Eivind Berge, the Norwegian Men’s Rights blogger who was arrested after making repeated death threats against police on his blog, has been released from jail. The country’s Supreme Court has ruled that his comments – in which, among other things, he talked about how killing police was on his “bucket list” – are not illegal. His property will be returned to him and he is evidently entitled to compensation for his time in jail.
As far as I can figure it from the Google-translated articles I’ve read, the Supreme Court has ruled that statements on the internet are not “public” and therefore his threats don’t count as “incitement” under the law. Here’s what one article says:
Supreme Court’s Appeals Committee believes statements Berge has made on his blog are not covered by the Freedom of the definition in the Penal Code. incitement to violence and murder of police officers are therefore not presented publicly in the legal sense and therefore is not criminal, says the Supreme Court.
Apparently the issue was a fairly narrow legal one. According to the same article, the law under which he was prosecuted (written long before the birth of the Internet) “operates with a public safety and publishing concept that … do not take account of electronic publishing on the Internet.” The majority on the Supreme Court, the article goes on to say, felt that “the indictment includes actions that are clearly worthy of punishment,” but that existing law does not allow punishment for statements made on the Internet.
If anyone here knows Norwegian, let me know if this is correct. Here and here are several more articles in Norwegian, translated by Google. Here’s an article in English, written before the Supreme Court rendered its judgment, that spells out the issues a little more clearly.
On his blog, Berge celebrates his victory in the courts:
My blog is legal after all. The police had no lawful basis for pursuing criminal charges against me. This means the case has collapsed for the prosecution and I will be entitled to compensation for the three weeks I spent in prison. I was arrested and jailed for speech which the Supreme Court has ruled is legal, so obviously the entire prosecution was utterly baseless.
He considers his release a giant victory for Men’s Rights:
Being a political prisoner provided a welcome boost to my activism. … The entire process has been tremendously empowering for the Men’s Rights Movement. This spectacular prosecution of an MRA sparked debate and demonstrated to the horror of the feminist establishment that there are more antifeminists out there than they knew. I am not some kind of extremist easily dismissed, even though some of my writings may appear somewhat ungenteel. While my kind of violent rhetoric is legal, it is no longer needed. We are strong enough to fight feminism in more elegant and subtle ways now.
I will highlight some of Berge’s “ungenteel” opinions in future posts.
See here and here for previous posts of mine on Berge, which include many examples of his “violent rhetoric.”
D’oh! I go away for a couple of hours, and I miss Steelepole joining in. And, to be fair, actually arguing with someone he disagrees with even though that person’s a manosphere dude. On the other hand:
“I’m an average-looking young man, but I’m not model-gorgeous.”
The “but” is redundant. “Not model-gorgeous” is implied in “average-looking”. You could do it the other way around “I’m not a model, just average looking”. That way, the second clause in the sentence clarifies the first, rather than merely reiterating it. This is why you’re not a writer.
“I do just fine, and I am currently in an excellent long-term relationship with a compatible woman – like myself, semi-attractive, semi-intelligent.”
Seriously? It’s not a case of “many would consider her semi-attractive, but to me she’s beautiful?” Not “she’s no model, but damn is she fun to be with?” You’ve leaped straight to “she’s the best I could get, under the circumstances.” If I thought she was real, I’d feel sorry for her. And I’m not even going to touch “semi-intelligent”, given that I doubt you could recognise brains if Dr Frankenstein himself was shoving some into your skull.
“How do I do it? I always take the jump, every time. I’m in a bit of a rush, but I’ll expand on this point later.”
I get my dating advice from sitcoms too. Don’t worry if you have anything in common! You’re attracted to her – well, semi-attracted – so go for it! Your shared mediocrity is all you truly need!
Well this got bizarre quick.
Therapy is charlatanism.
Uh huh. Will someone help me move all this spare surprise i’m not using?
“Won’t someone help us?!”, “You need to get help if that’s the way you feel, dude”, “No, that’s the wrong kind of help! No one will help uuuussssss!”
Seriously, i’ll join in the party of awesome peoples in this thread who’ve been out of relationships or had no sex for a long time, or (like me) have never even had either. The difference between us and you is we recognise where the problem lies (hint: it’s not everyone else), or are content with the situation.
Sometimes I feel lonely (a much better term, I agree) and wish I had something relationship-ish (not too worried about sex myself, i’m all about the cuddles 😀 ), or even more friends. Thing is, i’m not a giant arsehole who thinks they’re entitled to someone’s attention, and even if I was.. I don’t think i’d like that (much better to be with someone who wants to be with you than someone who’s “forced” to, and that’s not even getting into how shitty that is for the other person).
For some people, like me, their problem is that they’re non-social (which doesn’t exactly help when “meeting people” is sort of a requirement of making friends or finding someone to have a relationship with).
For you, it’s because you’re a shitty person. You can’t hide that. And the fact that you even talk about hiding it is very telling.
Of the very romantically lonely* people I’ve known, one was very bad at even talking to boys, one was highly introverted to the point that people assumed he hated them even when he didn’t, and one was introverted and had some pretty serious depression for a while. So, you know, there are reasons that aren’t “the gender I prefer is EVIL”, but that aren’t “I’m a bad person and no one loves me,” either.
And I bet that whatshisface the incel had similar reasons for his romantic loneliness, but now unfortunately the reason is that “angry and bitter” isn’t a good color on anyone.
*Many of them had excellent circles of friends, so they weren’t completely lonely.
I’m literally reading a guy compare the pain or rape to the pain of being “incel,” wanting the government to waste tax dollars playing matchmaker (a profession that actually exists and that you can pay for yourself btw), who is wondering why women don’t want to sleep with him? This sense of entitlement is not attractive. Women are probably getting red flags from the type of behavior you exhibit and staying away. It’s not up to anyone to fuck you to prevent you from hurting yourself or someone else. It’s your responsibility to do some real soul searching and self reflection to figure out what it is that turns people off from you and fix your own damn life.
I was “incel” all throughout high school and it sucked. I was lonely as hell. I was socially awkward, not conventionally attractive (didn’t know how to work with what I had and didn’t have the money to dress well or do anything to look better), and had no self confidence at all. So I didn’t get dates, or even asked on dates by people I wasn’t interested in. At 17 I was finally able to branch out from my home town, and by age 19 I’d found people I related to and men who found me attractive. See, I had to go way out of my comfort zone, find people with my interests, and make some changes to how I physically presented myself (actually put some effort into looking good), to attract men. I also had to take some chances and deal with rejection.
I know many men who have been “incel” up until their mid to late twenties, and then they found someone. I even deflowered one of those men and dated him for years (note I had to woo him because he was too busy staring off into space to seek out a girlfriend). But these aren’t men who are talking about raping and killing in the name of not getting laid. These are dudes who, instead of wallowing in self pity, distracted themselves with other things. Being in a relationship wasn’t the end all be all for them. If you think it is, of course you’re going to be depressed. If you blame everyone else for your not getting laid, nobody is gonna want to sleep with you. People don’t want to be around that type of bullshit. And even worse, nobody wants to date the person who threatens violence or suicide every time you try to break up with them.
As for women having the choice to not being incel, this totally varies on how attractive you are. There are plenty of not conventionally attractive women who cannot find anyone to sleep with or be in a relationship with. Meanwhile, there are plenty of not conventionally attractive men who can. If I was willing to lower my standards to men I have zero attraction to, of course I could have sex pretty much any time I want, but so could a man. But according to this bullshit incel theory, choosing to not have sex with people you aren’t attracted to still makes you incel…. unless you’re a woman of course.
WUUTTTTTTTT????
Let me just sum up my tl;dr to say the most important bit: THERE ARE PEOPLE CALLED MATCHMAKERS AND RELATIONSHIP ADVISORS, YOU DON’T NEED GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED DATING SERVICES BECAUSE THESE THINGS ALREADY EXIST.
I bet this guy opposes governments paying for birth control too loll.
Dude I don’t want to work in customer service right now. It’s actually the main source of my depression and literally makes me think suicidal thoughts daily. If i were to commit suicide, is it the fault of those who didn’t just give me my dream job fresh out of high school? Or is it something I have to work my ass off for until it happens and deal with setbacks and shit jobs in the meantime, if I ever succeed in my goals at all? My parents could’ve just given me the money to intern for years upon years in my field until I finally started getting regular paying work. But since they didn’t, would they be murderers if I were to commit suicide? Should the government just make people hire me even if I don’t have the skills and experience they’re looking for?
I could say all of these things but I’m not an entitled asshole. I’m an adult who deals with my depression and the bad things that happen to me like an adult. I push forward and do what I need to do to get to the place where what I want will happen, and don’t threaten murder when it doesn’t. Jesus H Christ!
“Sir Bodsworth, I don’t think any women will apply there. I actually haven’t thought about that very much.”
This is obvious. It’s also obvious that part of the reason you haven’t thought about it is because you know that no or very few women would be willing to sign up for your idiotic scheme, which means that they’d have to be forced into it. And there would have to be lots of them, at least as many as there are “incel” guys, if long term relationships are the goal. Which is where it turns into sex slavery. It’s worse than regular sex slavery, actually, in that the goal is to force a woman to stay with you permanently and provide emotional as well as sexual services. I mean, you’re aiming for plausible deniability by saying that the women won’t have to sleep with you after being set up on a date, but they will also be considered a “scammer” if they don’t hook up with one of the guys they’ve gone on a date with after meeting 30 guys.
You know on some level that what you’re advocating is government-sponsored sex slavery, you’re just too chickenshit to admit it. Here’s an amusing little experiment, though – go to blogs or forums that have a lot of female users and propose your scheme. Make sure to include all the details, like how any participant who doesn’t find herself wanting to hook up with any of the guys she was set up with after meeting 30 guys (already defined to be guys who’ve had a hard time finding women who liked them in the past, so we already know they’re not compatible with many people or easy to find a match for) will be deemed to be a “scammer”. Lay it all out, and ask women if they’d interested in participating in such a scheme, where they would be in some way paid, but not too much. See how many takers you get.
If it’s not very many (and it won’t be), you’ve just proven that your scheme would fail for lack of interest from female participants. So you’re right back to the government forcing women into it, no matter how hard you try to pretend otherwise.
Problems that are very easy to not very difficult to solve:
– want sex (masturbate)
– want dates (speed dating, OkCupid, any matchmaking organization)
– want partnered sex (prostitution)
Problems that are more complicated and for which there is no easy fix:
– want someone who fit your criteria of beauty, intelligence,…
– want someone who wants you sexually
– want love
– want relationships
Many (adult) people are miserable because there lonely and friendless. I imagine that they probably account for a not negligible part of suicides. Should the government or their parents also arrange playdates or else they’re criminals.
(btw, the idea of my parents taking in charge my love life: a bit creepy too)
>>>And, dude, six months? I spent all my teenage years incel!
Wait, all that fucking whining is for a *six months* dry spell?
Dude! *Everybody* has fucking 6 months dry spells in their lives. It’s not a thing. It’s not ‘incel’.
Not sure? Not sure?
[headdesk repeatedly until blood sprays over keyboard]
How can any reasonable person not be 100% certain that an analogy between affirmative action and rape is by its very definition going to be unbelievably stupid and patently self-serving?
Have you really no idea how creepy just that half-sentence makes you sound, never mind everything else?
With views like yours, you’re the living embodiment of David’s “men who should not be with women ever” tag.
I met my first true love at a government-sponsored playdate place (if you sort of squint ….) 😉
When it comes to extremely shy men who never even held hands their theapy would be different- gruadual introduction to women, sex surrogates and the wingmen.
WTF?
The “wingmen”? So the gov’t is supposed to set you up on dates, (as many as it takes) and teach you crap like, “wingmen”?
State sanctioned PUA sort of crap?
Not that I think going out with buddies and checking out the hot folks is bad. It’s not that I haven’t backed friends’ plays, but the tone of it… ewww!
I know plenty of women who find shyness extremely attractive.
From the evidence of Robert’s posts, shyness really isn’t his major drawback, any more than having a lazy eye was Mister Al’s.
So Robert thinks himself “a victim of murderers” because his parents and the government won’t help him find a woman to date. Classic. What will they think of next.
I doubt that it is, either. It might be his obviously extreme sense of entitlement coupled with his self-professed intense neediness.
@Jessay, i’m sorry to hear that your job is causing you such pain and i hope you finds a way to ammeliorate that pain in a non-harmful way, and soon!
@VictimOfSelfpity, i’m a conventionally attractive (if i do say so me own self) woman married to the love of my life. I am going through a dry spell lately due to stress and exhaustion (my husband started his own business a year ago, which was his dream but we’re all aware of how much stress and time being a successful businessman/entrepreneur/CEO/etc takes, right, Steele?) How would your government program handle that? Would it step in and force him to pay attention to me? How would the business be run in the meantime? Is he allowed to have dreams of his own if they leave me dateless on a Friday night because he has to deal with clients? Am i allowed to take advantage of the “Government Girlfriends” program but ONLY date women?
Your ideas, they are stupid and nonsensical. Even for an MRA.
“Affirmative action is just as bad as rape!!!!!1111oneonetwo”
Fucking honkies.
What heidihi said is important–once you’re in a relationship, it doesn’t mean that all your needs are now met forever. Your partner is going to have priorities besides you, they’re going to be away from you sometimes, they’re going to disappoint you and make you angry sometimes.
If having a strange woman not go on a date seems “as bad as rape” to you, I don’t think you’re gonna take it well if your girlfriend has a few weeks where she can’t go on a date with you either.
Get some goddamn perspective, then try to find a partner. Otherwise the partner’s really not gonna even help.
Oh wow, I missed that in the wall of whine. How does that even get slipped in there?
@avictimofadessicatedboner
If “incel” is not a problem for women, why would women voluntarily sign up for this program for any reason other than to make money? And why would any woman who wants to make money sign up for this if it’s an employment opportunity that only lasts 30 nights? Or are you just looking to exploit the financially needy?
If you “incel”s are desperate enough to commit suicie or go on a murder spree, the solution is to walk up to every girl you see and ask “Excuse me, would you be interested in sleeping with me?” (and leaving them the fuck alone if they say no). I guarantee you you will have more than one sexual encounter a month, even if it might be with someone that you find actively unattractive. If that sounds unappealing to you, you could man up like the rest of us and admit that you’re only willing to have sex and/or relationships with people you are attracted to, and accept the cost to that.
Actually, please don’t do this.
If you just want to sleep with someone, anyone, stop playing the “sex workers don’t count” game and hire a damn escort. Lots of them are actually quite friendly, genuine people and will go on a date with you and talk to you as well as sleeping with you.
Yeah, you’ll pay the lady for her time, but don’t give me the “auugagh I’ll do anything” act if you won’t do something as simple as save up a couple hundred bucks. The fact that you pay her doesn’t mean that it’s not real sex or a real date–she’s a real person, this is happening in reality, it’s goddamn real.
It’s not likely to lead to a white-picket-fence ending, but neither is propositioning random strangers on the street, so you might as well do something that’s respectful and will relieve at least some of your unbearable incel misery.
@Cliff
Even better idea, but since the dessicated boner is trying to smokescreen us with “companionship” I think his views on sex workers are pretty blatant so I didn’t even bother with that.
What in the ever-lovin’ blue-eyed FUCK DID I JUST READ
When Berge complains about affirmative action, what it means to him is redistribution from men to women, not from those fucking honkies to people of color. Maybe this is a cultural difference. I’m just guessing, though, that affirmative action is about race in your mind. Even if you knew that he wasn’t thinking of race, you could still accurately call him a honky
I’ll expand my replies concerning earlier posts a bit….
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III – I don’t see gay men having problems with incel unless they’re absolutely hideous or live in backwards communities where it is dangerous to come out of the closet. I’ve visited gay sites out of curiosity and got a bunch of offers I could never get from women.
MollyRen- I had two relationships in the past but I believe one is clearly incel after he hasn’t kissed or had sex with anybody for years, as in my case. I may not be an extreme incel who never held a girl’s hand but I am absolutely incel now.
Polliwog- these people already murdered me, turning me into a living dead due to my incel. They’re not threatening, they’re already started killing and I’m not the only victim. Dozens of other men like me commited suicide because nobody wanted to help them with incel. That is murder. Incel isn’t just a boner, incel is a living death which prevents you from obtaining some of the most important things in life, like sex and love. You are the one with no empathy and guys like Sodini are the monsters you created through your heartlessness and lack of understanding that some people need your help.
“I’m sure a guy who thinks that not getting laid is THE WORST THING EVER will be totally chill and understanding when his government-mandated date decides not to sleep with him, right?”
Incel is more than just getting laid, it is something that prevents you from things like having a romantic partner forever and makes you unable to start your own family. Those are some very serious things to deny to a human being.
If that government-mandated date declines to be with me they will just send me another one. I see no problem there.
hellkell- nobody is taking any rights from women that way. They get paid to go on these dates and look for a partner, even if they are single. They are free to register for such program and get paid to go to dates, nobody is forcing them to do anything.
Gametime- “This would be the funniest thing I read all day if it wasn’t so fucking creepy. “Sure, that guy did literally kill some people, but consider that his parents and government NEVER ONCE got him laid! Who are the REAL murderers, hmm?”
Yes, they are the real murderers for not helping him find somebody and making him live in despair. What’s creepy is expecting people to be robots who should be perfectly ok with never having anybody. It’s complete dehumanization of people who actually need help and I don’t mean the shrink’s couch because that will never find them a girlfriend. I know. I begged shrinks to fuck me AFTER their talks and meds didn’t solve my incel.
Nobinayamu- “How on earth can lonely people gain meaningful companionship from a government sponsored program that would literally force unwilling participants to have dinner with them? As for sexual surrogates: pay for them yourself. You don’t need the government for that. And if you want friends and family members to fix you up, just ask them to.”
I already said these girls would be paid to go on dates with incel men. As for sexual surrogates that will be needed for those extremely shy ones, not all of them are patient enough with extremely shy men or know about their plight. In many cases it could end up traumatic for those men. But the government trained ones would know exactly how shy these men are and how to treat them.
Sharculese -” your boner isn’t anyone else’s responsibility, no matter how much you wanna try to blame other people for it.
take this manipulative nonsense somewhere else. you’re not going to make anyone feel guilty about the fact that a nasty, mean-spirited asshole isn’t getting laid.”
I suppose you that by my boner you mean my incel. Incel, in my view, is a health problem and it’s not just my responsibility. If I were the only one not getting laid that would be ok but there are many others like me who could benefit from government help.
Molly Ren- “Dude, do you have any FRIENDS? You might want to start with those before dating.”
I do have friends, they can’t help me with women due to the fact that all the girls they know are taken and most of them also have trouble with women.
BigMomma- “I mean, why should that unconditional love not be provided on tap, rather than love being an intricate process of compromise and trust that you have to negotiate and work at?
all i hear is I DESERVE TO BE ADORED BECAUSE I AM.
and the reason the adoration is lacking? is it because i am a shithead who blames everyone else for my shitty expectation and entitlements? No, it’s because my parents failed me and women are hypergamous bitches.”
I agree that love is an intricate process of compromise and trust that has to be worked at but you have to start somewhere and if you can never get a date or get a date very rarely than you can never start. The rest of your post is just shaming nonsense I never said at all.
MollyRen (@MollyRen) “So… why can’t you arrange your own dates? This confuses me deeply.”
I can and did but dating sites consist of huge numbers of men and women going there get tons of messages. It’s not that I try once or twice an year- I try almost every day and that is how often am I able to arrange a date ! And I’m not the only one. Dating sites are crap.
As for real life, I can’t arrange dates there due to the fact I just don’t meet enough women and never really developed sexual confidence. I am always friendzoned because I make no inititative. Me being an asshole, as you here kindly call me, has absolutely nothing to with it.
Ugh- “You know, I heard about this guy named the Dalai Lama, he NEVER got laid and yet also didn’t kill himself.”
Using outliers like Dalai Lama to prove that men should be happy with being incel is just about retarded as saying Susan Boyle shows how women can be incel.
Myoo- “So a woman HAS to have a relationship with one out of every thirty men she is set up with or she gets fired. Yeah, totally legit and not rapey at all.”
The goal of this is to prevent scammers who would just go on dates to get the money while never really wanting to be with anybody, for example because they already have a boyfriend. It’s unfortunate but I can’t see a better solution.
Cliff Pervocracy- “Seriously, I don’t understand the mindset where you can’t talk to women at all right now, but if you got to talk to women on a date, that would change everything and you’d have a life partner right away. The construct of a “date” is just not that magical. You’re still going to have to figure out how to talk to a woman.”
You’re forgetting that there are two programs for two types of men here – one program for the extremely shy and inexperienced and one program for those who have some experience. First group should learn to talk to women and have sexual surrogates, other group would go on these arranged dates, because they already know how to talk to women and probably had sex.
Nobinayamu- “But you, the cheese, are still standing alone. None of the women who were paid to date you are interested in being in a relationship with you. By your own -and I hesitate to even use this word- “logic” aren’t you, therefore, an obviously wrong person. If the government sets you up on 30 dates and no woman wants to see you again isn’t it clear that you are the problem?
Should the government continue wasting its money on paying women to date you once its clear that you suck?”
Men would also pay a fee for participating. If I can’t have any success after a lot of dates and keep trying government gets even more money.
Btw how do I quote? Sorry, I’m new to wordpress and blogs in general….
Oh geez, he’s back… o.o
OMG Okay.
@AVictim, “Men would also pay a fee for participating. If I can’t have any success after a lot of dates and keep trying government gets even more money.”
Tell me how this is different from a dating service, or an escort service where you are NOT guaranteed sex at the end of the evening.