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More terrible MRA thoughts on Sally Ride

Sally Ride, not thinking about boys.

We’ve already heard from the so-called Thinking Housewife on the subject of Sally Ride. Meanwhile, over on The Spearhead, the regulars also have opinions about Ride. Regular commenter Keyster has this to say about Ride’s work in promoting science and technology education for girls:

She was supposed to have inspired a generation of girls to take science and math. While she may have inspired the “Grrl Esteem” movement, very few girls went on to get degrees in math and science as a result of Sally Ride … .

She was frustrated by the fact young girls were very interested in math and science initially, “…but for some reason we lose them around the age of 13.” MMmmm…I wonder why that would be. Because they discovered an interest in boys? Not surprisingly, Sally was able to keep her interest.

That’s right: girls are incapable of thinking about both math and boys. Lesbians are the only women who can sustain an interest in math, because their brains aren’t cluttered with thoughts of Justin Bieber. (Ok, bad example.)

In another comment, Keyster expresses his annoyance at the fact that Ride turned out to be capable of astronautery despite being a woman.

Sally Ride proved that a woman can have “the right stuff”, like Amelia Earheart proved a woman can fly long distances.

OK so now that we know she won’t become hysterical during her period while in outerspace and allow her used tampons to clog the toilet, what do we do with this information? Just because a woman accomplishes something normally associated with men, is this inspiring young girls to spontaneously excel en masse and compete against men in male dominated arenas? Or are women like Sally Ride the exceptions that prove the rule?

You know, “exceptions that prove the rule” aren’t actually a thing. The fact that Ride was a capable astronaut doesn’t actually “prove the rule” that women aren’t capable as astronauts, but instead suggests that this particular rule is not a real rule. You would think that Keyster, as a logical male, would understand this.

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Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

They’re attacking a recently deceased astronaut?

What, they couldn’t find any orphans with cancer to make fun of?

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

Yes. An exception that proves the rule: “police officers running their lights shall not be bound to the speed limit.” Thus proving the speed limit rule, as the necessity of an exception means it would apply otherwise.

Exceptions to your clever rules about what women can do… don’t prove your rules. They break them. That’s just dumb. Get over it.

(to take David’s wonderfully eloquent and concise explanation and get all technical and stuff)

Further: yeah, she did fail to get women to excel in those spaces YOU CONTINUE TO TRY TO LOCK THEM OUT OF!!!!

Disingenuous jerks.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

Further: yeah, she did fail to get women to excel in those spaces YOU CONTINUE TO TRY TO LOCK THEM OUT OF!!!!

http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/upload/whysofew.pdf

A PDF, sorry.

Of note:

The rapid increase in the number of girls
achieving very high scores on mathematics tests once thought to measure innate ability suggests
that cultural factors are at work. Thirty years ago there were 13 boys for every girl who
scored above 700 on the SAT math exam at age 13; today that ratio has shrunk to about 3:1.

So, you go on and keep telling me how Sally Ride failed. I see nothing but a bright success there, despite your best efforts, guys. It’s not a done deal yet, and there’s work to do, but she damn well started something you can’t stop.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

>Men are incredibly horny and will rape women if provoked with bare flesh, so we must put all rapes (Not that they’re real) on the slutty sluts who provoked men
>But it’s women who can’t maintain thoughts of Math or Science while tempted with boys.

FYI, MRAs, lesbians lust, it’s just after women…

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

Hands up, all people who have both math degrees and at least one relationship!

Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

MMmmm…I wonder why that would be. Because they discovered an interest in boys? Not surprisingly, Sally was able to keep her interest.

He knows that lesbians tend to develop an interest in women around that time, right?

If the argument is that only people without sexual desire can excel at math and science, then the word he’s looking for is “asexual.”

If the argument is that dating men ruins your aptitude for math and science, then we need to explore what the hell men are doing to their dates.

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

FULL DISCLOSURE: English lit degree here.

I can do algebra, and trig, and a bit of calculus, but college-level calc and physics kicked my arse.

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
9 years ago

Never minding that in the phrase “the exception proves the rule,” the word “proves” was traditionally understood in its alternative meaning of “tests” (as in “proving grounds,” where vehicles are tested before being sent to market).

Thus, “the exception proves the rule” doesn’t mean “the exception demonstrates that the rule is sound,” but “the exception tests whether or not the rule is actually a rule.” Which, in that sense, is exactly what Sally Ride did – tested the “rule” that “only men could hack it in space.” And found it was not so.

Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

Howardbann1ster – That’s an MRA no-win scenario. If girls and women aren’t excelling at hard sciences, it proves they’re not capable; if they are excelling at hard sciences, it proves the field is getting watered down and men are being forced out of it.

There’s no scenario in which women are actually contributing to the field because they’re good at it.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

If there’s one idea I could banish from humanity,** it would be “the exception proves the rule.”

No. The exception tests the rule. (IIRC, it’s a bastardized version of something Aristotle wrote about, which is that a stated exception establishes a rule. Don’t quote me on that.)

Long story short, it is a silly mental shortcut and I almost always see it used in the context of discussions* about gender.

* Read: sexist statements.
** Okay, it would actually be the Dorito-shell taco. Ew.

Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.

If you believe aptitude in math and science is a masculine personality trait, then you are technically correct!

YOU WIN THE SEXIST TAUTOLOGY AWARD!!!

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

Something you should know about me: I am a transhumanist. That means that I’m pretty sure the only effective way to make the world a better place is to transcend humanity. That’s why I look up to women who forgo having children and go through life acting as though they were men, but with modern contraceptives they can still sleep with men too. 😉

Sharculese
9 years ago

The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.

for made up values of ‘masculine traits’ that a dumb teenager pulled out his ass

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.

… Or it could be that the most talented people in math and science share some degree of personality traits, and people just call them masculine because of the stereotype that women are Not Deep Thinkers, flighty and unserious.

Also also, there’s the phenomenon of ascribing positively-valued personality traits to men, and negatively-valued personality traits to women.

In other words, get your head out of the math-is-hard-Barbie era.

Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

That’s not the sexiest tautology award, by the way. The sexiest tautology award goes to the sentiment “Baby, I’ll do anything tonight that I do tonight.”

Sharculese
9 years ago

Something you should know about me: I am a transhumanist. That means that I’m pretty sure the only effective way to make the world a better place is to transcend humanity. That’s why I look up to women who forgo having children and go through life acting as though they were men, but with modern contraceptives they can still sleep with men too.

well, it’s good to know you’re not limiting yourself to one flavor of pretentious gibberish

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

Aaaand it’s already been taken care of. I love you guize.

The most talented women in math and science have some degree of ‘masculine’ personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.

FTFY

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

Folks, snopes has an excellent page on ‘the exception proves the rule.’

Here.

Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

That’s why I look up to women who forgo having children and go through life acting as though they were men, but with modern contraceptives they can still sleep with men too.

Actually I’m pretty sure they’re just acting as though they were childless women.

How many women have to act a certain way before it stops being “acting like a man?” Cripes.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Something you should know about me: I am a transhumanist

Of course you are. YEt another tech-based movement that is hilariously sexist: Now with science fiction*.

The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.

Of course, the weak, willowy men who stay inside and excel in math the most also have feminine traits, according to modern day constructions of the word ‘feminine’. I hear they don’t do sports, even! *Eyeroll*

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

Something you should know about me: I am a transhumanist. That means that I’m pretty sure the only effective way to make the world a better place is to transcend humanity. That’s why I look up to women who forgo having children and go through life acting as though they were men, but with modern contraceptives they can still sleep with men too. 😉

Nope, you just want to bang hot lady droids in orbit around the further stars.

You know who else wanted to perfect humanity by cutting away all the human frailties?

Cybermen!

The Borg!

Humans are OK as they are, and you’re not going to solve greed and crime and callous disregard for others by making us all robots.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

Also, yay for transhumanism! Go be something better and stop bothering those of us who actually care to try to change the human race. You don’t get to ascend by trolling message boards.

You can do that after you ascend much more efficiently.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

By the by, some days I have the depressing thought that maybe Om-nom is right, and humanity can’t be changed for the better.

But I’d still rather fight that to the end that give up and just dwell in the darkness, letting it get worse, not even trying to help those stuck in this world with me. You become part of the problem in that formulation.

And even if I can’t make this a better world, I can damn well stop making it a worse world.

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

… Or it could be that the most talented people in math and science share some degree of personality traits, and people just call them masculine because of the stereotype that women are Not Deep Thinkers, flighty and unserious.

Also also, there’s the phenomenon of ascribing positively-valued personality traits to men, and negatively-valued personality traits to women.

Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

‘…still rather fight to the end THAN give in…’

SIGH.

Sharculese
9 years ago

Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

for values of ‘women’ that a dumb teenager pulled out of his ass

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

And men are never fickle. Especially not when young.

Way to directly prove the point, you ass.

Sharculese
9 years ago

nameless baby, we get that you think girls have cooties, so what else are you trying to prove here?

fembot
9 years ago

I hate it when people say “it’s the exception that proves the rule,” and MRAs seem to say it a lot. I’m glad you noticed it too, because it’s the epitome of mental laziness, and every time someone uses it to support their point, I want to scratch my own eyes out.

This evidence supports my argument, so I’m right; this evidents contradicts my evidence, but I’m still right, because it’s the exception that proves the rule.

Oh shut the fuck up! (goes to look at more kitty pictures)

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

By the by, some days I have the depressing thought that maybe Om-nom is right, and humanity can’t be changed for the better.

You’re aware I can vote, right? Really no reason for the worry.

Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

I get the sense that the walking contradiction is a math major trying to make himself look good.

fembot
9 years ago

Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

Fickle is MRA speak for having the audacity to be selective when looking for a partner. Those bitches!

Sharculese
9 years ago

basically when someone says ‘im a transhumanist’ what i hear is ‘i think the matrix was based on a true story’

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

Humans are OK as they are, and you’re not going to solve greed and crime and callous disregard for others by making us all robots.

Sounds like you don’t seem to understand MY view of transhumanism: I’m not in favor of modifying human beings to correct their imperfections, I’m in favor of ultimately replacing humanity with an entirely new species, created by humans, which is even more intelligent and more complex than us.Do tell me how that is *sexist*.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

By the by, some days I have the depressing thought that maybe Om-nom is right, and humanity can’t be changed for the better.

You’re aware I can vote, right? Really no reason for the worry.

😀

WE ARE SAVED!!!

….

Of course, I’ve seen Mitt Romney’s polling numbers. And as long as a non-zero amount of people think that he’s a perfectly okay person to vote for, maybe just not far enough right-wing, I will continue to occasionally think that there is something very wrong with people.

But on good days I remember that it is only because of a massive propaganda machine that he has any chance, and that even a die-hard ideologue fundie can change… and I have hope.

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

basically when someone says ‘im a transhumanist’ what i hear is ‘i think the matrix was based on a true story’

So you admit that you’re a retard and don’t comprehend what “transhumanism” actually is. Got it.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

basically when someone says ‘im a transhumanist’ what i hear is ‘i think the matrix was based on a true story’

That and it’s usually backed up with an allusion to their libertarianism. I also hear, “asshole, do not engage.”

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

Sorry to disappoint you hellkell, but I am not a libertarian.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

Ooo, got linked to a good read on libertarianism.

It’s hip, it’s cool, it’s libertarianism!

Good read.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Om Nom, do you think you’re oh-so-edgy using abelist slurs? Guess again, chump.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

What political affiliation/philosophy does a transhumanist claim, Nommie?

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

But, my dear Om Nom, you ARE an asshole.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Do tell me how that is *sexist*.

‘kay.

That’s why I look up to women who forgo having children and go through life acting as though they were men, but with modern contraceptives they can still sleep with men too. 😉

Reducing women to their ability to birth children

The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.

Defining positive traits as male by default.

Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

Making shit up about women as a whole, then congratulating yourself on how terrible women are.

I don’t really care about the movement as seen in Plato’s Cave, I care about the real world, and these flaws aren’t just found in you. Plenty of sexist idiots parrot similar within transhumanism.

Sharculese
9 years ago

So you admit that you’re a retard and don’t comprehend what “transhumanism” actually is. Got it.

i get that it’s a bunch of self-important pseudo-intellectuals playing robot in their backyards, ya

gelar
gelar
9 years ago

Also also, there’s the phenomenon of ascribing positively-valued personality traits to men, and negatively-valued personality traits to women.

Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
9 years ago

It’s misogynists who get hysterical over menstruation.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

I mean, duh, Nommie. You don’t get to say ‘women are so dumb!’ and then pretend you LIKE women. ‘I mean, that is, this woman is smart! She isn’t like other women! She’s EXCEPTIONAL!’ I.e., an exception to my rule about how women suck.

That’s like textbook misogyny. Like a definition from the dictionary. I mean, honestly, it doesn’t even feel like you’re TRYING.

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).

Oh yeah, well, sure, if you collect poor personality traits together, and positive personality traits together, and assign one set to the dominant gender and the other set to the marginalized gender, you can talk about gender-essentialism all you want to.

But you’ve missed the point that you’ve set these things up this way, and actual people are not actually like the model you’ve got in your head.

You can decide that Lois Lane’s mind is so fragile that, if she believes she’s a witch and yet finds out that she can’t fly or actually do witchety things, she’ll go insane, and so Superman has to feed her delusion*, but if you decide that this entirely odd psychological set up is down to Lane having a vag, you’re being sexist and a right asshole.

*Seriously, this was an actual issue of Superman’s Girlfriend Lois Lane, and not the one where Lois actually becomes a witch (which has to be stopped because she could be better than Supes, and we can’t possibly have that), but I can’t find an image of the cover online in anything like enough time that this comment will still be relevant.

Monsieur sans Nom
Monsieur sans Nom
9 years ago

What political affiliation/philosophy does a transhumanist claim, Nommie?

I don’t associate with other transhumanists, so I wouldn’t know. However, I personally tend to favor authoritarianism since I believe that people in general need to be controlled and when they are free, they used their freedom to be destructive and hurtful to others. I’d like to think of myself as a Stalinist, actually.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
9 years ago

@Dracula: I think when half the commentariat gets to it before you it goes from ‘Ninjaed’ to ‘Smallarmyofninjaed’

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