Recently, a nameless commenter here asked “What exactly is “rapey” about Pick Up Artistry?” The post below should help to answer that question.
Hey, fellas! Say you’ve applied some state of the art Pickup Artistry on some HB 10 (“hot babe 10”) and you’re about to add another notch to your “girls I’ve totally had sex with” belt – and she has the gall to tell you “no.” Should you be worried?
Pickup artist Roosh Valizedah (whom we were talking about just yesterday) says, er, no. Apparently “no” (when the word is uttered by a girl you are groping) is actually a variant of “yes.” Who knew?
While every feminist likes to repeat the phrase “No means no,” it depends on context. Here’s a guide:
“No” when you try to take off her jeans or shirt means… “You need to turn me on a lot more.”
“No” when you try to take off her bra means… “Try again in five minutes.”
“No” when you try to take off her panties means… “Don’t give up now!”
I find the only word that means no is “stop.” If you hear that word then she’ll be asking you to leave soon after.
So just filter out everything she says other than the word “stop” and you’ll be fine. Oh, and if she actually starts punching you, that’s also a clue that she doesn’t want to have sex with you.
For every rape accusation I’d want to know at what stage of undress the girl was at before the supposed rape happened. If she was completely naked until saying no, and got there voluntarily, then I’d be reluctant to charge the man with rape unless there were signs of violence.
Gals need to remember, Roosh explains, that once a man gets a boner he’s pretty much helpless. His innate biological drives require that he either have sex with you (if you’re willing) or rape you (if you are unwilling and remember to say “stop” as well as “no”).
Women need to understand that men aren’t robots who can suddenly stop at the drop of a dime with all that testosterone pumping through their system. Therefore it would be prudent for them not to enter situations where the average man can’t stop due to his innate weaknesses as an animal whose entire existence depends on him successfully mating.
If it gets to that point, Roosh advises the ladies, you should just try to enjoy the rape as best you can – like it’s some sort of carnival ride.
Every roller coaster has a point while chugging up that first hill where’s there’s no turning back and you just need to hang on for the ride. In other words, don’t let a man on your bed unless you’re trying to get it.
So, In Roosh’s world, woman who merely say “no” shouldn’t complain about being raped, and men are basically slavering beasts controlled by their penises. What a lovely view of the world!
[TW TW TW TW!!!]
When I was sexually assaulted, I was buck-ass naked, because I’d agreed to have sex with the guy. What I hadn’t agreed to is that he would start hurting me and refuse to stop. (Does this sound “gray area”? I was SCREAMING. Are screams of pain and rage part of your image of “grey area”?)*
Saying “sorry, ladies, you agreed to sex” is… well, it’s bullshit ANYWAY, but it’s extra bullshit because “sex” isn’t a single predictable experience. If all I could do was agree to “absolutely anything you want to do to my body, for as long as you want to do it,” I’d never consent to any kind of sex again.
I’m okay with using “stop” as a safeword, but you need to TELL me if that’s the only word that will stop you, because sometimes my psychic powers have an off day.
*not that rape isn’t real if someone doesn’t scream. But I want to put that image in the mind of every rape apologist who thinks partner rape always looks and feels just like regular sex, so how’s a guy to know?
Consent can be withdrawn at any point of the sexual encounter, and anyone who refuses to stop is a rapist. Consent to sex does not equal consent to any and every action thereafter. For example, if you agree to let me tie you up, that doesn’t mean I have the right to do whatever the hell I want to you once you are tied up. You still get to say “No, I would not like you to fist me,” and if I ignore your request, I am a rapist. Why is this so difficult for certain people to understand?
This is why I never got into PUA, my whole pathetic dateless high school life I looked for whatever advice I could to try to make myself seem more attractive, but PUA always had a rather nasty vibe to it that I just couldn’t quite place at the time. Now that I know better, I know that I was always turned off of it because it was rapey. I’ve always been disgusted by these kinds of guys, to the point that I’m ashamed to have a penis because of them.
My experience says when women are into the moment they undress themselves – is this arse undressing non-consenting, possibly intoxicated women? Plus he’s using the “we can’t help ourselves” argument which is bollox.
I hope none of these point-of-no-returners are libertarians, because that flushes the whole “personal responsibility” angle right down the toilet. Are they such a slave to their base, animal instincts that they have no agency?
“No” and “Stop” are just plain freakin ENGLISH. I find it hard to believe that it would be necessary to even bother establishing them as “safe words” as everyone who speaks english and isn’t retarded should know what they mean.But if the person you’re shagging doesn’t share a common language with you, then you probably should reconsider shagging them in the first place.
Roosh and his PUA cronies need a good application of Ye Ole Clue-by-Four to the cranial area.
That naked lady in your bed? Maybe she was fine giving you a hand job or blow job and wanted reciprocation, but didn’t want penetration. Or maybe she likes naked make out sessions. In what universe does ‘naked = agree to sex’ necessarily?
Um, Nommie. I think the post says pretty plainly that the people who don’t listen to plain English words are PUAs.
And it’s hard to pick up that a person who speaks English very well has decided that particular words have no meaning.
Just how are people supposed to know that in advance?
Thanks awfully for putting the onus on the victim to prevent rape. That’s totally original.
O hai ableism!
Offhand I’d say yes.
I think the idea that “they just don’t know what rape is” is a VERY charitable interpretation.
One of the assumptions underlying this attitude is that women are teases who enjoy getting men excited and then telling then “no.” Because there couldn’t possibly be any rational reason to refuse any conceivable sex act once the clothes are off.
As a man, I find the belief that men just can’t control themselves to be beyond insulting. Further proof that PUAs and MRAs are the biggest misandrists there are.
Sometimes women are into the moment and undress themselves, then get out of the moment for whatever reason (it starts hurting, panic attack, partner starts doing unexpected things, just plain change of mind), and there’s still not excuse for ignoring that.
Nah, it varies who does the undressing, sometimes people do things differently.
The second clause, however, is as far as I’m aware totally accurate.
Noms, after reading a bunch of quotes from a PUA specifically stating that he ignores the word “no”, and advises others to do the same, you really have to wonder what reason anyone could have to establish “no” as a safeword? Are you seriously that dense, or is it an act?
And nice ableism by the way. You complete ass.
Hugs for Cliff, if you want them.
It’s the second time he’s done it today; in a previous thread he called us all “hiptards.” (And yeah, Nommie, it still counts when you use it like that)
CREEPY.
Thanks. I always appreciate, but don’t need. If I write about stuff in public on Manboobz, I’m pretty much at peace with it–I wouldn’t talk about it if I still had big triggers.
Mostly I wanted to illustrate a scenario in which someone said “yes,” changed it to “no,” and there was very blatantly nothing grey or ambiguous or “just regrets” about it.
Wait, he’ll accept ‘stop’?…clearly she MEANT to say “dont stop”, which means go ahead, maybe even a bit harder.
You should only accept ‘stop’ if its accompanied by her using a rape whistle…hmm, although she may just have a gym coach fetish, so maybe ‘stop’+airhorn? Unless she likes to pretend shes a harbor, and totally wants you to dock with her.
Ok, ‘stop’+whistle+airhorn+violence/attempted fleeing+her yelling about how many STDs she has, I think thats about where you need to draw the line and CONSIDER that maybe she isn’t playing hard to get…oh, and of course weigh that against the fact that you bought her a long island iced tea, so she owes you.
I wonder why they think theres such a problem with ‘false’ rape accusations…
Nomless: RooshV speaks English. He writes in it, giving advice to other men who speak it.
He is telling them to IGNORE the word no, because it doesn’t actually mean no, not when a woman he want’s to have sex with says it.
Stop, might mean no, but it’s not important, since unless she hits you it wasn’t really rape, and if she was half dressed it might have been rape, but it ought not be criminal rape.
So there’s your answer to why we think PUA is rapey. It’s because the people who preach it say that rape is ok, you denialist idiot.
Cliff: I know this isn’t the first time you’ve shared that Sympathy; because, for all that I don’t write about things I’m not comfortable sharing, I do sympathise.
Uh, dude? You’re the one claiming that once men have set a course due sex, they are incapable of veering from it or halting their progress. We, on the other hand, hold that men are intelligent beings who can update their situation on a second-by-second basis and change or stop what they are doing accordingly.
So who’s calling men robots here, exactly?
James – Oh, the number of libertarians with a developed theory of self-ownership and the necessity of consent when it comes to PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING BUT SEX is approximately in the smajillions.