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More terrible MRA thoughts on Sally Ride

Sally Ride, not thinking about boys.

We’ve already heard from the so-called Thinking Housewife on the subject of Sally Ride. Meanwhile, over on The Spearhead, the regulars also have opinions about Ride. Regular commenter Keyster has this to say about Ride’s work in promoting science and technology education for girls:

She was supposed to have inspired a generation of girls to take science and math. While she may have inspired the “Grrl Esteem” movement, very few girls went on to get degrees in math and science as a result of Sally Ride … .

She was frustrated by the fact young girls were very interested in math and science initially, “…but for some reason we lose them around the age of 13.” MMmmm…I wonder why that would be. Because they discovered an interest in boys? Not surprisingly, Sally was able to keep her interest.

That’s right: girls are incapable of thinking about both math and boys. Lesbians are the only women who can sustain an interest in math, because their brains aren’t cluttered with thoughts of Justin Bieber. (Ok, bad example.)

In another comment, Keyster expresses his annoyance at the fact that Ride turned out to be capable of astronautery despite being a woman.

Sally Ride proved that a woman can have “the right stuff”, like Amelia Earheart proved a woman can fly long distances.

OK so now that we know she won’t become hysterical during her period while in outerspace and allow her used tampons to clog the toilet, what do we do with this information? Just because a woman accomplishes something normally associated with men, is this inspiring young girls to spontaneously excel en masse and compete against men in male dominated arenas? Or are women like Sally Ride the exceptions that prove the rule?

You know, “exceptions that prove the rule” aren’t actually a thing. The fact that Ride was a capable astronaut doesn’t actually “prove the rule” that women aren’t capable as astronauts, but instead suggests that this particular rule is not a real rule. You would think that Keyster, as a logical male, would understand this.

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ithiliana
ithiliana
9 years ago

@Ostara321: Yep, we hear a lot about what Ella does, as reported by SteeleTroll, and what he BELIEVES she thinks, but nothing about what she might actually say (and no, I’m not saying copy and post directly what she says, but if he insists on dragging her into the discussion SO OFTEN to support him, it might be nice, as you say, to see some “Ella said she agreed with me” or even more amazing, “we discussed it, and she didn’t agree with everything I say” sort of thing).

I am dubious when Girlfriend being talked about on this blog always agrees with what Troll Dude says/does!

whataboutthemoonz
9 years ago

I went to a chocolate festival last February. They were out of chocolate-covered bacon by the time I got there, but the bacon brittle was pretty good.

ithiliana
ithiliana
9 years ago

All this ADULTERATING of chocolate!

You are CHOCOLATE ADULTERATOR!

ANTHEMA UPON THE ADULTERATORS!

ithiliana
ithiliana
9 years ago

Or, you know, ANATHEMA!!!

pillowinhell
9 years ago

I like the chocolate bon bons with the garlic liquer centers.

YUM!

Warning: you WILL feel the blood vessels in your eyeballs dialate AND it probably isn’t nice to kiss Your lover directly after eating one. Especially if you suspect they might be a vampire.

cloudiah
9 years ago

Bacon chocolate bars exist. Ella, not so much.

ostara321
ostara321
9 years ago

Yeah, it’s not that I necessarily think she doesn’t exist by default, I mean, there are a lot of couples out there where I figure they’re BOTH so horrible they deserve each other. And there are couples where one person seems really decent and the other person seems like a shitlord and I can’t figure what the non-shitlord sees in the shitlord, but hey, takes all kinds, yanno? What I AM dubious about are Ella’s opinions. Try talking to her about it. You might be surprised to discover that the two of you do not, in fact, actually share a brain, and she is her own person with her own thoughts and feelings, some of which, (SHOCK!) might even differ from yours.

Though, it would fit if he were making her up altogether as well. But it really doesn’t matter to me. And, in practice it doesn’t really matter either. Without actually trying to get to know the person he thinks he’s dating, he effectively IS making her up, by default of assuming what she thinks and/or feels, rather than asking her. In my experience, that is like 101 of how NOT to date someone, or at the very least, how to ensure a broken heart, but YMMV.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

I know Steele’s a prolific liar and all, but I’m willing to grant he has a girlfriend. Plenty of misogynists have girlfriends, after all. I’m not willing to trust that she just agrees with him about everything, though, especially if he never goes to the trouble of asking her.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Ha, ninja’ed super hard.

Sharculese
9 years ago

Yeah, it’s not that I necessarily think she doesn’t exist by default, I mean, there are a lot of couples out there where I figure they’re BOTH so horrible they deserve each other. And there are couples where one person seems really decent and the other person seems like a shitlord and I can’t figure what the non-shitlord sees in the shitlord, but hey, takes all kinds, yanno? What I AM dubious about are Ella’s opinions. Try talking to her about it. You might be surprised to discover that the two of you do not, in fact, actually share a brain, and she is her own person with her own thoughts and feelings, some of which, (SHOCK!) might even differ from yours.

i basically agree, but on the other hand, mikey has made it clear he handles people disagreeing with him irl about as poorly as he does on here, so this might not be the best path

Dvärghundspossen
9 years ago

To check out how beauty standards fluctuate through the centuries, just go to a museum and check out old oil paintings of famous beauties/goddesses. For instance: Sixteenth century: Fairly slim, A-cups, but a visible belly. Seventeenth century: Fat with lots of cellulites, but still small boobs. That’s a pretty radical change over a hundred years only. Then we have the hourglass ideal, the boyish ideal, the Pamela Andersson ideal etc that’s been fluctuating back and forth during the twentieth century.
Just like somebody else mentioned in this thread one often hears that there’s some waist/hip-ratio that stays constant, but it’s clearly bogus. No way sixteenth century beauties, seventeenth century beauties, Anita Ekberg and Kate Moss were alike on that point.

Amused
9 years ago

Insults like “creepy” and “neckbeard”, while they may sometimes have a basis in actual bad behavior, are more commonly employed as groundless pejoratives.

Compare the costs. If I dismiss a man for being creepy without basis in fact, the worst that can happen is that his feelings will be hurt and his self-esteem will suffer. If I ignore my own sixth sense telling me “this dude is creepy” on the ground that I can’t articulate a factual basis for it, the worst that can happen is that I will end up raped, maimed or dead (or some combination). I’d submit — though I realize some dudely dudes out there disagree — that the latter is much, much worse than the former.

It is not fair when someone gets called a creep for no reason. It’s also not fair that being raped, seriously injured, or even killed is a significant hazard for women who date or even flirt. It’s not fair — though understandable — that women’s parents, relatives, friends and the general public cultivate an intense fear of potential rapists and murderers in women from a very early age, because as much as you complain about “misandry”, you wouldn’t want YOUR daughter getting into a stranger’s car because that’s fucking dangerous. It’s not fair that most rapists walk away unscathed and therefore have opportunities to rape repeatedly. It’s not fair that the onus for preventing crimes like rape, physical abuse and murder is placed on the potential victims, not on the perpetrators. It’s not fair that when a man does something horrible to a woman, the public’s reaction is to bend over backwards trying to find some reason why she “deserved” it.

And for all these reasons, do forgive us for the fact that our potential rapist/attacker/murderer – sensing equipment is extremely sensitive, to the point that it gives us false positives. Sorry, but you are not entitled to a legalistic presumption of innocence in ordinary, every-day interaction. I don’t have to have proof of actual bad behavior in order to decide that this particular person looks like trouble, and I better make sure he stays the hell away from me. To me, “creepy” essentially means there is a possibility this guy has a storage locker somewhere full of mummified body parts. A mere possibility, yes, but it’s enough to convince me to reject any contact. As far as I am concerned, my life and limb aren’t worth risking for the sake of maintaining some stranger’s self-esteem.

ostara321
ostara321
9 years ago

i basically agree, but on the other hand, mikey has made it clear he handles people disagreeing with him irl about as poorly as he does on here, so this might not be the best path

Well, yeah. That’s why I’d also be dubious even if his language indicated he’d bothered to ask her opinion once or twice. If you’re the kind of person who throws a hissy fit whenever someone disagrees with you, it’s no surprise if most people seem to agree with you (at least to your face). But yeah, the fact that he doesn’t even seem to bother asking her makes his claims even more ridiculous.

Not to mention, I wish to hell the “and this lady person agrees!” meme would just die already. If some woman, somewhere thinks your shit idea is just swell, that does not mean all women everywhere agree, or “should” agree or that therefore this “extraordinary woman” is “extraordinary” as demonstrated by her agreement with your shit idea. All it means is that she too, has a shit idea.

On the chocolate with things you don’t think it belongs with (PG version at least) I’ve never had chocolate bacon, but I’ve been curious to try. I enjoy bacon with maple syrup so I imagine it’s about a 50/50 chance I’d like it. I do know that chocolate covered potato chips are AMAZING and you’ll never convince me otherwise 😉

ostara321
ostara321
9 years ago

And for all these reasons, do forgive us for the fact that our potential rapist/attacker/murderer – sensing equipment is extremely sensitive, to the point that it gives us false positives. Sorry, but you are not entitled to a legalistic presumption of innocence in ordinary, every-day interaction. I don’t have to have proof of actual bad behavior in order to decide that this particular person looks like trouble, and I better make sure he stays the hell away from me. To me, “creepy” essentially means there is a possibility this guy has a storage locker somewhere full of mummified body parts. A mere possibility, yes, but it’s enough to convince me to reject any contact. As far as I am concerned, my life and limb aren’t worth risking for the sake of maintaining some stranger’s self-esteem.

Emphasis mine. WELL SAID. Chocolate covered potato chips for you! (if that’s your thing. If not, I’ll happily provide the digital snack of your choosing).

Sgt Grumbles
Sgt Grumbles
9 years ago

This study suggests that intuition is reliable for spotting other kinds of criminals, but not rapists;
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201103/criminals-look-different-noncriminals

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Satoshi Kanezawa makes study, rest of world laughs at him again… XD

Sharculese
9 years ago

speaking of poorly executed studies, has tom martin’s video come out yet?

Sgt Grumbles
Sgt Grumbles
9 years ago

Satoshi Kanazawa didn’t conduct the study.

pillowinhell
9 years ago

Sgt Grumbles, if I recall that article, it does delve into some evolutionary reason that women can’t pick out rapists. Am I correct?

And let’s face it. There are a lot of stereotypes for various criminals (thanks phrenology!) And showing mugshots of convicts, well, those people are already convicted and they have nohing to lose by looking pissed or dropping the mask during the time those photos are taken.

Steele
Steele
9 years ago

Excuse me? It’s nice to see Boobzland’s damn “armchair psychologists” out in full force. I think that the dinner anecdote was, in fact, the only occasion I have openly speculated on Ella’s thoughts. You’re right, I didn’t ask her opinion, but you know, I didn’t talk about it at all with anyone. I do believe that other times I have mentioned her feelings, I have cited the horse’s mouth (ie, Ella’s mouth).

In addition, I refer to Ella frequently because she is my best friend and we spend a lot of time together, not to win any particular sort of “credit’ from Boobzland.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Oh, sorry, you wanted me to be serious about a study of less than 80 psych students. That’s not happening today, I don’t think.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

You’re right, I didn’t ask her opinion, but you know, I didn’t talk about it at all with anyone. I do believe that other times I have mentioned her feelings, I have cited the horse’s mouth.

Well, no, you typically go “I think she thinks…

In addition, I refer to Ella frequently because she is my best friend and we spend a lot of time together, not to win any particular sort of “credit’ from Boobzland.

Sureee.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
9 years ago

I refer to Ella frequently because she is my best friend and we spend a lot of time together, not to win any particular sort of “credit’ from Boobzland

“Frequently”, hah. Funny how you’ve been bugging us for a while, but you’ve only recently started mentioning her.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

When the hell do you spend time with her, Steele? You’re always here bugging the snot out of us.

Steele
Steele
9 years ago

Well, it’s generally not appropriate to be referring to one’s personal life in professional articles on a blog. On the other hand, comments allow for a more casual, “getting-to-know-you” atmosphere. I suppose that’s all I can say.

Irregardless, I can’t hang around here too long. Places to be, people to see.

Anathema
Anathema
9 years ago

Excuse me, Steele, but “irregardless”? Really?

You do realize that it’s not an actual word right? I don’t mean to nitpick, but someone has to counter the MISANDRY!!!11! that kept you from becoming a writer.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

…you can’t be referring to your own terrible, failed blog as ‘professional articles’, can you? XD

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Irregardless… hahaha. The world has truly missed out on a great writer.

Sgt Grumbles
Sgt Grumbles
9 years ago

I’m not saying I believe the study, but my major sticking point is the idea that you can pick out criminals just by appearance, not that rapists would be an exception.

ostara321
ostara321
9 years ago

I’m not saying I believe the study, but my major sticking point is the idea that you can pick out criminals just by appearance, not that rapists would be an exception.

? No one here has said you can.
_

Also, whatever you say, Steele. Have fun with those people and places. I personally cannot stop laughing at the “excuse me?” bits he prefaces just about every other comment with. I just keep wanting to say “you aren’t excused”.

whataboutthemoonz
9 years ago

Excuse me? Did you ever notice how Steele is content to troll here for hours but when someone points it out he suddenly has “places to be”?

Flib
Flib
9 years ago

Varpole accuses others of armchair psychology when he conducts such exercises regularly, news at 11.

pecunium
9 years ago

Oh varpole… Are you starting to dance?

Excuse me? It’s nice to see Boobzland’s damn “armchair psychologists” out in full force. I think that the dinner anecdote was, in fact, the only occasion I have openly speculated on Ella’s thoughts. You’re right, I didn’t ask her opinion, but you know, I didn’t talk about it at all with anyone.

In plain English, you made it up. You wanted to accuse a woman of being mythandrist, and you needed something better than your pathetic, and repetitious, bleating on the subject, so you used Ella.

So noble.

In addition, I refer to Ella frequently because she is my best friend and we spend a lot of time together, not to win any particular sort of “credit’ from Boobzland.

One wonders why this paragon of comradeship and comfort took so long to appear in your discussion; but now makes up so much of it.

A cynical mind might think it was more convenient to have a means of trying to divert charges of misogyny (which seems pretty apparent) by holding up this woman you like so much.

Who happens to share your views, on so many things (so much so that you don’t need to ask her opinion, you can just infer it). It’s nice, for you, that she’s not one of those young women making the “pay gap” you were talking about.

I notice that you don’t think she (as you said of Cliff) ought to be paying for you, since women (as a class) are (so you say) making so much more money than men.

It’s shit like that which makes me think you are dishonest as the winter nights are long: well, that and AMBZ.

whataboutthemoonz
9 years ago

Random linkage; girl pulls car off father: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/48449955/ns/today-good_news/

I’m sure this is somehow misandry, of course.

pillowinhell
9 years ago

Cue the trolls to point out that she wasn’t in physical danger herself, or to poo poo the notion that a woman can be that strong in an emergency situation.

Thing is, women are a lot stronger than they think. We lift and carry sixty pound kids, but often balk at lifting a sixty pound tool bag.

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

And for all these reasons, do forgive us for the fact that our potential rapist/attacker/murderer – sensing equipment is extremely sensitive, to the point that it gives us false positives. Sorry, but you are not entitled to a legalistic presumption of innocence in ordinary, every-day interaction. I don’t have to have proof of actual bad behavior in order to decide that this particular person looks like trouble, and I better make sure he stays the hell away from me. To me, “creepy” essentially means there is a possibility this guy has a storage locker somewhere full of mummified body parts. A mere possibility, yes, but it’s enough to convince me to reject any contact. As far as I am concerned, my life and limb aren’t worth risking for the sake of maintaining some stranger’s self-esteem.

You are not obliged to interact with anyone that you don’t want to. End of Story. And if someone is following you or tries to approach you physically and you find them creepy, you have legit cause to take action to get yourself to safety.

HOWEVER, if someone in a public place who is minding their own beeswax and not interacting with you whatsoever(following is an interaction so that doesn’t apply here) that happens to make you uncomfortable, either deal with your feelings or leave the area! You do NOT have a “right” to get rid of them just because they don’t strike your fancy except on your own personal property. I have personally seen far too many cases of this happening IRL and it’s just not acceptable. The same is true when a new guy gets hired, tries his best to get along, but some sniveling female coworker is uncomfortable around him for something he can’t help so she makes up a story to the boss to get him fired.

I hope you understand. Even if you disagree.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

“Thing is, women are a lot stronger than they think. We lift and carry sixty pound kids, but often balk at lifting a sixty pound tool bag.”

Kids are bit easier, they hold on. Though…I think I’ve carried heavier stage weights than kids (then again, 75+ lb kids can frikken walk, get down!)

BigMomma
BigMomma
9 years ago

The same is true when a new guy gets hired, tries his best to get along, but some sniveling female coworker is uncomfortable around him for something he can’t help so she makes up a story to the boss to get him fired.

cool story

Gametime
Gametime
9 years ago

I do believe that other times I have mentioned her feelings, I have cited the horse’s mouth (ie, Ella’s mouth).

I love that Steele is somehow both a terrible enough writer to hamfistedly cram an inappropriate idiom into a sentence yet self-aware enough to realize that he needs to clarify what his clumsy attempt at metaphor is supposed to mean.

Seranvali
Seranvali
9 years ago

Moonz:

That story was amazing! The combination of adrenaline, love and training is indeed potent.
What a woman!

I’m just waiting now for the MRAs to start minimizing it.

Seranvali
Seranvali
9 years ago

Falconer:

I’m very disappointed. Not with you, of course, but with Alain de Botton. I’ve read some of his stuff and watched some of his TV series and found him moderately helpful and interesting, even when I disagreed with him, but this book seems like ignorant, sexist drivel. First he seems to blame sexual problems on one’s parents and then graduates to blaming women. Impotence being caused by men having to please their partners? Where did that little Just So story come from? And is he suggesting that the fact that rape is considered a crime these days means that men have en-masse become impotent? You’re right, NWO would just love it.

Thankyou for posting the link, though, now I know I should avoid de Botton’s book at all costs!

pecunium
9 years ago

I think I see a little resentment. One wonder if the apparently repetitive nature of it might make the sense that women thinking they are being followed doesn’t have some small basis in fact.

Of course that just might be my confusing a story of Nomless, with a story of Eurosabra’s. Both of whom are PUA defenders. One wonders at the apparent congruity of reaction.

Sharculese
9 years ago

Well, it’s generally not appropriate to be referring to one’s personal life in professional articles on a blog

keeping a blog where you write turgid gibberish about how you hate hate hate another blog isn’t really professional.

or do you mean to tell us someone is paying you for that whiny garbage?

Sharculese
9 years ago

I do believe that other times I have mentioned her feelings, I have cited the horse’s mouth (ie, Ella’s mouth).

write less shitty

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

sharculese: Stop being such a try-hard. And stop projecting it onto others.

While you’re at it, clean the sand out of your mangina. 😉

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

More pointless abuse.

Monsieur, you are quickly becoming bad company.

jumbofish
jumbofish
9 years ago

Irregardless, I can’t hang around here too long. Places to be, people to see.

But Buttpole you do hang around here long, you even made a site dedicated to this site. You can’t trick us silly buttpole.

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
9 years ago

This is for you buttpole:

Sharculese
9 years ago

While you’re at it, clean the sand out of your mangina.

i see weve moved on to the passive aggressive sniveling section of the program

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

I have personally seen far too many cases of this happening IRL and it’s just not acceptable. The same is true when a new guy gets hired, tries his best to get along, but some sniveling female coworker is uncomfortable around him for something he can’t help so she makes up a story to the boss to get him fired.

The problem in that scenario is that the woman is lying to the boss to get someone fired. That doesn’t mean people have to stop using the word creepy though. Creepy is still a good descriptive word for someone or something that makes a person feel uneasy and unsafe.

Also, can you be more specific on “something he can’t help”, because there is a lot of creepy behavior that can be helped. For example, people don’t accidentally make lewd comments to their coworkers.