We’ve already heard from the so-called Thinking Housewife on the subject of Sally Ride. Meanwhile, over on The Spearhead, the regulars also have opinions about Ride. Regular commenter Keyster has this to say about Ride’s work in promoting science and technology education for girls:
She was supposed to have inspired a generation of girls to take science and math. While she may have inspired the “Grrl Esteem” movement, very few girls went on to get degrees in math and science as a result of Sally Ride … .
She was frustrated by the fact young girls were very interested in math and science initially, “…but for some reason we lose them around the age of 13.” MMmmm…I wonder why that would be. Because they discovered an interest in boys? Not surprisingly, Sally was able to keep her interest.
That’s right: girls are incapable of thinking about both math and boys. Lesbians are the only women who can sustain an interest in math, because their brains aren’t cluttered with thoughts of Justin Bieber. (Ok, bad example.)
In another comment, Keyster expresses his annoyance at the fact that Ride turned out to be capable of astronautery despite being a woman.
Sally Ride proved that a woman can have “the right stuff”, like Amelia Earheart proved a woman can fly long distances.
OK so now that we know she won’t become hysterical during her period while in outerspace and allow her used tampons to clog the toilet, what do we do with this information? Just because a woman accomplishes something normally associated with men, is this inspiring young girls to spontaneously excel en masse and compete against men in male dominated arenas? Or are women like Sally Ride the exceptions that prove the rule?
You know, “exceptions that prove the rule” aren’t actually a thing. The fact that Ride was a capable astronaut doesn’t actually “prove the rule” that women aren’t capable as astronauts, but instead suggests that this particular rule is not a real rule. You would think that Keyster, as a logical male, would understand this.
They’re attacking a recently deceased astronaut?
What, they couldn’t find any orphans with cancer to make fun of?
Yes. An exception that proves the rule: “police officers running their lights shall not be bound to the speed limit.” Thus proving the speed limit rule, as the necessity of an exception means it would apply otherwise.
Exceptions to your clever rules about what women can do… don’t prove your rules. They break them. That’s just dumb. Get over it.
(to take David’s wonderfully eloquent and concise explanation and get all technical and stuff)
Further: yeah, she did fail to get women to excel in those spaces YOU CONTINUE TO TRY TO LOCK THEM OUT OF!!!!
Disingenuous jerks.
http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/upload/whysofew.pdf
A PDF, sorry.
Of note:
So, you go on and keep telling me how Sally Ride failed. I see nothing but a bright success there, despite your best efforts, guys. It’s not a done deal yet, and there’s work to do, but she damn well started something you can’t stop.
>Men are incredibly horny and will rape women if provoked with bare flesh, so we must put all rapes (Not that they’re real) on the slutty sluts who provoked men
>But it’s women who can’t maintain thoughts of Math or Science while tempted with boys.
FYI, MRAs, lesbians lust, it’s just after women…
Hands up, all people who have both math degrees and at least one relationship!
He knows that lesbians tend to develop an interest in women around that time, right?
If the argument is that only people without sexual desire can excel at math and science, then the word he’s looking for is “asexual.”
If the argument is that dating men ruins your aptitude for math and science, then we need to explore what the hell men are doing to their dates.
The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.
FULL DISCLOSURE: English lit degree here.
I can do algebra, and trig, and a bit of calculus, but college-level calc and physics kicked my arse.
Never minding that in the phrase “the exception proves the rule,” the word “proves” was traditionally understood in its alternative meaning of “tests” (as in “proving grounds,” where vehicles are tested before being sent to market).
Thus, “the exception proves the rule” doesn’t mean “the exception demonstrates that the rule is sound,” but “the exception tests whether or not the rule is actually a rule.” Which, in that sense, is exactly what Sally Ride did – tested the “rule” that “only men could hack it in space.” And found it was not so.
Howardbann1ster – That’s an MRA no-win scenario. If girls and women aren’t excelling at hard sciences, it proves they’re not capable; if they are excelling at hard sciences, it proves the field is getting watered down and men are being forced out of it.
There’s no scenario in which women are actually contributing to the field because they’re good at it.
If there’s one idea I could banish from humanity,** it would be “the exception proves the rule.”
No. The exception tests the rule. (IIRC, it’s a bastardized version of something Aristotle wrote about, which is that a stated exception establishes a rule. Don’t quote me on that.)
Long story short, it is a silly mental shortcut and I almost always see it used in the context of discussions* about gender.
* Read: sexist statements.
** Okay, it would actually be the Dorito-shell taco. Ew.
If you believe aptitude in math and science is a masculine personality trait, then you are technically correct!
YOU WIN THE SEXIST TAUTOLOGY AWARD!!!
Something you should know about me: I am a transhumanist. That means that I’m pretty sure the only effective way to make the world a better place is to transcend humanity. That’s why I look up to women who forgo having children and go through life acting as though they were men, but with modern contraceptives they can still sleep with men too. 😉
for made up values of ‘masculine traits’ that a dumb teenager pulled out his ass
… Or it could be that the most talented people in math and science share some degree of personality traits, and people just call them masculine because of the stereotype that women are Not Deep Thinkers, flighty and unserious.
Also also, there’s the phenomenon of ascribing positively-valued personality traits to men, and negatively-valued personality traits to women.
In other words, get your head out of the math-is-hard-Barbie era.
That’s not the sexiest tautology award, by the way. The sexiest tautology award goes to the sentiment “Baby, I’ll do anything tonight that I do tonight.”
well, it’s good to know you’re not limiting yourself to one flavor of pretentious gibberish
Aaaand it’s already been taken care of. I love you guize.
FTFY
Folks, snopes has an excellent page on ‘the exception proves the rule.’
Here.
Actually I’m pretty sure they’re just acting as though they were childless women.
How many women have to act a certain way before it stops being “acting like a man?” Cripes.
Of course you are. YEt another tech-based movement that is hilariously sexist: Now with science fiction*.
Of course, the weak, willowy men who stay inside and excel in math the most also have feminine traits, according to modern day constructions of the word ‘feminine’. I hear they don’t do sports, even! *Eyeroll*
Nope, you just want to bang hot lady droids in orbit around the further stars.
You know who else wanted to perfect humanity by cutting away all the human frailties?
Cybermen!
The Borg!
Humans are OK as they are, and you’re not going to solve greed and crime and callous disregard for others by making us all robots.
Also, yay for transhumanism! Go be something better and stop bothering those of us who actually care to try to change the human race. You don’t get to ascend by trolling message boards.
You can do that after you ascend much more efficiently.
By the by, some days I have the depressing thought that maybe Om-nom is right, and humanity can’t be changed for the better.
But I’d still rather fight that to the end that give up and just dwell in the darkness, letting it get worse, not even trying to help those stuck in this world with me. You become part of the problem in that formulation.
And even if I can’t make this a better world, I can damn well stop making it a worse world.
Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).