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Men’s Rights Redditor: “The cougar phenomenon is perverse. Yet we criminalize sex with fertile women who haven’t passed some arbitrary age limit.”

Fresh from the Men’s Rights subreddit,  some thoughts from some dude called atiwywr on cougars, age of consent laws, and Justin Beiber.

So “cougars” are perverse, but pedophilia – sorry, ephebophilia — is natural and good?

The age of consent in most American states is 16.

Complaining that men can’t legally have sex with girls – sorry, “fertile women” – aged 15 and younger: Men’s Rights activism at its finest!

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Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Yeah, and what about women sexual peaking in their 30’s to early 40s? The Spearhead said that was a myth, of course. *chuckle* Yeah, sure fellas, the Kinsey Institute got it wrong.
Does anyone else get the feeling these guys aren’t interested in having good sex? I think they perfer the shallow comfort of having a women who has never seen a penis before. Pathetic.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

Postulate: they don’t bother trying to give their partner a good time, so people who know good times are possible go “Fuckit, this is crap, I’m gonna find someone who appreciates me as more than a warm hole”?

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Shiraz: I don’t question the fact that most women experience a peak around 40, but I think it might be because younger women often are a bit sexually repressed, rather than a biological thing. Women are constantly taught to focus on the guy and what HE feels like and think about us. Walk the narrow line between slut and prude and please your boyfriend while you do it, rather than figure out what YOU want. Maybe for lots of women it simply takes time to learn to focus on their own pleasure, and that’s why many women experience a peak when they’re a bit older.

At least that’s a theory me and a friend came up with, when we discussed how badly our own experiences matched the idea that women peak around 40 (we both remembered being constantly horny as teens, and then as grown-ups our sex drive sort of settled at a more, er, normal level).

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Of course Muslim countries are going to pop into my head when I think about child brides. Their religion’s founder married and had sexual relations with a nine year old. And before I mentioned these Muslim countries as an example, I mentioned ancient Jews. So why aren’t you calling me anti-semitic?

Sgt Grumbles
Sgt Grumbles
8 years ago

Atiwywr misspelled Bieber. If his name was spelled ‘Beiber’ it would rhyme with ‘fiber.’ I don’t touch the music with a ten-foot-pole but I still know that.

Vitamin D
Vitamin D
8 years ago

@ Ruby-
‘Their religion’s founder married and had sexual relations with a nine year old.’ Dude, that was 1400 years ago. I’m pretty sure 9 year olds were being married off all over the world back then. See, the islamaphobic bit is where you extrapolate that one bit of data to an entire population of present day muslims. And I’m pretty sure no one called you an anti-semite because you didn’t say anything so blatently anti-semetic. But there’s still time.

cloudiah
8 years ago

If someone with a stronger stomach than I feels like reading it, JtO has a piece up on Aurora at AVfm.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Their religion’s founder married and had sexual relations with a nine year old.

…and that was totally a unique practice to his region that was never practiced elsewhere. Nope. Only Islam has that distinction. Are you trying to sound stupid?

And before I mentioned these Muslim countries as an example, I mentioned ancient Jews. So why aren’t you calling me anti-semitic?

Because the old testament has been so thoroughly appropriated by Christians that unless you call it the Torah, there’s not even reason to think you’re really shit talking jews specifically to begin with?

cloudiah
8 years ago

Why did I post that comment here? I meant to post it in the Aurora thread. BRAIN, WHY ARE YOU FAILING ME??!?!?!?!

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Ruby, you could have stuck with the growing Christian fundementalists who are also practicing arranged, underage marriages. Or the various polygamists sects (nothing wrong with polygamy, so long as its all CONSENTING adults, who understand the lack of legal protections they have) who marry underage girls.

Do you even understand some of the pressures people in other areas of the world face and why they might choose to marry their daughters so young?

MrsBennet
MrsBennet
8 years ago

Okay, even from an evo-psych perspective, this is a total fail. Women are most fertile from the ages of 20-25, and are considered most beautiful at about the age of 25 according to most surveys (presumably because the modern day 25 year old woman shows less wear and tear than her ancestors). Neither perceived pulchritude nor fertility start to drop off rapidly until after age 35 (on average). So, how are these facts in line with dating 14-year-olds?

for the record, I think evo-psych is a useful area of study, and that it can help one understand the motivations of groups of individuals. I do not think it follows, however, that IS = SHOULD BE. I also realize that generalizations about human behavior and motivation doesn’t necessarily mean anything to the individual.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Unfortunately, there are Muslims who justify child marriage because of Mohammed marrying (and fucking) Aisha, a nine year old girl. The guy was a sick pervert. The same goes for any guy doing this, like Warren Jeffs. It doesn’t matter the religion, culture, or circumstances, having sexual relations with girls before they are grown is wrong.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Of course Muslim countries are going to pop into my head when I think about child brides.

well yeah, because youre a racist

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

It boggles my mind that when shit like this happens:

http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/santa-cruz/Santa-Cruz-sheriff-Tennessee-man-preying-on-girls-in-FeltonSanta-Cruz-sheriff-Tennessee-man-preying-on-girls-in-Felton/-/5738976/15726732/-/c6xb5jz/-/index.html

They still say shit like “he had SEX with the 13 year old girl.”

COME ON MEDIA, that’s RAPE.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

@ Dvarghundspossen, I agree with you, it’s about sexual experience in many cases.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

@Happy

They are posting them on bus shelters in Alberta and elsewhere in Canada. I don’t see how it can be done anonymously, I see people put up posters and flyers all the time in the city. Anyone can go up and ask them about it. In my honest opinion I do think they believe other men feel the way they do and are not ashamed, and their pretend fear at the feminist police coming after them is BS too.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

@Dvarghundspossen- I have had sex that I did not want to have plenty of times. Most of the time because the ensuing argument and whining was less worth it than just letting him use my breasts or vagina to get off. I was young and coming from a household where my mom was incredibly unpleasant and abusive, and being able to go over to my boyfriend’s house and eat ramen and watch anime and relax for most of the time (except if he had an erection of course), was preferable. I was willing to “pay the price” of having to do sex stuff I hated so that I wouldn’t have to be at home with the horrible shouting and manipulation and other bullshit that my mom kept putting me through.

Having more sex with him wouldn’t have made the sex better, either. It wouldn’t have made the relationship better either. And sex in and of itself is not the only sort of INTIMACY that people can have together. From a heart to heart conversation to a bunch of cuddling or other physical touch, there is plenty of intimacy you can have to strengthen a relationship that doesn’t involve a lot of sex. Sex is only part of the equation. And chances are, if one person has to force themselves to have sex, the sex isn’t going to “fix” the problem.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The idea that sex that one partner doesn’t want will help a couple to bond is so ass-backwards that it gives me a headache. I can’t think of many things less likely to increase my warm fuzzy feelings towards someone than their manipulating me into sex, and the feelings most people experience in the aftermath of giving in to sex that they didn’t want are not the kind that increase bonding at all.

Noadi
Noadi
8 years ago

@pecunium And that nonsense is why a lot of riding clubs and such bar or put heavy restrictions on stallions. My dad had the gorgeous Appaloosa stallion when I was a kid (sadly Stormy has passed away) and he was a huge sweetheart, when my brother and I started riding him I was 11 and my brother was 9. He was around another gelding and my grandfather’s mares (when they weren’t in heat) and my dad trained him very well. Eventually my dad chose to have him gelded because Dad wasn’t allowed to ride him at most events and my brother and I were absolutely not allowed to ride him at any event. Stallions have a bad rap as dangerous to riders and other horses because they are no socialized well which feeds into them being socialized even less.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Sharculese, I like what Greg Gutfeld says mocking liberals, “If you disagree with me, then you’re a racist homophobe.” LOL! Come on, don’t you people on the left get tired of throwing around those labels? Apparently not.

darksidecat
8 years ago

A quick glance at global child marriage statistics will quickly show you that Muslim countries are by no means at all the only serious cases. http://www.icrw.org/child-marriage-facts-and-figures Singling out Islam here doesn’t show that you are concerned, it shows that you are ignorant about this topic and are just using it as a form of racist/imperialist targeting.

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

Oh man, I love it when racist homophobes pretend that a good defense to racist homophobia is pretending that it’s ridiculous that anyone would actually call out a racist homophobe on their racist homophobia. Fox News: We’re just assuming that you’re not paying attention!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Bee — that’s a straight up fallacy, that’s wtf begging the question actually means (and we’ve had a lot of it today)

Begging the question (petitio principii) – where the conclusion of an argument is implicitly or explicitly assumed in one of the premise

A particularly complex way of saying “I can’t be an X because I said I’m not!” which really, isn’t all that funny once you’re out of grade school.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

..you people on the left..

Well, I see Ruby has gone into full libertarian mode. Maybe now she’ll stop trying to pretend she’s on our side, and that she cares about anything but herself.

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

I don’t think we’ve already called you a homophobe, Ruby, but at your rate it wouldn’t exactly shock me. I mean, we already know you’re a a troll, a racist, a prison rape apologist, that you believe in evo psych (and that all women are like you) and that you don’t care about poor people dying. At this point it would only make you a little worse than you already are.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

You’ve been racist before, because you said stupid shit on immigrants, and non-white people. You’re being racist now. It’s not just that I disagree with you, it’s that you’re being racist *right this second*.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

What a surprise, Greg Gutfield actually is a racist heterosexist (and cis-sexist aside)

“Gutfeld often refers to his houseboys, usually with homosexual overtones, but claims his wife knows all about these houseboys, who are of various ethnicities. He also claims these houseboys usually become disgruntled or turn up dead.

Gutfeld often refers to the nefarious things that happen in his basement, where he keeps his houseboys.”

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Nanasha: That sounds terrible, I’m really sorry. And I totally agree that sex won’t magically make you bond and fix the relationship.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

And I totally agree that sex won’t magically make you bond and fix the relationship.

Neither will marriage. And yet I know loads of people who misguidedly thought just that.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Wetherby: Talk about marrying for the wrong reason.

Sometimes you hear that people nowadays “are too quick to get a divorce” and should struggle more to save the relationship. Well, you could think it’s a sad fact that 50 % of all marriages end in a divorce (at least in Sweden, don’t know the US statistics) since that’s not what people intend when they get married. Still, I don’t think the problem is that people “are too quick to get a divorce”. If you’d want to do some sort of campaign in order to reduce the number of divorces it would probably be better to encourage people not to marry for bad reasons (I’m not saying that all couples who end up divorced married for the wrong reasons, but IF you marry because, say, you think that will make the relationship better, I think an eventual divorce is almost guaranteed).

pecunium
8 years ago

Dvärghundspossen: Well, you could think it’s a sad fact that 50 % of all marriages end in a divorce (at least in Sweden, don’t know the US statistics)

That’s about right, for the US too.

One wonders, what was the rate of spousal infidelity in the past, when people couldn’t get divorces. We know there were lots of men who skipped out on their families, without the risk of being tracked down and made to support the children.

That, btw, is what the, “spermjacking” is about. All those idiots ranting about how “it’s nature to want to fuck children, because they are fertile” are the same ones who think it’s a crime against nature to expect a father to contribute to the rearing of those children.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Kyrie, that’s just what you want to believe because my political views aren’t the same as the Left. Capitalism and charity help the poor way more than government programs (which keep them in poverty), and I’m all for helping them. I want equal opportunity for everyone no matter their race, religion, or sexual orientation. No, that doesn’t mean economy killing redistribution of wealth. I’m more into teaching people to fish than just giving them fish. So no, I don’t hate the poor.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Sharculese, I like what Greg Gutfeld says mocking liberals, “If you disagree with me, then you’re a racist homophobe.” LOL! Come on, don’t you people on the left get tired of throwing around those labels? Apparently not.

i have no doubt your a big fan of that sort of trite knee-jerk reductionism, champ.

but seriously, if your going to get all indignant about labels, you might want to do it without sniveling about ‘the left’.

Sharculese
8 years ago

I’m more into teaching people to fish than just giving them fish.

oh look, more trite meaningless aphorism- the only thing ruby really stands for.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Well, I see Ruby has gone into full libertarian mode.

ruby’s not actually a libertarian. she’s a garden variety wingnut, who like many such creatures, calls herself a libertarian because she thinks it makes her sound interesting and different.

Sharculese
8 years ago

fourthpost- y’know rubes, a real non-racist would have acknowledged how what she said could have been taken as racist. the fact that you immediately go into flailing HOW DARE YOU CALL ME THE R-WORD mode is telling, the fact that you are capable of zero self-reflection on the subject and have to blame other people for it, also telling.

i thought wingnuts were supposed to be about personal responsibility?

Sharculese
8 years ago

also it’s like you completely forgot your screeching tantrums about those goddam lazy thieving poors, and assume were as stupid as you are, so we dont remember them either.

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

Ruby, I already read what you wrote.There’s no point in trying to convince me you’re not a horrible person, we’re way past that point, even with the rape apology alone. (which was the more obvious). And I didn’t say you hated poor people, just that you don’t give a damn about them, including their death. I think many here remember that your solution to poor people’s health issues is that they just stop eating so much fast food and that your solution to poverty in general is that poor people do more efforts.

Capitalism […] help the poor >
Lol. Citation needed. Not from the Daily Mail, please.

[…]charity help the poor way more than government programs (which keep them in poverty) […] I’m more into teaching people to fish than just giving them fish.

And how is charity less “giving the fish” than governement programs, exactly?

nwoslave
8 years ago

@pecunium
“We know there were lots of men who skipped out on their families, without the risk of being tracked down and made to support the children.”

Do we know this? What is lots? 1,2,10 in a thousand? Were their lots of women who skipped out? Do you have an agenda of portraying women as victims and men as bad?
———-
@Wetherby
“Neither will marriage. And yet I know loads of people who misguidedly thought just that.”

Do you know loads of people who thought that? Did they tell you that? Did you know what they were thinking?
———-
@Argenti Aertheri
“A particularly complex way of saying “I can’t be an X because I said I’m not!” which really, isn’t all that funny once you’re out of grade school.”

None of the hallowed manboobz crew are racist or sexist because they said they’re not. After all, you’re not sexist because you said so. A womans word is gospel.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

Ruby:

I’m more into teaching people to fish than just giving them fish.

Teaching someone to fish does a crap load of good when that person can’t afford fishing equipment and doesn’t have a place to fish.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

If you’d want to do some sort of campaign in order to reduce the number of divorces it would probably be better to encourage people not to marry for bad reasons (I’m not saying that all couples who end up divorced married for the wrong reasons, but IF you marry because, say, you think that will make the relationship better, I think an eventual divorce is almost guaranteed).

I completely agree, and can’t help but be reminded of a time when a friend got engaged and a mutual friend predicted disaster on the grounds that he was “too boring for her”. In fact, they’re marking their 17th wedding anniversary next month – because she very sensibly got married for the right reasons.

One person’s “boring” is another’s embodiment of rock-solid reliability, which very much seems to be the case here.

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

@meowvelous,

The fact that these guys feel so threatened by mature women who are potentially peers and equals never ceases to amaze me. They are so obsessed with equating female youth with desirability.

I was on Dalrock a while back observing a particularly heated thread called “Are Women Over 55 Through with Men?” The general consensus among the largely male posters was that the reason why women over 55 are through with men is because of sour grapes. In other words, these women are through with men because all women over a certain age can’t possibly be anything other than dried up, ugly old hags who no one could possibly want. These guys (and misguided women) became positively apoplectic when some people (myself included) pointed out that many men of a certain age who are mature and well-adjusted actually prefer women who are close to them in age, as opposed to Barbie dolls young enough to be their daughters or grand-daughters.

I’m a little late to the party on this one…. got called out to work yesterday afternoon and just had a chance to read the mentioned thread this morning.

Yeah, it’s the same crap (and mostly the same commentariat) that I see at other manosphere (mostly Christian Manosphere) blogs that I mainly lurk at (post once in a while for the lulz I get out of reading the ensuing flamefest). What those “guys (and misguided women)” explain are the “True Fax”, whereas anything anyone might contribute to the contrary is, if not outright lying, “hamster rationalizations”.

Especially lulz-worthy were two similar comments from TFH (think he used to go by the handle “The Fifth Horseman”) directed at two different commenters:

Monique, you have no idea how women think. And no, being a woman does not mean you know how women think – quite the opposite in fact.

You will have to accept that most men here actually have a vastly better understanding of how women think, than you do.

Yes, you heard that right. We know how women think better than you do.

The best thing you can do is read up on Heartiste, Dalrock, The Misandry Bubble, etc. with the expectation that a lot of dogma you have been fed about how women (and men) think is entirely wrong.

Whatever would we do without those hotbeds of (mostly) male angst to tell us how we think?!

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

A womans word is gospel. – Owly

Owly and Steele must be starting to blend into one being, because they’re both getting really repetitive with their words.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

I’m a libertarian because I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I’m neither left or right-wing. It’s you lefties and righties who tend to be the, “wing-nuts.” LOL!

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

Capitalism and charity help the poor way more than government programs (which keep them in poverty), and I’m all for helping them.

Book of Larnin’ Ruby edition:
Capitalism and charity help the poor more than roads, universal healthcare, water quality standards and police, since those are all “government programs”.

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

I’m a libertarian because I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I’m neither left or right-wing. It’s you lefties and righties who tend to be the, “wing-nuts.” LOL!

Being in favour of reproductive rights and opposed to social justice doesn’t make you a moderate. It just makes you a hypocrite.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

I’m a libertarian because I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I’m neither left or right-wing. It’s you lefties and righties who tend to be the, “wing-nuts.” LOL!

The search has taken over a century, but Oscar Wilde finally has a worthy successor.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

I’m a libertarian because I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

“Women are naturally golddiggers! Oh, and put down the Big Mac or you deserve to die, fatty! Lol!”

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Whenever I read a libertarian say they’re “fiscally conservative and socially liberal”, I like to imagine “fiscally conservative” in giant 50 point font, and “socially liberal” in tiny 4 point font. Because that’s usually what it amounts to.

Sharculese
8 years ago

I’m a libertarian because I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I’m neither left or right-wing.

omg the creepy little rape enthusiast thinks she’s socially liberal

dude we’ve all heard this line from a dozen cookie-cutter internet reactionaries, and it’s not different when you parrot it

It’s you lefties and righties who tend to be the, “wing-nuts.” LOL!

ooooh, kiddo, please please please try not be clever again. i get now why you stick to the trite and banal.