Over on AskReddit, someone called 478nist has asked a question that has been puzzling a lot of us for some time: “Why is Reddit so anti-women? (outside of r/gonewild anyway).”
I used to think it was just because the large majority of users are men, but it’s not pro-men it’s becoming more and more anti-women.
Outside of the friendzoned crap, any comment that leans towards any kind of talk of womens issues, equal rights etc gets downvoted to hell so it’s not even capable of being discussed. It seems like it’s an US vs THEM mentality more and more. Was it always like this?
The thread that followed is nearly 2000 comments long, so far, and has gotten written up on TheAtlanticWire. The discussion is surprisingly … good? Not perfect — after all, this is Reddit we’re talking about here — but not terrible.
So naturally our friends in the Men’s Rights subreddit are complaining about it.
The legendary AnthonyZarat offers this thought:
MauraLoona, meanwhile, challenges the premise of 478nist’s question, and thereby challenges reality itself:
Legitimateusername also has a problem with Reddit’s alleged surplus of manginas.
Fuckrpolitics_again just goes with some plain old-fashioned misogyny:
The Men’s Rights subreddit, such a reliable generator of self-righteous poop.
As I’ve said many times before, my wife asked me out on our first date and paid for dinner and a movie. This reversal of traditional roles had nothing to do with the MRM and everything to do with feminism.
Mikey, (a) I’m not sure you understand what the word “demand” means, and (2) don’t you think this vile misandry deserves a blog post?
Okay, this doesn’t even make sense as scare quotes, so I guess I have my answer. Steele just has no idea what quotation marks are for.
Also, Steele, you know that “I’m okay with x” isn’t generally understood to be identical to “I demand that x,” right? Like, I get that you’re pretty shitty with nuance and meaning and words in general, but this is basic stuff.
Don’t know if he’ll have time for that, what with that big project he has going on at work, and all.
By the way, Ella makes about as much as me. We don’t really get into it, because I agree, in and of itself it’s not that much money. And if she was poor, I might be paying more often; and vice versa. But that would be our choice based on the individual situation. And it has nothing to do with gender. Rank, disgusting feminists.
Maybe he could have “Ella” take over some of his blog “commenting” duties. I mean, she’s hardly pulling her weight here, even if she does go “dutch” at mealtime…
You know you don’t have to date someone, right? I mean, the “walking out mid-date” thing is just something you made up to make yourself sound like a Big Man Who Doesn’t Take No Guff, but you can totally decide not to go on a second date.
What you can’t do is decide to go on a second date where you make all the decisions.
This hyper-libertarian shit, this thing where you can’t tell the difference between a gift to someone you like and a robbery extracted at gunpoint because either way I lose my hard-earned money–it gets so fucking old. I bought my boyfriend a $40 birthday present and he bought me a $25 one, and you know what? I didn’t scream “THAT’S MY FIFTEEN DOLLARS YOU BASTARD FIFTEEN DOLLARS OF THE SWEAT OF MY BROW” in his face. Because I like him and chose to date him.
You wanna play libertarian? Okay. People are free to charge whatever they want for the pleasure of their company, and you are equally free not to pay that price.
Why is “boyfriend” in quotes? Is it, like, two feminists dating doesn’t really count?
Anyway he makes twenty thousand dollars more than me. Whether there’s a statistical wage gap is beside the point.
And anyway I trade off paying with him! I shouldn’t have to but I do anyway because it’s a relatively small expense and I’d rather feel like I’m contributing than have things be perfectly fair to me. But that’s my own personal decision, and not one I should be forced to make.
My comment on the Crunktastic post we were discussing last night: And here’s where Joe and Steele and NWO may suffer head explosions: I actually do not think that Crunktastic saying what she does is in any way equal to being like a man who does not want to take a woman’s no for an answer–because DUDEZ there is no frakking documented history of Black women raping Black men (or White men) (or any other men) (and the actual statistics on women raping men–which does happen–is pretty damn low), so the CONTEXT for her unhappiness with being told no and exploring what to do in response to it (NOTICE NOWHERE DOES SHE SAY SHE GETS TO FORCE THEM! Which a whole shitload of PUA and MRA’s say outright at times) is completely different from what a man would do..
Can I call it, or can I call it! Steele responded predictably!
Steele:
AHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the belly laugh at breakfast, SteeleTroll. Now I’m back from grocery shopping (amazingly enough NO MAN subsidized my FEMALE PARTNER’s and my groceries for the week–and has never done so, unless you could our fathers, you know, working to support the family–and in her case, her mother worked too).
And I haven’t danced with a troll for a while–so putting off working on fall class stuff, and revving up Cyndi Lauper’s “Girls Just Wanta Have Fun” for teh dance music, let’s mazurka, shall we, dahling troll?
you are a vile, revolting misandrist-feminist who elevates women above men,/em>
Hmm, there are very few buildings where I live with elevators–and those all on campus.
But yep–in my personal life, I prefer spending time with women over spending time with men (although there are individual exceptions in each case). In my fandom life, I prefer spending time in women dominated fan spaces, rather than the ones in which men are the majority group. I’d rather live with women than with men–and as someone who is ever single and spent a lot of time up until 15 years ago in boarding houses and dorms and shared apartments, with both men and women, that’s based on my experience. This wasn’t true back in my youth/twenties–then, I elevated men over women. I guess…it’s about half/half now, since I’m in my late fifties.
denies men’s issues,
I completely and totally deny that there is systemic oppression and marginalization of white, straight, cis, middle-class men.
I completely and totally agree that the racism of the kyriarchy oppresses men (and WOMEN and non-binary gender people) of color; that the capitalist economic system oppresses a huge percentage of men and WOMEN and people who do not have binary gender identification and who are not in the 1% or even the 10% (in the US, all this is in the US btw; that the homophobia of the kyriarchy oppresses men (AND WOMEN) and non-binary gender/genderqueer people who identify as having minority/alternative sexualities, and, finally, the men (and WOMEN and people who are of non-binary gender) who have disabilities are also oppressed as a class (WITH the caveat that within the classes constructed around race, class, sexuality, ability status, there are differences in how men and women and people who do not identify on the binary gender spectrum are treated-INTERSECTIONALITY, DUDE).
denies misandry, disparages men’s issues,
You’re repeating yourself DUDE–see above. How are these two points different from what you already stated.
thinks men are “worth less” than women,
Not sure about this–what do you mean by “worth less”?
thinks women’s wrongdoing is “less bad” than men’s,
Nope–not less bad. Just less OFTEN.
excuses female rape fantasies as “less bad” and “understandable”,
Where the fucking hell did this come from? Are you claiming that what Crunktastic wrote about is a RAPE FANTASY?
*collapses in laughter*
and despite all this, expects men to subsidize women’s food intake, as recently revealed in a Boobz Forum thread.
I didn’t participate in that thread=but it’s clear from what others have said that you totally misread the statement.
Plus, during the period when I was having sex with men (let’s see that was 1974-1982), there was exactly two times when I had “dates”–mostly because we all hung out in groups, pooled our money, got drunk, and then had drunken sex without contraception which was so stupid I find it hard to believe). ONE time. That was for a movie. And I’d been sleeping with him for about a year (so had two others of my friends–and the hilarious thing is he blamed US for flunking out that semester, ahahahahah).
But yes, I do think that if one person in a relationship of whatever sort is making a shitload more than the other, it’s appropriate for that WOMAN or MAN to pay a greater percentage of expenses (and the thing that frosts my cupcakes, though I don’t have children, is when the WOMAN is expected to pay 100% for childcare out of her paycheck, and bozo Dad doesn’t, because, shit, that’s her job, rite? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR). (I also verbally smack down any man who says he’s babysitting his children.)
Here’s another thing to blow your mind: my partner and I have made fairly equal paychecks for most of our 15 or 16 years together. She’s now going to a 12 month administrative contract (by fiat of the president of university), and so will earn 33% MORE than I do (since I’m on a nine month contract as faulty member). We each have a bank account, and a joint account for the house. We each pay, roughly, the same. But when this changes, in a month or two, we will sit down and (AS SHE NOTED WE SHOULD) refigure who is contributing what so that it is mostly EQUAL.
Equal does not mean the same, ninny hammer: in the financial issues, it should be equal percentage, not equal amounts.
So, yes, MUCH of what you say about me is true, sort of.
But since I don’t accept the concept of misandry, and since men like you calling me things like “vile” or “bitch” etc. simply makes me beam with pride, and snicker, there is not a single flying fuck I give about your opinion of me.
And since I had people (MEN AND WOMEN) telling me I could not do X, or women could not do X, since I was a kid, all the way up to the present, and my only response has been to say, “oh, yeah, says you–I’ll show you by doing it twice as good” and then doing it, my opinion of you, besides you being a pompous, disingenuous, lying, blowhard is that you’re a bloody spineless git who expected to be handed everything on a silver platter just for having the genitals you have.
mikey you’re now officially arguing with a version of cliff that you made up in your head
get a grip dude
also
please keep this weird, unwieldy insult in your regular rotation. i giggle every time i see it.
Excuse me?
But that’s my own personal decision, and not one I should be forced to make.
Of course it is. You don’t get to dictate that your partner subsidize you. You can either offer to pay, or split the bill. Those are your choices. You can also hope that your date will offer, I suppose, but this is not something you get to expect or demand.
Seems to me that it’s you who wants to make all the decisions. Nothing but an M-feminist.
Nope, third choice: I can not date you.
I can’t say “Mr. Varpole, you must pay for my dinner,” but I can say “whoever dates me must pay for my dinner.” I may or may not get dates that way, but that’s my problem, and you don’t get to rage out if I do get dates after all.
Hey all: I’ve decided I’m an M&M feminist!
*munches happily down on M&Mx*
Saw a great plaque today while grocery shopping: “I’d give up chocolate, but I’m not QUITTER.”
SING IT!
I paid my share, snorted contemptuously, and left
Did you say “Well EX-SCUUUUUUSE ME!”?
Also keep that “excuse me?” in your repertoire, Butthorn. It’s a hoot.
besides you being a pompous, disingenuous, lying, blowhard is that you’re a bloody spineless git who expected to be handed everything on a silver platter just for having the genitals you have.
Slanderous, vile individual. I am a successful urban professional, I make a considerable sum, I am in a happy relationship, and I haven’t once taken any handout from anyone.
Vile slanderer. Nothing but evil. Evil. Disgusting, vile hypocrite.
like what would a ‘jester’s fool’ even be anyway. like the jester who’s so ridiculous that all the other jester’s laugh at him… so like, a really really good jester. can someone help me on this one?
I can say “whoever dates me must pay for my dinner.”
Fine. It’s also my right to walk right the heck out, and I think many would agree that I made the right choice.
yes you have Steele. If from no one else, then from your parents who paid for your upbringing. Unless you wish us to believe that you were out farming for your food at the age of 1 day?
You’re just mad that Ithiliana has a better vocabulary and knows how to use it, Mikey.
the workings of calm, rational mind folks
…And honestly, in real life this shit usually isn’t so fraught because we’re talking about miniscule amounts of money and food, spent on someone you theoretically like. It usually doesn’t come down to a furious glaring contest full of pseudo-libertarian maneuvering. It’s just like “hey, I like you, I’ll get this.”
(To be honest I think it’s a little gauche for a woman to demand a man pay, especially if she didn’t bring it up beforehand and especially if she asked him out and/or chose the place. But that’s a politeness judgement, not a political or ethical one. I also don’t think it happens that often; I think the more common scenario is that the man offers to pay and the woman accepts.)
Oh and I forget, you also got a handout from your mom because she had to carry your lazy ass for nine months.
and then of course rage about it for days afterwards
Steele came out of the womb and immediately offered to pay half of the hospital costs!
Walking out mid-date is douchey and also it’s just your stupid power fantasy. Don’t forget the part where the whole restaurant erupted into cheers and then your date fell into a fruit cart wearing a white dress.
However, yes, you are free to never take a second date with someone who expects you to pay for everything! That’s an option you have! No one would begrudge you it!
(Since actually liking your dates clearly wasn’t a concern in the first place, it’s not like you’re missing out on that much.)