as “BatShitCrazy” (apparently that’s just one word now), but I think she demonstrated some pretty clearheaded and rational thinking in getting herself away from a guy who can refer to his semen as a “gift” without giggling.

[I]t is women acting as succubi. And so the ultimate end of a failed attempt to block PROCREATION is abortion. After all, God surely did not do his part and create a soul for the life that she did not intend to receive, right? Does her hamster prevent God from fulfilling his part of creation? Not likely! …

I am left with the impression that subverting fertility may be just as much an abomination to God as is divorce.

I hope you mention that right up top in your Match.com profile, dude, because that’s the sort of shit women need to know right off the bat before they send you any misguided “winks.”

Oh, and apparently men and women can’t have good sex unless the man controls everything and the woman cannot leave:

Can men and women have what they so deeply desire (in a relationship) while withholding the central gift of self? Have Christians stopped to consider the word PROCREATION? We participate in the CREATION of God in our act of sexual intercourse. We assist in CREATION of a body, but God provides the soul. CREATION is intended to occur in conjunction with a COVENANT. Can intercourse be unitive if this element is totally removed from the act of marriage, in the one-flesh-union?

A COVENANT is an OATH, a BINDING and a COMMITMENT. This is more than a contract or a whim. The sublime pleasure of sexual intercourse cannot happen when such aspects are blocked. The kind of fulfilling sex that every person longs for and rarely experiences is also precluded when the woman endeavors to control the relationship. In order for her to feel the fullness of the union, she must be claimed in a COVENANT to one man PERMANENTLY.

I can only imagine Mr. 7man explaining all this very earnestly to his date as they munch on breadsticks at the local Olive Garden, after which the unfortunate woman excuses herself to go to the ladies room and, as soon as she is out of his eyesight, slips out the back door of the restaurant and literally runs the entire way home.

7man closes with this little puzzler:

[S]uccumbing to passionate desire is easier without the risk of pregnancy and therefore commitment is not essential prior to the parting of thighs. Does this ever turn out for the good?

Yes. Yes it does.

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Joanna
8 years ago

MRAs only seem content if their penis can ruin someone’s life.

carswell
carswell
8 years ago

Birth Control is a misnomer since this is her speaking through her body saying, “I control when I will give birth, not God, not a man.”

I see what you did there 7man.

god=man, man=god

Woman? Not so much.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
8 years ago

(Is woman not a vessel?)

This really seems to be the whole heart of his argument. Because if the answer is no, then absolutely nothing about his words makes the slightest iota of sense.

And the answer is NO, btw. In case you weren’t clear on that. (everybody here was clear on that–even the trolls, if they were honest)

the twisted spinster
the twisted spinster
8 years ago

I once had a date like that. In the middle of a conversation about an unrelated subject, he suddenly burst out with “abortion is against God’s plan!”

Anyway, that was the only date with that guy.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

They don’t seem to understand that at the end of all this glorious seed-reception and God-trusting and trust and CREATION–there will be an actual child who requires 18+ years of care.

I don’t use contraception because I’m interested in the fucking symbolism. I use it because I’m not able to properly care for and raise a child.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Does her hamster prevent God from fulfilling his part of creation? Not likely!

Sometimes I really wonder if MRA posts are just an elaborate game of Mad Libs. It makes more sense than someone writing this sort of thing deliberately.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Oh, and I tried a female condom once. :/

It’s sort of an interesting concept, but the current state of the technology leaves you paying twice as much for a really awkward, unpleasant plastic bag. I was not converted.

Jayem Griffin
8 years ago

Have Christians stopped to consider the word PROCREATION? We participate in the CREATION of God in our act of sexual intercourse.

So is contraception okay for us godless heathens? After all, you wouldn’t want MORE of us around, right?

7man
8 years ago

Thanks for the publicity. I stand by my words (and CL has not slipped out the back door). CL is a woman which of course means she is a person but a certain part of her is still a vessel.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

…and she then determines when and under what conditions she will ACQUIRE his seed rather than being open to RECEIVE.

Um… Yeah. Pretty much.

themisanthropicmuse
8 years ago

Extreme religious fundamentalism needs to fuck off and die already. It’s crippling effects on the human mind produce some of the scariest people on the planet.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

Oh, and I tried a female condom once. :/

It’s sort of an interesting concept, but the current state of the technology leaves you paying twice as much for a really awkward, unpleasant plastic bag. I was not converted.

Same here. Good idea though and it would be nice to see someone attempt some improvements.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

His post just begs to be read by Patrick Stewart. MRAs: florid and overblown to a man.

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

Yeah, I don’t get the niche for the female condom. It seems to me that it would in no way improve upon the male condom in terms of sensation for either partner. It would most likely be a lot more of an hassle to put on and more likely to slip or otherwise fail. And while I could see the point that having a cis woman in control of her own STI and birth prevention method if she’s in an heterosexual coupling with a cis man, that woman could still purchase male condoms herself to be in control and I doubt a man who would refuse to use it at her insistance would comply if she asked to wait while she slips in a female condom.

Is there some non “cis man with cis woman” couplings where the female condom would be a better fit for the situation that I’m not thinking of?

Pickle Jello
Pickle Jello
8 years ago

He’s a Catholic, right? Well, according to the Catechism, the rule book for Catholics, contraception isn’t a sin before marriage, as, according to it, premarital sex is wrong and isn’t any worse just because of birth control.
Now, you can argue that the whole idea of premarital sex being wrong is wrong, but he fails at his own religious world view.

carswell
carswell
8 years ago

^ Whatever else they may be I don’t think MRAs are overblown.

Just sayin’

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

It kind of makes me sad when someone is of the opinion that sex HAS to result in BABBY, it really isn’t fair to people who can’t afford to care for children, and it’s somewhat inconsiderate of those of us who don’t care to have children regardless.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

Does her hamster prevent God from fulfilling his part of creation?

Is he using “hamster” here in a sense that anybody else understands? Because I think he’s talking about “the hamster that runs in the wheel that powers your brain,” which is a pretty general idiom, but the term occupies a space in his narrative that would seem to indicate it stands for her cervix/vagina or something. Whatever she has that “refuses” a man’s “gift.”

Hesster
Hesster
8 years ago

Sounds like pretty standard Catholic anti-contraceptive ‘arguments’ actually. Seriously, this kind of thing is official doctorine from the church. The only contraceptive they endorse is the rhythm method, which is the least effective form of birth control. Apparently women can’t be trusted with control over their own bodies. She’s gotta have a man in charge!

So God created the Universe in six days and got a woman pregnant without any sex at all, but a condom or some hormone pills are an insurmountable barrier? Is God suddenly impotent?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

Is there some non “cis man with cis woman” couplings where the female condom would be a better fit for the situation that I’m not thinking of?

Situations in which a woman cannot ask her partner to use a condom do to the constraints of culture and/or a relationship that is abusive. I don’t know I’d I’d call it a “niche” market exactly.

When I tried it, I was helping a friend who works in the field for an international aid organization.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

I saw a female condom once. It was in a little plastic case dangling off a key chain. The case read something like “In Case of Emergency.” The year was, like, 1994.

JPlum
8 years ago

I`m just really confused by the hamster. My birth control came with a Pap smear and an instructional leaflet; was it also supposed to come with a pet hamster?

sthlivingincolor
8 years ago

Oy Catholics. All this lofty language about COMMUNION and COMMITMENT and what it really amounts to is women having kids they can’t afford (or have any energy for) until it kills them. What a beautiful celebration of love!

I saw a post about female condoms on Joe.My.God. the other day and lots of the gay men there liked them (apparently you have to remove the ring that fits against the cervix if you want to use them for anal whoopie) and liked that you can wash and reuse them, but weren’t so happy about the price. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen them for sale, but then again I haven’t looked too hard ’cause my partner doesn’t have any of the little swimmers.

And can I just say that what makes the best nookie for me is not having to worry about an unintended pregnancy?

Blue Jean
Blue Jean
8 years ago

Loner (before); “A woman should not use birth control, so I can give her the gift of my…I mean, God’s…seed.”

Loner (after); “Why should I pay child support for 18 years? She got herself pregnant!”

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

When I was taking Sex-Ed in middle school, I thought the female condoms that they showed us were kind of silly, and from the way they explained them it sounded like they were open at both ends and you had to kind of turn one end over to make a seal, and all I could help thinking was “why?”.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

So God created the Universe in six days and got a woman pregnant without any sex at all, but a condom or some hormone pills are an insurmountable barrier? Is God suddenly impotent?

I use kryptonite condoms.

chibigodzilla
8 years ago

Is he using “hamster” here in a sense that anybody else understands?

I read it as pet hamster; essentially a “Wild animals don’t subvert God’s will so how dare humans be so arrogant!” kind of argument.
Problem is, MRAs have to obfuscate their arguments with this kind of BS because they realize saying “Women shouldn’t use birt control because women shouldn’t have a say in whether or not they get pregnant” isn’t going to go over very well.

chibigodzilla
8 years ago

I use kryptonite condoms.

Just make sure it’s not red kryptonite.

cloudiah
8 years ago

You mean you guys haven’t heard of the Hamster Gospels? They’re hidden away in a vault in the Vatican.

Saccharissa
Saccharissa
8 years ago

Does her hamster prevent God from fulfilling his part of creation?

I’d just like to point out that if a hamster gets pregnant and doesn’t want to be a mother, she will eat or abandon her babies once they are born. Would 7man be okay with my doing that?

Infanticide! The all-natural hormone free alternative to birth control!(tm)

Somehow, I doubt it.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

Infanticide! The all-natural hormone free alternative to birth control!(tm)

Somehow, some part of me thinks that the MRAs would be fine with having this as the only birth control option, if it means they get another stick to beat women and feminists with.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

aworldanonymous: Only if the baby in question is male!

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Also, I always get a kick out of the Super Special Sperm argument, because every time it gets wheeled out there has to be more than a few people out there who immediately mount a counter-wank in protest.

pecunium
8 years ago

A man and a woman cannot develop a great relationship if contraception is part of it or if they met while she was using hormonal artificial birth control. REAL committed, trusting, exclusive sexual intercourse is essential.

This is crypto-speak for, “she doesn’t dare to have an affair, because she might get pregnant and give the game away.”

[I]t is women acting as succubi. And so the ultimate end of a failed attempt to block PROCREATION is abortion. After all, God surely did not do his part and create a soul for the life that she did not intend to receive, right?

So… the 30-40 percent of fertilisations that don’t implant/miscarry… God gave them souls so they could be killed off before birth, and end up in Limbo for all eternity (I say this because this asshat’s flavor of stupid based on aspects of Roman Catholic Theology; which is confused on the issue of contraception).

Per his Argument, the Pill is Ok, and condoms, so are spermicides, and diaphragms, but not IUDs: at least in terms of the putative soul of the blastocyst.

I think (in the realms of TMI)… I don’t want to know this fulfilling sex he says I’ve not had. Because if it’s that much better than the really good sex I have had… the Real Deal is likely to kill me.

(Is woman not a vessel?)

Nope, women are not “vessels”. That’s your entire problem dude. You keep seeing women as less than men. That, BTW, is something you should take up with your confessor (I recommend either a Jesuit, or a Franciscan, the latter will be more severe, but either will set you straight on role of women, and of marriage, and of how sex works. The Jesuit it more likely to be clear on the actual church doctrines on contraception. Knowing that would make your life so much easier).

pecunium
8 years ago

stlivingcolor: Oy Catholics. All this lofty language about COMMUNION and COMMITMENT and what it really amounts to is women having kids they can’t afford (or have any energy for) until it kills them. What a beautiful celebration of love!

Not Catholics, per se. Some Catholics, as some Baptists, and some Lutherans, and some Muslims, and some Jews, and some Anglicans, and some….

It’s extremism, and stupid, but neither is it exclusive, nor monolithic in those faiths.

I’ve seen Libertarians arguing for this shit too.

It’s a type of, sadly not uncommon, human stupidity.

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

(Is woman not a vessel?)

Remind me not to send you out to get a vessel.

(Goddammit! This is no help at all! [/mad scientist])

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

DAD:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I’ve never been one of them.

I’m a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They’ll take you as soon as you’re warm.

You don’t have to be a six-footer.
You don’t have to have a great brain.
You don’t have to have any clothes on. You’re
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

FOALS:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

FILLY:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can’t be found.

FOALS:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

STALLIONS:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
MARES:
If a sperm is wasted,…
FOALS:
…God get quite irate.

PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.
BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.
NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed…
CARDINALS:
…In your neighbourhood!

FOALS:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everypony’s.
MOURNER #1:
Mine!
MOURNER #2:
And mine!
CORPSE:
And mine!

NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O’er mountain, hill, and plain.
HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that’s spilt in vain.

EVERYPONY:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Guys, I’m so glad I can take a little pill every day instead of threatening storks with umbrellas. I have enough stuff to carry around.

burgundy
burgundy
8 years ago

Re: female condoms – there was a letter to Savage Love a year or so ago, from a guy who was going to have an MFF threesome, and he was asking Dan if it was really necessary to put on a new condom every time he went from one woman to the other. Dan was pretty stern with him about that, but I thought, why not try female condoms? Each woman can have one, and then he can pop back and forth to his heart’s content. (Not that I’m all that interested in helping to improve the sex life of a guy who feels that keeping his partners safe is some kind of burden.)

So there you go, purpose for a female condom! I also recall someone telling me that they can be useful if a guy has a hard time maintaining an erection while wearing a standard condom. And I can see the appeal if a woman wants to retain control over the condom use for whatever reason.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

Everybody sing along!

Rei
Rei
8 years ago

Birth Control is a misnomer since this is her speaking through her body saying, “I control when I will give birth, not God, not a man.”

I, uh…

Whatever you think of who ought to be doing the controlling, dude, if the thing that is being done controls the event of birth, “birth control” is a totally appropriate name.

…why that was the main thing that bugged me about this little screed, I have no idea.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

The sublime pleasure of sexual intercourse cannot happen when such aspects are blocked.

Oh, I promise you it can. 😉

Clark Cox
8 years ago

she then determines when and under what conditions she will ACQUIRE his seed

They say that like it’s a bad thing. I think everyone should be in control of the conditions and timing under which they acquire semen. 🙂

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

And so the ultimate end of a failed attempt to block PROCREATION is abortion. After all, God surely did not do his part and create a soul for the life that she did not intend to receive, right?

This is a weird bit. I think they’re saying that abortion is wrong because fetuses have souls, but read another way, it’s saying that God can see the future, so he doesn’t put souls in the fetuses that are fated to be aborted.

Hey! Awesome! That fixes up the moral dilemma right quick!

Amanda Marcotte (@AmandaMarcotte)

Contraception geek to the rescue!

If it’s been a number of years since you’ve used a female condom, they’ve made some changes that supposedly have improved it. If you thought it was okay and close but needed to be better, it might be time to revisit it.

I agree that they’re less great than male condoms for most condom use situations, but they are good for certain situations:

*They’re made of nitrile and not latex, so they’re great for people with latex allergies. They’re far more effective than sheepskin.

*I *think* they may offer a little more protection for STDs that can be passed on the outside, like herpes, since they cover more area. If you’re in a herpes discordant relationship, it might give you a little more peace of mind.

*Most importantly, they’re considered superior for anal sex. Male condoms can’t take as much of a beating, but if you stick one in your butt and go from there, it’s apparently safer and works better.

Greg Mastin (@gregmastin)

Too funny, as I was scrolling through the comments it occurred to me that Monty Python already had the perfect response….and I got to the bottom and there it was. #salute

Amphitrite
Amphitrite
8 years ago

Ew. Vessel? The vessel in the pestle? The brew that is true? I’d rather be the flagon with the dragon.

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CetQrxFp4XI&w=560&h=315%5D

Amphitrite
Amphitrite
8 years ago

Nuts, embedding fail. Danny Kaye FTW.

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
8 years ago

@burgundy: I think Savage answered a similar question in the same way! I remember reading it because I was like, “WTF is a female condom?”

carabrownstein
8 years ago

Seriously, no one should be allowed to pontificate on Christian Values unless they have read the Bible cover to cover in its original languages, and studied the context in which it was written. From a literary point of view it is one of the most ambiguous and problematic texts in the world. Why anyone would use it as a basis for a system of philosophy is beyond me. There is a brilliant lecture by an academic called Dale B Martin at Yale, where he talks about the editorial process for the Bible – basically it was cobbled together from a canon of writing, and in the early church there were several different versions. It’s also riddled with continuity problems.
Having said that, the Book of Revelation is always and entertaining read. And Christ’s views on non-violence are highly admirable (though they may have been borrowed from earlier Hindu / Buddhist traditions which look suspiciously similar).

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