Oh, you ladies, why do you even bother getting educated – sorry, “educated?” Don’t you know that if you get too educated you might end up marrying some dude who is less educated than you, which is apparently contrary to the laws of nature? Or maybe you’ll end up not getting married at all? The horror.
On The Spearhead, guest poster Lyn87 explains how he dropped some “red pill” knowledge on a buddy of his during a recent outing:
One guy has teenage daughters that he’s planning to put through college. I could not resist inserting some red pill into the mix, so I mentioned that 60% of degrees were going to women, and that women prefer to marry up. Since “educated” women don’t often go for “uneducated” men, a lot of women of his daughter’s generation were on their way toward spinsterhood for lack of “suitable” mates.
So women with education are only “educated” in scare-quotes. But men who are “uneducated” also get the scare quotes, because presumably they are wise beyond their years of formal study.
Alas, Lyn87’s friend wasn’t convinced by this brilliant argument to reconsider his decision to put his daughters through college, which leads Lyn87 to consider the possibility that “that some malevolent group of “Jezebels” is dissolving blue pills into the supply of drinking water.” Lions and tigers and malevolent Jezebels, oh my!
Consider his daughters. I’m sure they are good kids who would make any parent proud. But they don’t live on an island – they live among their peers and within the confines of biological and demographic reality. Even if EVERY one of their male college classmates marries one of his female classmates, a third of those young women will not find a male age-peer who is even her “academic equal,” much less someone with a higher level of education. But not every male graduate will marry a female classmate. Some will marry down. Some will choose not marry at all. Then subtract out the guys who are “creepy,” gay, or otherwise unsuitable, and we are left with a generation of “educated” women who are barreling toward a demographic wall at high velocity.
So women marrying guys with less education, or deciding not to marry at all, is somehow the equivalent of careening into a brick wall at top speed?
Marry up? My buddy’s daughters will be lucky if they can marry “across.” Many women of that generation will face hard choices: supply and demand in the adult world doesn’t much care how “empowered” you were in college. The women of that generation may be able to marry down, but few will want to. They may not marry at all and become wards of the state when they bear bastard children. They may become involuntary childless spinsters. They may go for much older men, but many of them have been through the Family Court meat grinder and must devote much of their effort to paying their exes’ bills.
Or they could end up like a friend of mine, happily unmarried at the age of 40 and dating a dude in his twenties. Or like another friend of mine, also 40, in a happily open marriage with a man a few years her junior and with several regular partners on the side. Or in a committed lesbian relationship.
And why assume that any single woman older than, oh, 25 is “involuntarily childless?” Most of the women I hang out with don’t want kids. They really, really don’t.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Lyn87, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
We know the score here: the degrees these girls are getting cluster in the “Who are you trying to kid?” category. They are not truly superior to the guys of their generation, but that degree in “You Must Be Joking!” makes them think they are. Most emerge from college with a pile of debt, no marketable skills they didn’t already possess in high school, and a few laps around the carousel – older but no wiser, and blissfully unaware that half of their years of prime beauty and fertility are already in the rear-view mirror.
Ugh. This again? At the age of 22 or so, “half of their years of prime beauty and fertility” are gone? Really? Their biological clock starts ticking at the age of, what, 16?
So instead of going to college, girls should be getting hitched before they even graduate from high school, so as to maximize their prime years of beauty and fertility? Sorry to have to break this to you, Lyn87, but that’s a recipe for disaster — even by “traditionalist” standards. According to a 2001 study by the Centers for Disease Control, nearly half of those who marry before they’re 18 divorce within ten years; that’s twice the divorce rate of those who wait until they’re at least 25.
Lyn87, somehow I suspect your buddy with the teenage daughters is doing a better job of looking out for their best interests than you are.
Some, er, “highlights” from the comments.
Kendoka seconds Lyn87’s concerns:
I question the popular wisdom of fathers relinquishing custody and authority over their 18 year old daughters by putting them through an institution designed to indoctrinate and create entitled promiscuous feminist careerist harpies and not loving wives and mothers through marriage.
A Father’s work is not complete until he has guided his daughter directly into marriage with his authority transfered to her husband. “Careers” can wait. Family cannot.
DruidV shares his less-than-fond memories of life in the 1980s, and offers a note of optimism for the future (for dudes anyway):
Way back in prehistoric times, say around 1985, I used to find myself very depressed when I would take note of all the foolish and desperate males I knew, who were jumping through impossible hoops for fickle females that just would let the poor bastards continue to keep right on jumping through those hoops, apparently just for their own entertainment. These twats seemed to take an almost sociopathic delight in this ‘sport’. The males were simply trying to be accepted.
Pathetic, really.Nowadays, I look about and see that young males are sick, tired, disgusted and jaded with these soulless cunts. Make no mistake, the hoops are still there, firmly in place for the males to jump through, but they are seeing less and less traffic every day.
I for one can easily see the females of generation z growing old alone, but for their cats and dying that way too and from what I’ve seen, these bitches can forget about marrying up, or even across anymore. These asshole entitlement whores won’t even be marrying down, in the not too distant future.
YAY!!!
Keyster presents a similarly optimistic scenario for the future — if predicting the apocalypse counts as optimism, which it generally does in MRA circles:
We have a perfect storm brewing of women working, men not, and each one rejecting marriage. In case no one noticed the Feminists started the gender war, and they won. Present day we live with the spiraling consequences; societal decline. Upon the collapse women will be the victims, AGAIN. The survivors will be men with only their own self-interest in mind. The last remnants of white-knightery will struggle to protect and provide, but will be ill-equipped to handle the guilt of failing.
Days of Broken Arrows isn’t quite so dramatic. He merely predicts that the dad planning on sending his girls to college will end up regretting this decision:
[N]ow instead of his daughter someday marrying the guy she met at 18, he’d prefer [her] to be using every orifice when she’s a fucktoy for a line of Alpha males who’ll pump and dump her. And he means that he doesn’t want a son-in-law or grandchildren. Well, I guess that’s all well and good, so long as it’s not “the way it used to be.”
Huh. Do colleges even have classes any more, or is it just one long orgy? How do these Alpha males have any time to study?
I like how “I’m paranoid so I do all these weird things” gets warped into “the world is misandrist so I have to do all these weird things or else FALSE ACCUSATIONS, guys!!!”
Tablacksmith, that was awesome.
Cloudiah, I have to agree with you.
Joe, if you’re so against feminists, why the hell are you here yapping at us to fix your shit?
Feminist politics in school, my ass.
Wow.
This is your idea of a serious problem? How many years have women been neglected/held back/refused education? Just give me a vague historical estimate. Pick your century, any century will do!
@mags – the difference is, those transpeople are not claiming to be the leaders of a political movement (unless they are, I don’t know, I’m guessing) in contrast to RadFems (who dream of world domination – I like to think of them as Pinky and the Brain) and la Greer (definitely a big cheese feminist).
@MollyRen – yes, I was a bit of an asshole about “zie/hir”, you’re right.
@Argenti and I think ?Cliff? and anyone else who identifies as genderqueer – I apologise for being an asshole about that.
Since when are RadFems claiming to be leaders of a political movement?
Joe — apology accepted, though I would like to ask you to do more listening and less insisting you’re right, particularly when it comes to things that don’t affect you personally. (And seriously, please read that forum post I linked to earlier, the things you’re taking issue with are not feminism, they’re the sexism that feminists are fighting back against)
Lyn87 sounds like a proponent of Christian Patriarchy to me, so I searched the Spearhead (EWWWW MY SMARTPHONE WILL NEVER BE CLEAN I NEED INTERNET HISTORY BLEACH AS WELL.AS BRAIN BLEACH NOW) for “Lyn87 Christian” and found that he does describe himself as a Christian Conservative:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/10/05/reader-responses-to-bill-bennetts-man-up-piece/
Being anti-college for women, pro-natalist, and hella racist kinda gave the game away.
Anyway, I wonder how many MRAs are also Christian Patriarchy fans. I wouldn’t think too many, since patriarchalists at least think the man should support his wife and the children God keeps blessing them.with every 18 months or so. Most MRAs seem to favour a one-sided patriarchal bargain: she does the housework and parenting and stays hot, he has no financial or personal obligations at all. Sounds fair, what?
@amandajane5 – we don’t live in the past, we live in the now. You weren’t alive hundreds of years ago (unless you are a magic sparkly vampire (jk)) so that’s just fucking irrelevant. You can’t make life better for the legions of the dead by treating the living badly. Nor can you exercise some form of twisted vengeance on those dead you believe to have been oppressors by victimising innocent boys.
Oh, wait! are YOU a RadFem? Because I’ve read some bloodcurdling shit written by them about boys and what should be “done” about/with them…
Back to reality in the here and now:
Over the last ten years the trend has been boys doing worse and worse in education in both the US and the UK, to the point that all recent educational reform has acheived is to swap around the sexes in terms of acheivement. That’s not equality, and it’s not good for society. It’s a contributing factor to some of the awful shit going on in a lot of US inner cities right now, for a start.
I’m sure you’ll agree that the ideal is to raise all students up, together.
If you doubt my assertions about how boys are doing worse than girls in education, get thee to google and read up on any number of mainstream articles addressing this very issue – there has been much hand-wringing.
@TheFirstJoe You have an absolutely reasonable attitude on the public education system, being a student who was often told was “gifted” before I graduated, I have to say the system felt like being pushed through a factory designed for the lowest common denominator among students. It was anaesthetic, I wasn’t given work that interested me, and many other students were in the exact same position as I was. It definitely needs more specialization, for the benefit of everyone really, not just the gifted students. As it stands the public education system is more of a worker factory than an education system.
Joe, you’re backsliding into being an asshole again. (And you were showing such promise!) Don’t accuse people of being radfems who want to victimize boys unless you have some actual evidence for that allegation. And most importantly, don’t derail.
You’re not building a movement here. You’re just sniping.
@Argenti – I did open that link up as it happens, and I’ll give it a read when I get chance. When I was googling early today I was actually expecting a lot of feminist critique of teh RadFems, but I just kept hitting more and more RadFem blogs, which I was genuinely surprised about, as I was under the impression that dead/elderly 2nd Wavers & radicalhub was basically it, outside of Sweden (where radfem is still a big noise)…
All the studies I’ve read about same-gendered classrooms say the same thing. Girls do much better in a same-gendered classrooms, boys do much worse. See:
http://parentables.howstuffworks.com/family-matters/are-same-sex-classrooms-bad-boys.html
I couldn’t imagine being the father to decide which three of his five daughters were going to be able to go on and have the chance of being able to find a rewarding career with opportunity, and which two were going to have to settle for jobs at a grocery store or walmart until somebody comes around and saves them from the possibility of spinsterhood. And then, with the divorce rate being what it is, which daughter will probably have to re-enter the same customer service rat-race as a single parent while trying to balance being a mother while working a job that all but demands evenings and weekends.
All so that men wouldn’t be threatened by his daughters. How horrible.
In today’s Wedding Tallies we had a bride who was 37 and educated while the groom was 23 and still going to school. MISANDRY!
@aworldanonymous – agree completely.
@cloudiah – Hah! I have no problem with being an asshole towards anyone who regards as “not serious” millions of boys getting a shitty education / failing and often being sucked into horrible life outcomes as a consequence. Or who tries to whitewash that by wanging on about the past.
I try to be an asshole about stuff that needs someone to be an asshole about it.
Sometimes, I’m wrong about stuff (see above), but I’m right about our shitty education system and how it’s failing boys.
So what is the solution-if you take girls out so they can have a good education, the boys suffer. If you leave girls in and at least try to ensure they get a good education, boys suffer. Apparently the only possible solution is to screw over girls getting a decent education by having them in with the boys but not actually have any attention whatsoever paid to them.
Joe, while you’re at it, look at how boys fare by race. White boys are doing well in comparison to white girls.
Society has set numerous hurdles to young black and hispanic boys. The end result is that a young man of color is very, very fortunate to get through highschool, particularly if he’s poor.
I won’t say that the public system can’t tweak things to help boys better, but from what I’ve read, there’s a shit ton of societal changes that need to happen for boys of color to excel in class and get into college.
you understand that by throwing out wild accusations on the internet, you dont actually do anything to help boys, right?
Yeah, so.
Misandry isn’t a thing. Not even if you troll anti-misogynist blogs really, REALLY hard.
if anything you hurt your cause by reinforcing the impression that the mrm is a bunch of attention seeking ninnies running on ginned up outrage
which, to be fair, they are
aworldanonymous — oh gods, I spent so many math classes in the hallway because I was bored senseless and “being disruptive”, and everything you said was spot on.
Joe — part of the lack of obvious push back against the radfems is that some of them get Really Fucking Nasty (check this thread</a< for an example of what I mean). The person being discussed there likes to out trans* people, and I'm not going to name her because she'll show up if I do >.<
Really, read that thread too, that "logic" about trans* people, coming for cis people, is part of why everyone got so upset when you were trying to deny genderqueers/etc the use of zie/zir — you were doing the same thing. (And seriously misusing the term Marxism, but perhaps we'll save that topic for another time)
And I broke the link, go me! At least the link still works, here’s hoping I didn’t break the whole thread, we’ve had enough of that already today.
Joe, if you really want to help boys get a better education, then start organizing against the stop and frisk police level at young men of color as they are traveling to and from school. Start advocating for better allocation of funds to inner city schools which frequently lack textbooks, start advocating for Just Detention so that young boys who are incarcerated can focus on getting their lives together and not on avoiding being raped in custody.
For white boys, perhaps its that now that men aren’t expected and driven to be the sole providers so much, they aren’t being pressured into ambitions they don’t have, or are choosing less lucrative but personally satisfying jobs?
@Angela – as some of the very best private schools over here who consistently get their students into top universities are boys only… I doubt your study is universally valid.
For a start were the teaching styles the same? Did the boys have men teachers (hello, positive male role models) who were inspiring and taught in a way that engaged the boys interest? How about the girls?
I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if the classes were taught in a similar way, nor if the majority of teachers in the boys classes were women.
That’s not to say women cannot teach boys effectively, BUT – a huge part of learning, especially unconcious learning is emulation of example – boys need positive male role models, because boys need to see men in productive and inspiring roles that they can emulate. Just as girls benefit from seeing productive & inspiring women.
Personal development-wise I sucked at team sports, but I got a lot out of outward bound, canoeing, martial arts and swimming as part of my education both inside and outside school – 4 of the 5 teachers who were very strongly influential / inspiring in those positive disciplines were men (and one woman, who taught me who to swim – and yes, she was a great teacher) and I really needed those men as role models, because my father= ragefilled dangerous psycho, from whom I took (almost) completely negative lessons (i.e. What would dad do? Don’t do that then).
Let’s say we did educate separately, and boys were graduating from school on the regular as well educated, well rounded, well balanced young men, going on to productive further / higher ed. and/or work, but girls did EVEN BETTER?? Great. That would be totally fine by me.
As things are we have a load of young lads who leave school and can’t read or write properly.