JohnTheOther, blabby videoblogger and Number Two at A Voice for Men, has now weighed in with his own, slightly tardy, manifesto on the Aurora shooting and the evils of supposed male “disposability.” I didn’t read the whole thing – seriously, dude, OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS – but a few things stood out when I skimmed it. For example, this lovely passage, which seems to be a longer and fouler version of that ill-advised tweet from the Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto that I mentioned in my last post.
Our mainstream, which is to say, our corporate media – that which bends and fawns for access to the corrupt elected officials and modern robber barons of corporate statehood – is telling you, young man, that in order to be worthwhile, a real man, you’d better be prepared to die without complaint for the child, or the little old lady, or the drug addled slut in the next seat.
But Mr. TheOther is having none of it:
The instinct – expressing itself variously as chivalry or as fatal self sacrifice — is just one more that no longer has any discernable benefit. It is an encumbrance to any real pursuit of a civilized society in which one class of humans is not legally and socially elevated over another.
Sorry, kids; sorry, old ladies; sorry “drug addled sluts” — you’re on your own. Apparently, in a truly civilized society, no one ever looks out for anyone else. Altruism is for barbarians and Bill Bennett!
Here’s JtO’s stirring conclusion:
Those three men are not heroes, they’re just dead. The calculus of death, where one life is traded in celebration for another by preference of a vagina, is pathological and regressive. It must be recognized as the sickness it is. Those who lionized these men, whose fatal and unexamined instinct led to self-destruction; those who held them up as a heroic example to follow, are cordially invited to go first — or to go fuck themselves.
Charming as always, Mr. TheOther.
In the discussion of Mr. TheOther’s post in the Men’s Rights Subreddit, AVFM’s Paul Elam expands on the whole they aren’t heroes” theme, arguing that we need to retroactively strip away the hero status of the three men who died protecting their girlfriends — because they died protecting women.
@sharculese
Yeah makes sense. I don’t want to go into stereotypes but she reminds me of Maude Flanders…’oh I was at bible camp, I was learning how to be more judgemental’
Well let her be judgemental on her own blog
Would you recommend taking both pre-calculus AND calculus 101 before studying calculus of death, or can you go into it with only pre-calc?
I think you need pre-calc 101 and death 202.
@ thebionicmommy- I’m not sure altruism requires obligation of any kind. I like to imagine people do it out of love and heroism.
@jenny
it can get pretty weedy. i wouldnt recommend it without mult-variable calc and maybe some linear algebra under your belt
@whataboutthemoonz
Yeah the trollage recently has been nuts recently and they’re too dumb and boring to even bother with. We used to have more interesting trolls lol
@Sharc–
Well, I’m operating from fundie mode here; maybe it wasn’t false witness before I showed her how she had slandered Ms. Fluke. But once she knew, continuing to leave it up becomes a willful sin against God and His Son Jesus Christ.
I mean, if she’s not even honest enough to admit when she’s trangressed her own standards… HER OWN STANDARDS… well.
I may be willing to drag myself over the coals to point out Steele’s little hypocrisies right now, but only because he took a very promising first step back on the Tom Martin thread. Too much willful blindness, and I classify them with NWO. “Might skim what I wrote looking for ammunition.”
And that moves them from ‘gentle discourse’ to ‘mock robustly.’ If you’re not here to engage, fine. I get it. We can hang out on your level! I’ll feel a little dirty afterwards… but that’s what soap is for.
JtO clearly hasn’t taken the prereqs for death-calc, since he defines it as “where one life is traded in celebration for another by preference of a vagina,” which is clearly not calculus; it’s more like the economics of death.
You know, believing children should be left to die is a low I didn’t think even MRAs would sink to. These are people who if they ever had any empathy and human decency have long since abandoned it. I’m honestly too disgusted by the thought that children aren’t worth saving to say much else. I get that they hate women and can’t grasp the notion of a man loving a woman enough to die for her (or vice versa) but the lack of understanding that someone loves their child enough to want to save them is beyond even what I thought they were capable of.
@sunshinemary
As a woman, you should be able to understand that women are not a monolith, just as men are not all the same. I assume you know women in real life that are very different from you, women who God has blessed with different talents and strengths and temperaments. Does the fact that one of these women might be treating one of these men like crap justify men treating all women like crap?
Heck, the women I know that dealt with domestic abuse didn’t paint all men with the same brush as their abuser after all they went through.
What level of self-loathing does it take to make a guy go from one particular women doesn’t require me in her life to all women think all men are disposable?
Maybe it’s just my pink fluffy ladybrainz, or maybe it’s just that I’ve forgotten much of what I learned in the two years since I’ve taken a calc class, but what JtO describes seems a lot more like “the basic arithmetic of death” than “the calculus of death.” I mean, what JtO’s talking about essentially seems to amount to “subtract one life and add another.” And that seems more like first grade level arithmetic than calculus to me.
d/dt (death) = dying
The calculus of death is a type of scalar calculus.
🙂
sunshinemary: However, I *think* how this sometimes gets put is that men should not do anything, make any sacrifices, for women in the current culture because women are behaving very madly towards men. Note this is not my personal idea; I’m just pointing it out. My preference is have an altruistic society.
Why are you pointing it out if you don’t agree with it? Because it seems you are (with some attempt at plausible deniability), defending it.
And it’s the opposite of an altruistic society.
The MRA’s said some of the same horrible crap on Internet reports of Don Lansaw giving his life for his wife. Most places like youtube and MSNBC deleted their hurtful comments, but some of them are still there at places like the daily mail. Just like the Westboro Baptist Church, the MRA’s jump at any chance to cause more pain for people already in grief. I don’t know how they can look themselves in the mirror after getting on the Internet and bashing grieving widows.
We used to have some hellishly boring ones as well, to be fair. And Varpole Buttsteele has given me far more genuine belly laughs than B_____n ever did.
They don’t really believe this shit. Not really. If they did then instead of making up increasingly ridiculous memes about these men (what was that yesterday about the one guy probably just trying to get laid) in a pathetic attempt
to diminish their sacrifice they’d just write pieces praising the guy who put his four month old on the floor, left his girlfriend and other child, fled the scene and drove away.
Wasn’t NWO on here the other day talking out of both sides of his face about that dude? How on the one hand he was a product of feminism but, how his life is ruined and possibly in danger for his actions ?
If the MRAs want to influence culture so that men won’t feel obligated to act in a heroic fashion -misandry!!!-
then they should be writing articles praising that guy as the only real hero in Aurora. They should be condemning the single father of four who died protecting his children.
@sunshinemary
Do yourself a favor and leave this place and never come back. This is hell. These people promote every form of sexual debauchery. They hate morality. They hate the patriarchal family. They hate Christianity. They hate masculinity. They hate even the idea of God. They worship their own greatness.
If you look at the bible, the first sin was the temptation of the forbidden apple. The serpent promised the woman she’d have ultimate knowledge and become a god herself. Everyone here practices that same sin. They believe themselves to have ultimate knowledge and have proclaimed themselves as gods of their own morality. The everyone decides what’s best for themselves is exactly that.
Leave this place and never come back.
Yes, that’s right. He said
So first NWO was complaining that people called the guy a coward for leaving a baby on the floor to save himself. Later he said
So he was criticizing the man for crying and being the “product of a feminized society”. I can’t figure out if he dislikes Jaime Rohrs for crying, or if he likes him for abandoning his family when they were in danger. He also wouldn’t even respond to me telling him about how heroic Jarell Brooks acted in the theater to help that woman and her children.
MRAs, Randians and the right-libertarian movement: taking the ‘Enlightened’ out of ‘Enlightened self-interest’ for nearly a century!
@pecunium
Mary seems to be saying what I’ve seen a few other MRAs saying- that men should only protect women if women agree to take on the role as inferior sex and only if they respect (read: obey and submit) to men.
So basically only women like Mary deserve saving because she knows her place. I would rather die than trade my freedom.
And before NWOshitface comes in and tells me I gave my freedom to big daddy gubmint, no you snivelling turd, I didn’t. I don’t use welfare or any other social program but even if I had to one day I’m entitled to them because my taxes contribute to them.
No boyfriend that I use for free dinners and drinks either.
Quackers: Right, and that’s the opposite of altruism.
thebionicmommy/Nobinayamu: NWO has no idea about how the people who were there will be in year. I’ve seen soldiers, manly types; SF dudes, bawling their eyes out. I’ve seen dudes be stoic as all fuck.
I’ve known some of each to kill themselves. I have a friend who spent chunks of time making sure he knew which pistol he’d use to kill himself (he’s better now). I know people who cut themselves to make the urge to kill themselves go away.
It’s not that one needs to be “in touch with one’s emotions”. It’s more complex than that.
I never had an active urge to kill myself, but there have been times when being dead didn’t seem like something to avoid.
Aw, Mary’s back! Still willing to defend the idea that it’s a woman’s responsibility to stay in an abusive marriage, Sunshine?