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JohnTheOther: the Aurora heroes aren’t heroes. KEYWORDS: calculus of death, vagina, drug addled slut

Children: Not worth saving, apparently.

JohnTheOther, blabby videoblogger and Number Two at A Voice for Men, has now weighed in with his own, slightly tardy, manifesto on the Aurora shooting and the evils of supposed male “disposability.” I didn’t read the whole thing – seriously, dude, OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS – but a few things stood out when I skimmed it. For example, this lovely passage, which seems to be a longer and fouler version of that ill-advised tweet from the Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto that I mentioned in my last post.

Our mainstream, which is to say, our corporate media – that which bends and fawns for access to the corrupt elected officials and modern robber barons of corporate statehood – is telling you, young man, that in order to be worthwhile, a real man, you’d better be prepared to die without complaint for the child, or the little old lady, or the drug addled slut in the next seat.

But Mr. TheOther is having none of it:

The instinct – expressing itself variously as chivalry or as fatal self sacrifice — is just one more that no longer has any discernable benefit. It is an encumbrance to any real pursuit of a civilized society in which one class of humans is not legally and socially elevated over another.

Sorry, kids; sorry, old ladies; sorry “drug addled sluts” — you’re on your own. Apparently, in a truly civilized society, no one ever looks out for anyone else. Altruism is for barbarians and Bill Bennett!

Here’s JtO’s stirring conclusion:

Those three men are not heroes, they’re just dead. The calculus of death, where one life is traded in celebration for another by preference of a vagina, is pathological and regressive. It must be recognized as the sickness it is. Those who lionized these men, whose fatal and unexamined instinct led to self-destruction; those who held them up as a heroic example to follow, are cordially invited to go first — or to go fuck themselves.

Charming as always, Mr. TheOther.

In the discussion of Mr. TheOther’s post in the Men’s Rights Subreddit, AVFM’s Paul Elam expands on the whole they aren’t heroes” theme, arguing that we need to retroactively strip away the hero status of the three men who died protecting their girlfriends — because they died protecting women.

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jumbofisch
12 years ago

Anyway, at no point did I mention my own views on whether disabled people are actually more “valuable” than abled ones.

ya you did

but why sacrifice oneself under such circumstances? Grandma might drop dead of a heart attack next week. People who are disabled enough that it interferes with their chance of escaping generally don’t contribute as much to society

. But I strongly suspect that on the *average*, people who are disabled don’t contribute as much as other people.

That is pretty clearing stating they are not as valuable as able bodied people.

Apparently people seem to think that “not more” automatically means “less”. In this case the neutral applies; my actual view is “don’t know, don’t care right now, so not gonna assume anything but say ‘equal’ by default if I absolutely have to assume something.”

No, we all can read you clearly stated that they contribute less and are less valuable to society.

Unless the problem here is that assuming that on the average they contribute less is the issue only because I’m a bad person for thinking that it’s true *even if* it turns out that it’s true.

Contributing to society is not job or how much you can work based. Sound similar to the age old theory women don’t work, when housework and child rearing is a job of itself. You know what that is? Basing whats important through the eyes of the privileged which is pretty fucking privileged itself.

jumbofisch
12 years ago

I’m insensitive to everyone equally

you just happen to have a bias against certain groups though….

Yeah no the “I am like that to everyone!!” crap is so overused and you know its shit when its constantly used at queer people, women, the disabled, poc, ect while barely a word is mentioned against white straight able bodied dudes.

sthlivingincolor
12 years ago

I dunno, you might want to consider the Plague before you calculate the worth of cats.

jumbofisch
12 years ago

If white straight able dudes are made fun of it’s for having personality flaws or political views. (As oppose to cultural stereotyping or making fun of them for simply being white,straight, male and able bodied.)

pecunium
pecunium
12 years ago

sthlivingincolor: I dunno, you might want to consider the Plague before you calculate the worth of cats.

What… they killed rats, so the fleas left them and attacked people?

The cats weren’t eating fleas, and Europe didn’t recover it’s pre-1350 population until 1900, just in time for WW1.

teirisias
teirisias
12 years ago

Slavey got stickruled the fuck off of Pandagon after Amanda and Jesse moved to RawStory. It was fun.

Pam
Pam
12 years ago

@sunshinemary

Do yourself a favor and leave this place and never come back. This is hell. These people promote every form of sexual debauchery. They hate morality. They hate the patriarchal family. They hate Christianity. They hate masculinity. They hate even the idea of God. They worship their own greatness.

If you look at the bible, the first sin was the temptation of the forbidden apple. The serpent promised the woman she’d have ultimate knowledge and become a god herself. Everyone here practices that same sin. They believe themselves to have ultimate knowledge and have proclaimed themselves as gods of their own morality. The everyone decides what’s best for themselves is exactly that.

Leave this place and never come back.

Such melodrama!! Thanks for the aching bellylaugh! And now that I can breathe again……

If this place is such hell, why don’t you take your own damn advice, leave this place and never come back!!

speedlines
speedlines
12 years ago

If this place is such hell, why don’t you take your own damn advice, leave this place and never come back!!

Because he’s lying in a pool of blood, mortally wounded and it’s too late for him BUT YOU CAN STILL SAVE YOURSELF! Run while there’s still time!!!!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

Although Slavey’s desire to save Mary from this evil place is touching, I’m a bit confused, since in general he thinks chivalry is terrible.

Kyso K.
12 years ago

Also, I believe that most “crap jobs” offer no actual benefit to society, neither socially nor economically;

Really? No one needs to sell things? No one needs to ship them? No one needs to cleam up the mess which gets made? No one needs to weed the crops? No one needs to pick them?

That stuff will just magically happen and everyone will be satisfied?

You are stupid.

Thank you.

Here in Japan, you’ll often see people in what looks like, to Western eyes, comically pointless jobs. I met a guy who just boggled over how many safety people were directing pedestrian and bicycle traffic around even the smallest construction sites. It seemed laughably unnecessary in such an orderly place – until he encountered a site that was only half-staffed. Turns out, if it looks like everything is running well on it’s own, it’s because someone, somewhere, sweated the details for you. Thank that person.

Pam
Pam
12 years ago

This is why I do not consider myself to be an MRA. However, I *think* how this sometimes gets put is that men should not do anything, make any sacrifices, for women in the current culture because women are behaving very madly towards men. Note this is not my personal idea; I’m just pointing it out.

Hey, thanx for stopping by and warning us, in that passive-aggressive manner that so becomes you, that we’d better change our “evil ways” and repent…. or else…..

Do CL and 7man know that you’ve returned here to consort with the evil feminists?

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
12 years ago

People who are disabled enough that it interferes with their chance of escaping generally don’t contribute as much to society (yes, I know, they might be the next Stephen Hawking, but how likely is that?)

They don’t contribute as much of what to society?
What contributions, of what kind, do you consider the bare minimum one must have on offer to “society” to deserve to live?
Do you have any idea how creepy you sound?

Pam
Pam
12 years ago

Because he’s lying in a pool of blood, mortally wounded and it’s too late for him BUT YOU CAN STILL SAVE YOURSELF! Run while there’s still time!!!!

LOL!!! I guess I wasn’t the only one who thought maybe they were reading the script of some really bad B-flick. owlyslave stars in DEMONSLAYER!

Pam
Pam
12 years ago

Although Slavey’s desire to save Mary from this evil place is touching, I’m a bit confused, since in general he thinks chivalry is terrible.

But……but….Mary’s one of the GOOOOOOOOD ONES!!!! She’d NEVER say “Jesus Tapdancing Christ”!!

aworldanonymous
12 years ago

Jesus Murphy H. Tapdancing Christ on a stick dipped in chocolate.

aworldanonymous
12 years ago

Oh, I was hoping that would bring Slavey back so that I could have a laugh before I went to bed.

Falconer
12 years ago

No, he is the Slave who walks by himself, and all places are alike to him. He comes when he wants to, and he goes when he wants to, and he arrives precisely when he means to, and no man is his master. You can tell by the way he hasn’t been arrested and interned in a FEMA concentration camp in the Rockies.

aworldanonymous
12 years ago

Ok, so he’s a slavewizard, got it.

pillowinhell
12 years ago

Speaking as someone who’s lived and worked with people with a wide range of diabilities, counter troll go fuck yourself.

Some of the people I’ve worked with have disabilities that can’t be seen. Some of the people I’ve worked with have been completely wheelchair bound and unable to even feed themselves. I’ve learned more about life, compassion and true perserverance from being part of their lives than I ever learned anywhere else. I’d shave tens years off my life if it eased some of their struggles. Everyone of the people I worked with had family and friends who considered them one of the brightest lights in their life and who (in the case of disabilities with short lifespans) were devastated when they died. Every life is valuable and every person has a gift to contribute should they choose to do so. Many of the people I worked with would leave no great achievements in scholarship or monuments behind, but they left the the world and lives they touched better just by being.

In devaluing people with disabilities, you’ve just devalued every human being on this planet. How great is a great achievement if another group are nothing?

And people like me who do shit jobs haven’t much value? LOL! You wouldn’t survive a week without countless unknown people like me taking care of all those details and tasks you don’t even realize exist!

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
12 years ago

I’m not ableist (probably not, anyway), I’m insensitive to everyone equally.

You can’t be “insensitive” to two groups in equal measure when one of the groups is already an easy target for institutionalized oppression. Being a jerk to the non-targets is just you being a jerk. Being a jerk to the targets is enforcing and encouraging an entire cultural narrative about how “those people” deserve to be treated as less than human.

We have words for this. “Bigoted” and “oppressive” are nice all-purpose ones, but when you do it to disabled people specifically, it’s called “ableism,” and when you doing it you are being ableist. You’re doing it.

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
12 years ago

*when you do it. Whoops.

indifferentsky
12 years ago

I’m not able to imagine the horrific scene where there is a shooter in a public place mowing people down, and then someone consciously or unconsciously basing their action on someone’s contribution to society. I know that people indeed have those views, and more than we think, but I doubt most people’s actions at that point are anything but protective in a general sense and emotional about their loved one, or someone that can’t help themselves. My son is disabled and without thinking “I” (nod to the free will issue that I can’t come to any conclusion on) would likely launch my body in front of him even though I’m the one he needs to survive, I’m the one he wants around, and I’m sure others could take over, but he would be devastated.

My grandparents had that “contribute to society” bug something fierce. I have something slightly wrong with my fingers, that I don’t even think about but once every few years because I’m so used to it, and it’s not much of an impediment, basically cosmetic, and my grandmother asked me when I told her I was pregnant if due to that I should be having children. There are about a thousand reasons I should not have had children at that time and I don’t want to confuse the issue, but that one just was so… weird to me. I was thinking, really? I should not have been born? Thanks gma! I realize I’ve changed the subject a bit, because I’m capable of contributing to society, but my grandparents were definitely assessing people’s value in that manner, right down to genetics.

I was thinking that it’s pretty hard to tally up value or worth even according to monetary standards, because if you make less of a footprint, I’m starting to think that’s more valuable than people realize. So a capitalist can do a lot of exploitation of folks, wreak havoc on the economic system and the planet and be viewed as someone contributing, but leave a huge footprint, carbon and otherwise. Of course people that see the big picture don’t have those views in the first place.

Soren
Soren
12 years ago

(yes, I know, they might be the next Stephen Hawking, but how likely is that?)

Yes, because that’s absolutely the only way for a disabled person to be useful, to be one of the greatest living scientists.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
12 years ago

Even if someone doesn’t currently contribute to society, they still have worth. I care about my dad, even if his motor function is limited to ‘watch Grand Prix’, ‘play card games on computer’ and ‘listen to audiobooks’. Pre-accident, he worked as an engineer, developing parts for personal and commercial vehicles, military hardware, and scientific equipment. Some of his work was in the LHC (unless you can prove otherwise, they functioned perfectly.)
Compared to my friends’ dads, mine did a pretty good job. On the other hand, my friends all had able-bodied parents and therefore had an automatic advantage in this comparison.
Also, he’s useful to ask questions (for my writing) that might get me into trouble otherwise. He has a vast knowledge of engineering, construction, and military hardware.

dgm
dgm
12 years ago

Rank hypocrisy here as always from feminists…feminists despise chivalry, yet attack the views of men who are calling for an end to it. When a man acts to help anyone in a selfless manner & it meets with feminist approval ( ie. a man dies so that a precious womwn may live ) he’s “altruistic”, when a man holds a door open ( a similarly altruistic act ) for a woman, he’s upholding the patriarchal values of chivalry.