Eivind Berge, the Norwegian Men’s Rights blogger who was arrested after making repeated death threats against police on his blog, has been released from jail. The country’s Supreme Court has ruled that his comments – in which, among other things, he talked about how killing police was on his “bucket list” – are not illegal. His property will be returned to him and he is evidently entitled to compensation for his time in jail.
As far as I can figure it from the Google-translated articles I’ve read, the Supreme Court has ruled that statements on the internet are not “public” and therefore his threats don’t count as “incitement” under the law. Here’s what one article says:
Supreme Court’s Appeals Committee believes statements Berge has made on his blog are not covered by the Freedom of the definition in the Penal Code. incitement to violence and murder of police officers are therefore not presented publicly in the legal sense and therefore is not criminal, says the Supreme Court.
Apparently the issue was a fairly narrow legal one. According to the same article, the law under which he was prosecuted (written long before the birth of the Internet) “operates with a public safety and publishing concept that … do not take account of electronic publishing on the Internet.” The majority on the Supreme Court, the article goes on to say, felt that “the indictment includes actions that are clearly worthy of punishment,” but that existing law does not allow punishment for statements made on the Internet.
If anyone here knows Norwegian, let me know if this is correct. Here and here are several more articles in Norwegian, translated by Google. Here’s an article in English, written before the Supreme Court rendered its judgment, that spells out the issues a little more clearly.
On his blog, Berge celebrates his victory in the courts:
My blog is legal after all. The police had no lawful basis for pursuing criminal charges against me. This means the case has collapsed for the prosecution and I will be entitled to compensation for the three weeks I spent in prison. I was arrested and jailed for speech which the Supreme Court has ruled is legal, so obviously the entire prosecution was utterly baseless.
He considers his release a giant victory for Men’s Rights:
Being a political prisoner provided a welcome boost to my activism. … The entire process has been tremendously empowering for the Men’s Rights Movement. This spectacular prosecution of an MRA sparked debate and demonstrated to the horror of the feminist establishment that there are more antifeminists out there than they knew. I am not some kind of extremist easily dismissed, even though some of my writings may appear somewhat ungenteel. While my kind of violent rhetoric is legal, it is no longer needed. We are strong enough to fight feminism in more elegant and subtle ways now.
I will highlight some of Berge’s “ungenteel” opinions in future posts.
See here and here for previous posts of mine on Berge, which include many examples of his “violent rhetoric.”
and if you aren’t trolling
I’d just like to take a moment to enjoy Steele questioning whether someone is trolling, please.
I do think that this is also just about the worst place in the world to discuss Incel. These vile individuals don’t care. They’ve made a hobby of laughing at men’s pain – you’re no exception. There are other places much better suited – may I recommend Love-Shy.com?
MollyRen, I started thinking about girls when I was 15. They seemed like alien species at the time. I saw my friends and schoolmates getting girlfriends, having their first times and enjoying themselves at a time I couldn’t even imagine getting my first kiss.
This went on until 2007, when I was 19 and, by pure chance, met a girl who immediately told me she likes me, wants to have a serious relationship with me and for us to have sex. It was like heaven. But then I made a huge mistake and that turned her off. It lasted little more than two weeks.
I cried, begged her to give me another chance, waited for her with flowers. I saw a therapist but what the fuck could he do, turn back time and make me not repeat that mistake I made with her? Find me another girlfriend? Convince me that it’s not so bad and that I will find somebody even though it was clear it won’t happen easily, if ever? Give me pills?
And she…. She never changed her mind. Eventually she find somebody else and lost her virginity to him.
After a while I tried killing myself because of her. Couldn’t take it, She was the only girl who ever wanted me and wanted me so badly in the beginning and now she was with some other guy while I remained alone and aching for her.
Two long and painful years had to pass before I met a girl who was eventually to become my second gf. During that time I never even kissed another girl, despite wanting it so much. When it came to that second girl I was so cautious and scared that I used to ignore her calls for months. I knew what kind of suffering I am into if she leaves me one day. No other girl would put up with that. When I finally gave us a chance she eventually left me after 8 months. And there was no sex, ever.
After her I’m just a wreck. That July 5, 2010 was the end of me.
I never had a girlfriend after her, never even came close. That girl I fucked already had a boyfriend, she never cared for me. She has just shown me how late I am, telling me I missed the bus years ago and that no girl will put up with such inexperienced guy.
I don’t want to be looking for anybody anymore. I am now dedicated to government and parents helping me and people like me. We must organize and get more chances. Othewise we will just suffer disaster after disaster, with enormous amounts of pain between.
Zombie:
So… do something about it. You said that getting laid once would have saved your relationship (though I wonder, did she know you were trying to get some on the side?).
You’ve been laid. You aren’t a “lifetime” incel.
But you still have the problem. That means it’s not the fucking.
And really… your nine years is as nothing to me; my year was what it was; to me. I’m not foaming at the mouth and pounding the keys that people are killing me by not finding women for me to fuck.
Part of it is that I went and found other things to do; and didn’t obsess on the lack of sex. Part of it is… I went and found women who wanted to fuck.
Nothing is stopping you. I had a guy I was at DLI (the US Gov’t Language School), who was 20, and bummed as all fuck about being a virgin. Never been kissed, etc.. He resolved it. Got a hotel room, used the phonebook, called an escort service and spent the evening having some slippery fun.
He said it was worth it.
You could do the same. You don’t. That’s YOUR fault, no one else’s.
Zombie: You’re also forgetting that I was in a SEXLESS relationship AGAINST MY WILL.
Not according to you. You were too shy/insecure to act. That was your will failing, not your active attempts being thwarted.
Own your actions (or lack of same).
That’s the result of incel.
No, it isn’t. “Incel” isn’t a disease. Lack of sex is the end result. The cause is depression, poor hygiene, unrealistic standards, cowardice, etc.
“Incel” isn’t the cause, it’ the result.
I mourned that chance because I knew I will never be given another one like that. And I wasn’t.
Are you dead? No. Then you don’t know that you “weren’t” offered such a chance. You were depressed. I was depressed when that relationship ended; not suicical, but past really caring about life. I lost a lot of weight.
It sucked. But dude, you are 24. I spent 16 years in the Army. I’m 45. So… just to make it to my age, you have 21 years. In 21 years you have lots of time to find someone.
At 24 I’d had… four relationships. My best friend, at 23 had one. The four women I was involved with… one had had 1 relationship, one had had none. The other two had more. One of those relationships (the last one) was about two years, and there was no PIV. So I went about two years without PIV. Didn’t kill me. Didn’t make me unable to get a partner.
You aren’t doomed to lifelong loneliness because you aren’t making like a bunny rabbit.
If you weren’t so screwed up that you thought other people owed you. If you didn’t think it was someone else’s responsibiluty to make it possible for you to get laid.
It’s not.
FakeVictim, dude…you asked your therapist to fuck you? See, this is why no one wants to date you. You have no sense of boundaries, and no understanding of the fact that women are not sex vending machines.
A therapist is not a sex worker. You do not ask her for sex. If she was to sleep with you she could potentially lose her license. Stop trying to get people fired because you’re a self-centered asshole with no common sense.
Not to mention, the fact that you did beg your therapist to fuck you? Shows that it’s not really about you wanting a relationship at all, it’s just about you wanting sex. You didn’t beg her to be your girlfriend, oh no…you tried to manipulate and guilt trip her into sex. Because that’s what this is all about.
Attempting blockquotes…
Foiled by the blockquotes.
Options three and four, yep! (Well, you need a doctor for the pills, not a therapist, but they might refer you.)
The point of therapy is not to get you dates. The point of therapy is to help you not feel tortured over getting dates, whether you get them or not.
She didn’t lose her virginity to NOT-YOU. She lost it to that guy. She wasn’t doing it at you.
No. You tried killing yourself because of you. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but she did not willfully try to harm you. She just tried to live her own life. If you perceived that as terrible harm, that’s because of what was going on in your head.
So, again, you had a part in this. This is about your behavior. The women of the world cannot fix you when you pull stuff like this.
If you got a Government Date, and then didn’t call her for months because of weird projection issues, do you think that would help?
I’m not saying your hopeless. But “girls being more available” is not where your hope lies. The problem is you.
More fool you.
Seriously, why not just admit that you’re constantly looking for someone else to blame instead of looking in the mirror?
In the last 24 hours alone, you’ve posted endless reasons why no self-respecting woman should date you. Just re-read what you’ve written and try to imagine how someone else might react to it. Even when you get the faintest glimmer of understanding as to why people are so profoundly turned off by you, you’ll have made some progress.
Oh, and don’t got God’s sake email Varpole – he’ll just fill your head up with more MRA bullshit, which you absolutely do NOT need at this point.
“In that kind of headspace, who the hell would want to risk their life by going out with you? What happens if things don’t work out, will you stalk the poor girl and maybe kill her? I’m being serious here, not sarcastic. Your parents and the government employees you wrote to were and are doing the women of the world a HUGE favour, but what they should be doing is getting you somewhere where you can hopefully get help (and I DON’T mean by setting you up with a partner) before you actually DO kill someone.”
You are a fool. I’ve went out with many girls and been rejected many times. Nothing ever happened to them. Nothing even happened to these girls I’ve been in a relationship with and the emotional investment there was enormous. Then you throw in your misandric idiocy about killing a girl when I never said that girls are to blame at all.
You fail to see the causation
1. Government and parents refuse to help me
2. That makes me inexperienced and my attempts clumsy
3. So I fail- be it by rejection or by being clumsy in a relationship
4. So I remain incel and emotionally stressed for enormous amounts of time
5. And then I eventually kill myself because I can’t stand the pain they could stop
How is it not clear that this is their fault? They have already tried to murder me when I tried to commit suicide and they are bent on trying to kill me again.
Your “help” is already tried out. In fact, I’ve been booted from various therapists as unmotivated for therapeutic work. You know I will never be imprisoned for ideas alone without making direct threats and I will never make them. What I intend to do is only for me to know.
Right now I am a peaceful activist.
Uh, I do care about romantically lonely people. It SUCKS. I tend to get rapidly less sympathetic when they say it’s worse than rape and that anyone who doesn’t set them up on a date is murdering them.
Victim: Okay, first step: don’t fucking ignore ladies’ phone calls, okay? Frankly, I find it *astonishing* that you’ve managed to be so romantically successful despite being so self-sabotaging.
Also, ask someone out when you’re interested in them and don’t fuck douchebags.
IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT.
NOBODY OWES YOU SEX.
NOBODY OWES YOU A RELATIONSHIP.
Until you grasp these very simple principles, you’ll just go round and round in increasingly futile circles.
You’ve “went out” with many girls and you’re still complaining about being incel? Daaaaamn dude.
Hint: the government and parents aren’t helping anyone else, either. *Everyone* is clumsy in relationships when they start out (and, hell, for their entire dating lives). It won’t poison your chances. Being passive and a douchebag will.
I just can’t get my head around the notion that the government is somehow supposed to kiss everything better.
I’d be tempted to ask “how?”, but I fear I’d get an elaborate answer.
Don’t phrase it like this. Phrase it like “I never did anything to them.” Because if you attacked them, that would not just “happen.”
The government doesn’t help anyone get dates, and most parents don’t either. Yet people somehow get dates anyway.
A lot of people are still inexperienced and clumsy at 24, though. Good thing the human lifespan is not 30 years.
The pain is NOT coming from not having dates!!!!!!! The pain is coming from inside you! Hell, you’ve had dates and you still have this pain! Stop saying “well, then I must need more, better dates!” They will not fix the problem with YOU!
Imagine someone has a disease that makes them want to eat all the time, but everything they eat tastes terrible and they throw it up and feel even worse. Is the treatment:
A) Keep feeding them! Maybe you’ll find just the right food!
B) FIX THEIR DAMN DISEASE.
I’m not surprised. You seem to think that the only thing a therapist can do to help you is provide you with women.
Maybe try going to a therapist with your real problem–that thinking about women and dating makes you anxious and miserable–and they’ll be able to help you with that.
I’ve went out with many girls and been rejected many times.
Which is it? You can’t get a chance? Seems you are now saying you had many chances.
So you get rejected. Gov’t issued dates aren’t going to change it.
Guess what… We all start out inexperienced and clumsy. You are wallowing in it. Blaming other people for you not working on your problems.
How is it not clear that this is their fault?
How in the name all that’s holy is this their fault? Are they telling you to give up? Are they calling women you have dates with (many women, to hear you tell it) and saying, “We want him to die from lack of nookie, string him along and leave him high and dry,”?
Did thye pour drinks and then feed you barbiturates? Hold your head under water?
Becuase that is what it means to try and murder someone. No one murders someone else if that person commits suicide.
What I intend to do is only for me to know.
That’s some threatening language right there. Creepy dude.
mikey, it’s your frantic sputtering rage and increasingly absurd stream of lies we laugh at.
Wait, you’re 24? 24? Dude, I was pushing 23 when I was in my first relationship; 25 when I was in my first long term relationship. It’s not all that unusual. God, from the way you were carrying on, I assumed you were pushing forty. Not that that would justify the rapey shit, of course…
Get a hobby. Get out more. Incel isn’t really a thing, don’t make yourself one. Say you’re singe. When you do meet someone and she asks you to tell you about yourself, you really don’t want to have to answer “well, I’m an incel, and I spend all my time blogging about being an incel, and calling my parents murderers for not getting me laid.” Right?
Instead of calling yourself incel, how about “single”? Do you see the difference? It’s basically the same thing, only framing it as something full of possibilities, rather than a millstone around your neck.
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
Why are government-sponsored dates better than speed dating?
I’d like to know.
Good lord, do I hate the term “incel.” Avictimofmurderers has just cemented my disdain for the term.
Hey! Victimo! I’m 24 and haven’t had sex. At all. And yet, I do not suffer from it. I know how it is to work yourself up over something, I really do, but what you’re doing right now is not helping you at all. Quit writing long screeds about how not getting sex every six months is some kind of unbearable torture, because it really isn’t bad at all. Your problems will not be solved by a warm body and an orgasm: if you were to somehow get regular sex as the person you are now, you would just begin to fixate on other things that would make you just as miserable.
The government isn’t going to start up a lonely-dude-on-the-internet fund to make sure you get laid every six months just because you wrote a few letters, and the only way your parents could help you is to give you money to go to a prostitute. This is not on them. It’s all on you, buddy, so abandon these thoughts of people trying to kill you by not getting you a wife and a house with a white picket fence, and abandon the term “incel” completely because it makes you focus on the wrong problem entirely and makes you think about sexuality in a completely distorted way. This bullshit is bad for you.
pecunium,
There is obviously something stopping me from going out and finding women to fuck. My lack of knowledge where they are or how to approach them, for example.
As for chances, it’s pretty certain that I will never meet a girl who will explicitly tell me she wants to be in a relationship with me half an hour after she met me.
Cliff,
I don’t understand the obsession some people have therapy. Therapy is supposed to make me feel ok that I am involuntary celibate? It never did and never will. Never. But people like you can’t accept that. It’s always my fault for not choosing the right therapist or not listening to him or something else…. Anyway, it’s my fault. Therapists could convince anybody but me, Eivind Berge and a few people you dislike that being involuntary celibate is ok. Sure.
I didn’t call that girl for three months because I was afraid of being hurt again. That was in 2009. I had dozens of dates after that and never pulled something like that again.
Cassandra, why would I want a relationship with a 40 year-old woman? I don’t care about her at all. Unlike me, she’s not in mortal danger. She asked me how she could help me and I told her how. She refused, end of story.
Oh, well that makes it alllllllllll better than if it’s on her off hours. ALL THE SARCASM THERE.
Dude, you’re not a not an incel by your own definitions. WHat the fuck are you whining about?