Oh, you ladies, why do you even bother getting educated – sorry, “educated?” Don’t you know that if you get too educated you might end up marrying some dude who is less educated than you, which is apparently contrary to the laws of nature? Or maybe you’ll end up not getting married at all? The horror.
On The Spearhead, guest poster Lyn87 explains how he dropped some “red pill” knowledge on a buddy of his during a recent outing:
One guy has teenage daughters that he’s planning to put through college. I could not resist inserting some red pill into the mix, so I mentioned that 60% of degrees were going to women, and that women prefer to marry up. Since “educated” women don’t often go for “uneducated” men, a lot of women of his daughter’s generation were on their way toward spinsterhood for lack of “suitable” mates.
So women with education are only “educated” in scare-quotes. But men who are “uneducated” also get the scare quotes, because presumably they are wise beyond their years of formal study.
Alas, Lyn87’s friend wasn’t convinced by this brilliant argument to reconsider his decision to put his daughters through college, which leads Lyn87 to consider the possibility that “that some malevolent group of “Jezebels” is dissolving blue pills into the supply of drinking water.” Lions and tigers and malevolent Jezebels, oh my!
Consider his daughters. I’m sure they are good kids who would make any parent proud. But they don’t live on an island – they live among their peers and within the confines of biological and demographic reality. Even if EVERY one of their male college classmates marries one of his female classmates, a third of those young women will not find a male age-peer who is even her “academic equal,” much less someone with a higher level of education. But not every male graduate will marry a female classmate. Some will marry down. Some will choose not marry at all. Then subtract out the guys who are “creepy,” gay, or otherwise unsuitable, and we are left with a generation of “educated” women who are barreling toward a demographic wall at high velocity.
So women marrying guys with less education, or deciding not to marry at all, is somehow the equivalent of careening into a brick wall at top speed?
Marry up? My buddy’s daughters will be lucky if they can marry “across.” Many women of that generation will face hard choices: supply and demand in the adult world doesn’t much care how “empowered” you were in college. The women of that generation may be able to marry down, but few will want to. They may not marry at all and become wards of the state when they bear bastard children. They may become involuntary childless spinsters. They may go for much older men, but many of them have been through the Family Court meat grinder and must devote much of their effort to paying their exes’ bills.
Or they could end up like a friend of mine, happily unmarried at the age of 40 and dating a dude in his twenties. Or like another friend of mine, also 40, in a happily open marriage with a man a few years her junior and with several regular partners on the side. Or in a committed lesbian relationship.
And why assume that any single woman older than, oh, 25 is “involuntarily childless?” Most of the women I hang out with don’t want kids. They really, really don’t.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Lyn87, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
We know the score here: the degrees these girls are getting cluster in the “Who are you trying to kid?” category. They are not truly superior to the guys of their generation, but that degree in “You Must Be Joking!” makes them think they are. Most emerge from college with a pile of debt, no marketable skills they didn’t already possess in high school, and a few laps around the carousel – older but no wiser, and blissfully unaware that half of their years of prime beauty and fertility are already in the rear-view mirror.
Ugh. This again? At the age of 22 or so, “half of their years of prime beauty and fertility” are gone? Really? Their biological clock starts ticking at the age of, what, 16?
So instead of going to college, girls should be getting hitched before they even graduate from high school, so as to maximize their prime years of beauty and fertility? Sorry to have to break this to you, Lyn87, but that’s a recipe for disaster — even by “traditionalist” standards. According to a 2001 study by the Centers for Disease Control, nearly half of those who marry before they’re 18 divorce within ten years; that’s twice the divorce rate of those who wait until they’re at least 25.
Lyn87, somehow I suspect your buddy with the teenage daughters is doing a better job of looking out for their best interests than you are.
Some, er, “highlights” from the comments.
Kendoka seconds Lyn87’s concerns:
I question the popular wisdom of fathers relinquishing custody and authority over their 18 year old daughters by putting them through an institution designed to indoctrinate and create entitled promiscuous feminist careerist harpies and not loving wives and mothers through marriage.
A Father’s work is not complete until he has guided his daughter directly into marriage with his authority transfered to her husband. “Careers” can wait. Family cannot.
DruidV shares his less-than-fond memories of life in the 1980s, and offers a note of optimism for the future (for dudes anyway):
Way back in prehistoric times, say around 1985, I used to find myself very depressed when I would take note of all the foolish and desperate males I knew, who were jumping through impossible hoops for fickle females that just would let the poor bastards continue to keep right on jumping through those hoops, apparently just for their own entertainment. These twats seemed to take an almost sociopathic delight in this ‘sport’. The males were simply trying to be accepted.
Pathetic, really.Nowadays, I look about and see that young males are sick, tired, disgusted and jaded with these soulless cunts. Make no mistake, the hoops are still there, firmly in place for the males to jump through, but they are seeing less and less traffic every day.
I for one can easily see the females of generation z growing old alone, but for their cats and dying that way too and from what I’ve seen, these bitches can forget about marrying up, or even across anymore. These asshole entitlement whores won’t even be marrying down, in the not too distant future.
YAY!!!
Keyster presents a similarly optimistic scenario for the future — if predicting the apocalypse counts as optimism, which it generally does in MRA circles:
We have a perfect storm brewing of women working, men not, and each one rejecting marriage. In case no one noticed the Feminists started the gender war, and they won. Present day we live with the spiraling consequences; societal decline. Upon the collapse women will be the victims, AGAIN. The survivors will be men with only their own self-interest in mind. The last remnants of white-knightery will struggle to protect and provide, but will be ill-equipped to handle the guilt of failing.
Days of Broken Arrows isn’t quite so dramatic. He merely predicts that the dad planning on sending his girls to college will end up regretting this decision:
[N]ow instead of his daughter someday marrying the guy she met at 18, he’d prefer [her] to be using every orifice when she’s a fucktoy for a line of Alpha males who’ll pump and dump her. And he means that he doesn’t want a son-in-law or grandchildren. Well, I guess that’s all well and good, so long as it’s not “the way it used to be.”
Huh. Do colleges even have classes any more, or is it just one long orgy? How do these Alpha males have any time to study?
Perhaps her gravatar will jog your memory?
http://en.gravatar.com/thebewilderness
I have a strongly visual memory, so I recognised that, before I spotted her reference to manboobz. I’ve seen her posts here plenty.
Joe, you’re being extremely stupid today. I explain why 1 page back.
@Leum, sorry! Poorly phrased. What I *meant* to say was why don’t MRAs just buy a RealDoll!
Ooh, ooh, Joe called us out on our hypocrisy! Nice catch bubba.
Criminy! Have I scored a stalker, or did Joe just figure out how to google?
Joe, I have no control over what sites link to MB, and if someone links MB it doesn’t mean that I or the regulars here endorse the site that’s doing the linking.
The White Rights subreddit used to (and may still) links to r/mensrights. That doesn’t mean that r/mensrights regulars are all a bunch of white supremacists.
Anyone else get this sense this isn’t about those awful wimminz with their Education! but MRAs scared shitless the pool of ignorant dependent ‘females’ is drying up and now they might have to actually, I dunno, attract a woman instead of buying her from daddy with a wage-month ring?
Oh, and cock carousel. Just because I like saying cock carousel.
I wonder how surprised MRAs who believe this would be if they learned someone like, oh, say, Rear Admiral Grace Hopper…
…was a *woman*!
Oh fuck David, you better fire Bewilderness as your official spokesperson post haste!
“The Bewilderness is a frequent manboobzer – she has the gravatar with the CatShark thing, so youARE associated with her in that you both post here regularly and you share a political movement i.e. feminism.”
You know, you could try making this difficult. Today on Spot That Fallacy!! we have…
Association fallacy (guilt by association) – arguing that because two things share a property they are the same
You also get points for —
Fallacy of division – assuming that something true of a thing must also be true of all or some of its parts
Since you seem unable to play Spot That Fallacy!! let me make this clear — what any commenter here may say on other sites really has no fucking bearing on feminism as a whole (that’s just fucking cute, at least when it was Steinem there were pretty good odds most feminists had heard of her, you think The Bewilderness has widespread fame or something?)
posting long, breathless rants about fairly reasonable definitions of domestic violence really doesnt make you a hate group.
it does suggest that you’re at the least unconcerned with, and at worst in favor of, domestic violence, but that’s not the same thing.
@indifferentsky – you’re aware of the disgusting aspiring misandrist gendercides and transphobes at http://radicalhub.com/ I’m sure. This is frequently poo-poohed by manboobzers as being so isaolated and a fringe etc. etc.
Yet, we not only have cherryblossomlife but also, http://davinasquirrel.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/radfem2012-and-the-right-of-freedom-of-association/ holding forth with more of the same.
Not to mention of course, the famously transphobic Germaine Greer (maybe you have heard of her? She’s had some influence on your movement.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Greer#Later_career
“In 1989, Greer was appointed as a special lecturer and fellow at Newnham College, Cambridge. Greer unsuccessfully opposed the election to a fellowship of her transsexual colleague Rachael Padman. Greer argued that Padman had been born male, and therefore should not be admitted to Newnham, a women’s college. Greer resigned in 1996 after the case attracted negative publicity.”
Here’s Greer slagging off transwomen as delusional in the Grauniard:
“Nowadays we are all likely to meet people who think they are women, have women’s names, and feminine clothes and lots of eyeshadow, who seem to us to be some kind of ghastly parody, though it isn’t polite to say so. We pretend that all the people passing for female really are. Other delusions may be challenged, but not a man’s delusion that he is female.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/aug/20/germaine-greer-caster-semenya
Looks like transphobia is a pretty big part of feminism to me.
do you give everyone you post with a comprehensive list of all the other sites you post on, just so you can double check? where are you getting this dumb bedwetting nonsense from.
I have never understood the hand wringing about what “other women” should do. If you want to get married, great! If you want to have kids young, sure! But why does it seem like the large majority of these people are far more obsessed what random unrelated women are making as choices than their own life trajectory? I mean, I am 27 now, been married for almost 7 years, have one child and am gestating my second… You would think that I was the traditionalist wet dream. Except I am also atheist, college educated, work full time (our daughter has avoided daycare because my husband and I work opposite shifts) and pansexual even though I am monogamous. I made my choices. I have a lot of respect for my childfree friends and family- their choice not mine. I guess that I cannot wrap my head around people who honestly think that life is like the board game of the same name- you graduate college and are forced to make X amount of money your whole life, you HAVE to get married, and your number of kids is based on a dice roll. It makes no sense.
‘misandry’, when no structure disadvantages men. Yawners. Dude, get a hobby, rather than panicking over every little thing.
It’s a big part of society, period. Do you really think you’re going to score points this way? XD
yo, y’know who’s almost as shitty as transphobic radfems? (who are extremely shitty people) the mras who cynically treat trans* people as a prop in their feud against feminism, but don’t actually give a fuck about them
Nice that you’re ignoring all the feminists who’re internally fighting against the bad elements of feminism (including, but not limited to, transphobia), and working to improve it.
meh, i dont really sweat it, considering that their number arent actually that impressive. as has been pointed out before, cliff’s blog gets more traffic than a voice for men, zie just doesnt make the same stink about it.
So I guess my parents don’t exist either. My mom was in grad school when she met my dad. Who was not in grad school. Technically they both just have BAs, since she never finished her MA on account of getting married. I guess that makes it all okay.
She’s also older than he is (by a few months).
I’m about five classes away from getting my second BA. So if I were to marry someone with an MA, who would be more educated? With two degrees in two subjects I would have more breadth of knowledge, but s/he would have more depth in one field. Technically that means I know more about more shit. But since a second BA only takes a couple of years–just like an MA–it’s about the same amount of time spent in school. WHO WINS?? SOMEONE MUST BE THE WINNER!!
This reminds me of something I learned about women and education in Japan. There’s still a trend toward going to school for your MRS (for lots and lots of reasons), and while families do prefer sending a boy to college over a girl if they have to make that choice, there’s still an idea among traditional folk that women should get a college education. Why? Because how else will she get your kids through “exam hell” if she isn’t educated at all?
It’s still sexism, but at least it recognizes the importance of education. Sort of. It isn’t the college (four years of drinking and job interviews, unless you go into a “hard” field) that’s important so much as the process of getting there. STILL. How are you going to whip little Takeichi into shape if you haven’t been put through the wringer yourself? It’s not like Dad’s ever going to see him EVERRR, so that all falls on Mom’s shoulders.
I’ve heard some variations on this over here–“I want my wife to be smart so we’ll have smart kids!” or something. But it doesn’t quite exist in the same form or to the same degree. And with MRAs, apparently not at all. (What if she has an MA in home ec?)
@TheBewilderness – neither. I was reading up on the bullshit flying around from RadFems defending their exclusion of transwomen from their 2012 conference – and there you were, right in the comments. As I say, I have a visual memory and you picked a super-memorable avatar. So, what is your stance on transphobic misandrist RadFeminism??
@Futrelle – your entire site is based on the premise that: “any yahoo who comments on an MRA site is a representative sample of the “men’s movement” by association, and thus their comment ‘boobery’ may be employed to attack that movement, (through mockery)”
One of your manboobzers (by association through comments) posted approvingly / agreeing on a transphobic, misandrist blog, using your site as “backup” for her point. How do you feel about having your site associated with such hatred?
Yeah, current mainstream feminist organizations are so transphobic that they provide no resources or support for trans people.
(Seriously, I am sure NOW is not the organization that is best on this stuff, but they’re a little more representative of mainstream feminism than some random blogs Joe stumbles onto while stalking Man Boobz commenters on the Internet.)
Farked up that link: http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/resources.html
“Looks like transphobia is a pretty big part of feminism to me.”
And on this round of Spot That Fallacy!! we have…
Fallacy of composition – assuming that something true of part of a whole must also be true of the whole
And a correction *gasp*! That’s what I meant on the last round, not fallacy of division, I’ll learn to keep those two in order sooner or later!
Joe, there’s a reason we give new trolls the benefit of the doubt and keep asking where the moderate MRAs are (hint, it has something to do with the above fallacy, and the assumption that there must be moderate MRAs somewhere — whereas moderate feminists are quite easy to find)
Hahahahaha! I have an MA AND a husband and children! And a new kitten!
Or just what the goals of the MRM actually are. Getting the right to vote? Own property in your own name? Control your own bodily autonomy?