Pickup gurus write a lot about how to (allegedly) get sex, or how they (allegedly) got sex, but almost nothing about sex itself. It’s pretty clear that a lot of PUAs are more interested in the psychological manipulations and power games inherent in “game,” or in adding another notch to their score, than they are in the actual sex that sometimes results from all their efforts.
It goes without saying that most PUAs have little interest in their partners’ pleasure. In a post with the title It Doesn’t Matter If She Orgasms Or Not, pickup guru Roosh explained that once upon a time,
I used to try to last as long as possible in bed. I wanted to make sure the girl got hers before I got mine, and the reason I did that was because I thought she would be attracted to me more and want to see me again.
But, Roosh being the asshole he is, even this minimal level of consideration – which he extended to his partners for his own selfish reasons – turned out to be too much for him to keep up:
Gradually I just stopped caring, and soon everything I did in bed was for my pleasure only. The only reason I’d delay orgasm is to make mine better, and I pretended I don’t hear her the first time she told me to drill slower or not to go so deep. I did whatever I wanted because I came to value my orgasm as sacred, and her pleasure as second to mine.
Given that sex with him in was likely not such a great treat to begin with, he found that being completely selfish didn’t actually make the girls he was with like him any less.
Girls didn’t want to fuck me more, they didn’t want to fuck me less. Not caring about their sexual pleasure had no effect on repeat calls and repeat sex.
No wonder PUAs are so obsessed with very young women – they’re less likely to have experienced good sex, and more likely to be willing to put up with bad simply because they don’t yet realize how good sex can get.
Back in 2008 when he wrote that post, Roosh’s main sexual worry was coming too quickly; these days it seems he has trouble coming at all. Now, there are plenty of reasons why guys can’t orgasm – health conditions, prescription medicine side effects, everyday anxieties, decreased sensitivity with age, and so on. Guys shouldn’t pressure themselves into coming on demand, or feel bad if they can’t.
But Roosh actually seems to feel good about his inability to orgasm – because he’s learned to use this bit of sexual dysfuction as a handy tool to manipulate his partners further:
Not being able to orgasm is one of the best ways to make a girl feel anxious and insecure. When I’m unable to come, which often happens with condoms (raw dog for life), I simply stop sex and say, “I’m not going to make it.” I can almost see her hamster spinning…
Is he not attracted to me anymore?
Is there something wrong with my vagina?
Should I give him a blowjob even though I don’t want to?
These are not the sorts of questions any straight man who’s not an utter creep wants his partner asking herself.
Roosh continues, gloating that his inability to orgasm
also shapes the power structure of the relationship. She knows that a man who doesn’t orgasm is more likely to stray to get that orgasm. As a result, she tests you less and does more things to win your favor.
Or she finds someone else who’s not a complete asshole, and moves on.
I knew a guy who thought like that!
Turns out he was a rapist, and I no longer date him.
“No wonder PUAs are so obsessed with very young women – they’re less likely to have experienced good sex, and more likely to be willing to put up with bad simply because they don’t yet realize how good sex can get.”
Very insightful.
If someone suddenly stopped and said this to me during sex, my first words would probably be, “Are you going to have a heart attack?” XD
And…. yep, that’s pre-zactly what I expected them to think.
I didn’t expect the assholes to ADMIT it. Do they really have no idea what they sound like….?
“I pretended I don’t hear her the first time she told me to drill slower or not to go so deep…”
Does anyone else get a sick rapey creepy vibe off that sentence? I just…blech.
From his post: ‘I pretended I don’t hear her the first time she told me to drill slower or not to go so deep’.
Uh, dude, if a girl is telling you to not go so deep, it’s quite possibly because you are HURTING her at that exact moment. Putting your pleasure above someone else’s is one thing, but actually being willing to hurt someone just to have your fun… there are no words.
And yet these same guys BLAME WOMEN for not wanting to have sex with them! It’s so ridiculous. This issue is one of many reasons that many women do not bother with one night stands anyway — it’s not some stupid evo psych bullshit about how we have to devote so much energy to reproduction, blah blah blah. No, it’s because if we’re not gonna come anyway, then what’s the point?
I’m never clear with these guys how much is true and how much is just them sharing their unpleasant little misogynistic fap fantasies with a gullible and adoring audience. Except in the case of Heartiste where it’s really very clear.
This isn’t as implausible as Heartiste but I don’t see any reason to believe it either. By this guy’s own account of himself he’s manipulative and unscrupulous so is there any reason to credit anything he says? This story seems well-tailored to its audience.
Also, if it’s true, he’s basically admitting he’s a rapist.
Nice.
For all those guys who think that women change their minds during sex for no good reason: that shit right there? Guys, don’t do that.
It’s one thing not to care if the person you’re having sex with has an orgasm. A selfish, stupid thing to be sure but -hey- more power to you. It’s something entirely different not to care if the person you’re having sex with is experiencing discomfort and/or pain. You don’t want to be “falsely accused”? Communication is incredibly important even and especially during consensual sex.
.
I enjoy mocking misogyny as much as the next person. But I know there are a lot of lurkers on this site; I’m being really serious. Don’t ignore the partner being penetrated if they ask you to slow down, change positions, lighten up, etc.
“The only reason I’d delay orgasm is to make mine better, and I pretended I don’t hear her the first time she told me to drill slower or not to go so deep. I did whatever I wanted because I came to value my orgasm as sacred, and her pleasure as second to mine.”
Dude, that’s just… wrong. Wrong on so many levels.
Not to mention, nobody likes a selfish lover.
Ow! Fuck!
So, basically, he’s confessing to rape here. I guess you can argue that if the girl put up with it, then technically, but fuck that. She told him to stop hurting her and he kept going–that she didn’t physically throw him off is not consent.
If it came down to having sex with guys like Roosh or never having sex again, I’d take never having sex again.
Presuming, of course, that she could have physically thrown him off of her. Depending on their position and/or disparity in height or weight she may have been unable.
Again, don’t do that shit.
And just to be clear the same rules apply for the partner who is being penetrated. If your partner asks you to stop doing something/moving a certain way/bouncing so hard/what ever knock it off.
“Does anyone else get a sick rapey creepy vibe off that sentence? I just…blech.”
Definitely… icky, disgusting, nasty? Take your pick.
I also don’t know whether to be amused or horrified that he seems just “lasting” is the key to a woman’s pleasure. No wonder he doesn’t notice a difference, he didn’t know how to get women off in the first place.
Sounds like Roosh is feeling his approaching old age. I predict in the not too distant future he’ll repost this article only with the words “erectile dysfunction” replacing “can’t orgasm.”
if it came down to having sex with guys like Roosh or never having sex again, I’d take never having sex again.
Yep, celibacy > rape.
YEP. Big time. My first thought was, “guess who else doesn’t give a shit if the other person is having fun or not? Rapists.”
If PUAs would take all the energy they put into trying to manipulate women into having sex with them, and put it into learning how to have great sex, well then doubtless their roster of sexual partners would drop but their frequency of sexual encounters would increase with that partner or those partners they get into LTRs with.
What’s that, you say? The only thing that matters to Roosh et al. is getting to put another notch on their “got my dick wet” belts? Oh, well, then.
If they can’t be arsed to learn how to be good lovers, it’s just less dating-scene competition for us who have.
Incidentally, Kitty may not be impressed, but she’s making an impression on me …. I may have trouble sleeping tonight.
What a douchebag (rooshbag?).
I’ll just leave this here, with a major trigger warning for body horror:
TMI TIME: My boyfriend doesn’t orgasm very often. The first few times, it did set my “hamster spinning,” if that’s what you want to call concern for your partner’s pleasure. Although it was less “oh no, now he won’t like me” and more “oh no, I want him to feel good.”
He explained to me that this is just the way his body works, he’s okay with it, and he gets pleasure without orgasm. We had lots of lovely, unworried sex after that.
…Then again, I’ve never broken up with a guy because he did orgasm, on account of on what planet does that make sense.
…I think Roosh just spelled out, in so many words, that he gets more pleasure from playing headgames with women’s self-esteem than he does from having an orgasm.
jesus.
I mean, seriously. His criteria for whether it’s okay? WHETHER IT GETS HIM MORE CALLBACKS.
“Guys, I tried NOT slapping woman, but even if I don’t slap them they still don’t call me back. So I don’t see the upside, guess I’m gonna keep on slapping them.”
Seriously. That is some fucked-up abuser logic right there.
Shit leave it to this asshole to make sex sound like the most depressing thing on the face of the Earth.
I have but one thing to say: ICK! What a CREEP!