It’s amazing how daintily some manosphere dudes dance around the word “misogyny.”After spewing forth venomous woman-hating filth in post after post, they turn around and equally vociferously deny that they are in any way misogynistic – after all, they can think of three or four women in their life they don’t actively hate.
It’s strange. Men whose entire political and social philosophy is based on the hatred of women aren’t willing to say this out loud.
Over on Hawaiian Libertarian, a blog with some influence within the marginal universe of the manosphere, Keoni Galt is a bit more honest: he is proudly and openly misogynist. Not only that, but he’s convinced that others in the manosphere need to fully accept misogyny into their shrunken little hearts. And he’s written a little manifesto about it:
Misogyny is the key to male liberation from blue pill delusions. Only by embracing it, can men adopt a new paradigm in which the female of the human species has forever been knocked off of the pedestal that had been erected in our minds by institutionalized brainwashing and mass media programming.
Galt starts out with a fairly standard-issue manosphere confessional. Turns out that before he saw the light – sorry, took the red pill — he was a poor female-besotted white-knight mangina like most of the unlucky males of this world:
Back in the blue pill days, I was enchanted and mesmerized by the female gender as a whole. Tell-a-Vision and a childhood steeped in Churchianity had me forever looking at the female gender as the only bright light in a world of shit. I was indoctrinated into becoming a worshiper at the feet of the pedestal of the “sacred feminine.”
The last thing I ever wanted to become, was a misogynist. No, I bought into the delusion that the key to being accepted and gain the approval of the female herd was to become the vaunted WhiteKnight-EmotionalTampon- InTouchWithMyFeelings- LJBF-NICE GUY.
Oh dear, we have to listen to the sad, boring tale of the Nice Guy once again.
All a woman…ANY woman (not just young, attractive ones)…had to do when I was younger, was smile at me or give me a pathetic pleading look, or a nice sounding request and I was ready to do her bidding. The bat of an eyelash or a supplicating sound of her voice had me ready to ask her “how high would you like me to jump?”
I helped ladies move, “lent” them money (never asked for it back, mostly never got paid back either), given them rides, helped them with homework, built them things, fixed their cars, bought them drinks and/or meals…anything any female in my life requested, I did. “NO” was not a part of my vocabulary when it came to dealing with the opposite gender.
Helping friends isn’t a character flaw. But you’re the one who made yourself into a doormat.
I also spent many a time with groups of female friends, joining in on the “all men are pigs” type of conversations. I’ve been that “one of the girls” guy on many an occasion. (“You’re so COOL! Why can’t more guys be like YOU?!”
But, Galt assures us, he wasn’t one of those passive-aggressive, guilt-tripping dudes who tries to “nice guy” his crushes into bed.
I’m not talking about being the “nice guy” here in hopes of getting a romantic response from a particular female. These are women for whom I knew as friends, acquaintances, co-workers, colleagues etc. In other words, if it had a vagina, I said “yes dear” to any and every request, simply to live up to the expectations inculcated in my mind on how a “good man” is one who serves the feminine imperative.
My indoctrination and upbringing had trained me to seek feminine approval above anything else.
What the hell kind of “indoctrination” did you get? Did you grow up in some sort of Goddess Cult? I’ve never met a single other person who’s been “indoctrinated” in this fashion. It’s almost as though you’re exaggerating or just making shit up in such a way as to justify your present-day misogyny.
Oh, wait, you are:
I’ve come to the realization that misogyny is the inevitable antidote one must accept, after gaining an understanding of the ugly truth of the female imperative and how it works to enslave men for it’s own purpose.
Yes, the only two options for men in the contemporary world – the only two — are to either bend over backwards and do everything women ask them to do in a creepily self-abasing way while agreeing that “all men are pigs,” or to decide that women are shit. (It’s not like this is a logical fallacy or anything.)
Most women nowadays really are beneath contempt. Manipulative, conniving, self-centered and solipsistic…especially beautiful ones.
[citation needed]
I now understand that this is the result of the programming most females are inculcated with from the same mass media culture that programmed me to be a pedestal worshiper.
[citation needed]
Actually, ALL women are solipsistic and manipulative to a certain degree (AWALT). It is their very nature. The real problem is that our mass media culture encourages women to embrace it, revel in it, and use their power of attraction to manipulate for their own selfish ends. It has always been like this, I just never recognized it until the hindsight as seen through the clarity of understanding that came with taking the red pill.
You realize that what you call the “red pill” is just a slightly exaggerated and updated version of not-so-good old fashioned misogyny, which has been around since the beginnings of civilization if not earlier?
But one thing this misogynist will admit: Not all women are like that. Really. I know a few.
Dude, dude, you just literally said that ALL women ARE like that. Like, in the paragraph you just finished writing.
These are women who understand that the true path to happiness is creating a sphere of nurturing and contentment amongst her friends and family. Such women are a literal joy to be around. There contentment is infectious.
“There contentment?” If these women truly loved you, wouldn’t they help you proofread your drivel?
But for most women I meet, my baseline assumption is that they are contemptuous creatures not worthy of anything other than basic human consideration…unless and until they prove otherwise.
Well, my baseline assumption is that the dudes of the manosphere are a bunch of pompous douchenozzles. And so far, I’m not altogether happy to report, not one has provided even a shred of evidence suggesting otherwise.
Crucial context missing: in their world, if you cheat, you die and are tortured forever and ever. This would be closer equivalent to seeing your friend playing with matches on a pile of gasoline-soaked razor-blades.
So, y’know, absolute moral outrage and shunning so as to keep the gasoline off yourself is one hundred percent essential. And if any silly Ladeebrainz don’t want to be outraged and shun 100%, that proves they can’t possibly be trusted with thinking.
I do find it amusing that Little Miss Sunshine has chosen to not respond to any of the hard data I’ve presented in good faith; namely, that a well-known demograph of religious people who believe in hierarchical christian patriarchy have over twice the national average of clinical depression. These are people whose social and cultural values mirror her own, who believe in the same concepts of inferiority and submissiveness of women to men. And when presented with hard evidence that, contrary to her broad-brush assertion, they are NOT happy and fulfilled, rather than address it, she completely ignores it except to assert that said group aren’t REALLY christian and their problem is actually Jello.
I made my good-faith argument, Mary. Where’s yours? If your way really is the best way, shouldn’t you have some hard evidence or at least a good faith argument to back it up?
And no, quoting a Biblical character’s 2,000 year old opinion isn’t “good faith.” It’s no better than me quoting “Moby Dick” in an attempt to prove the character of whales.
“…and their problem is actually Jello.”
Just a guess here, but wouldn’t the rate of jello sales probably correlate with the number of kids? I’m assuming the numbers here are normalized to account for population size and that more jello sales means per person? Thus implying more kids per person?
Isn’t it kind of an already studied thing that more kids means less happy? (And obvious fact is obvious — less happy will raise rates of anti-depressant usage)
OMG, Christian Men’s Defense Network! Most women don’t understand male leadership? The Book of Oprah? HAMSTERBATION?!
I nominate this for the Boob Roll.
Exactly. We’re in total agreement. As long as someone’s choices isn’t causing harm to others, then I don’t see the value in ranking them as “good feminist” or “bad feminist”. That just leads to pissing contests of who can be the most feminist of them all.
That’s a good point. I used to be a fundie when I was a kid, so I know how dire the threat of eternal damnation was. My reaction as a fundie to that scenario would probably be much different than what I would say now.
@Amnesia:
I agree about the Boob Roll. This site is overflowing with boobery that just begs for an article too.
Effie, Mormons reject much of the Christian Bible. They believe that each man is a god. They are not Christians. This not my personal opinion, it was also the opinion of the founders of their religion. Wanting to be called “Christians” is a relatively recent development for them; previously they preferred not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith Jr. said were, “all wrong … all their creeds were an abomination in His sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt” (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19). They might be depressed (I did not take the time to verify your data but will just accept it), they might eat jello, they might do a lot of things, but they are not Christians.
sunshinemary:
Epiphany!:
No, the problem is that the preceding verse is omitted:
EPHESIANS 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Paul’s actual letter to the Ephesians wasn’t partitioned into chapters and further sectioned off into verses (that occurred later, in the translations), so the word translated into English as “submit” was added to verse 22, it doesn’t appear there in the language in which it was originally written.
So, verse 21 is saying, in essence, what Pecunium has stated in one of his comments here, “Jesus is broader, he said to be good to everyone. Paul agrees, but focuses on how to best be good to those with whom one spends one’s time, most esp. in the church.” And that is also a better description of what the word translated into English as “submit” actually means. The verses following #21, and on into “chapter” 6 are descriptive of how to put that “submitting to one another” into practice within the household, and are not laying out “The Proper Top-Down Hierarchy Within the Family as Commanded by God”.
sunshinemary:
Who was it that gave men said authority and responsibility… or did they just take it for themselves?
I am baffled by calls for me to give advice to lesbians on how to order their relationships. I am not a homosexual. If I were a homosexual, I would remain celibate because of the tenets of my faith. I cannot offer any insight into how lesbians should organize their relationships and never claimed that I could.
why?
Sunshine Troll: Lots of people have debunked a bunch of your crap–I haven’t read the whole thead yet, but this is killing me.
You talk about essays by bitter spinsters, blah blah.
Then you cite ONLINE articles by REPORTERS.
Go read some of the feminist scholarship on sexism in the media: here’s the google search:
https://encrypted.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=sexism%20in%20the%20mainstream%20media&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=7201d292903782aa&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=908
And if you say SCIENCE, I’m outta here.
And that’d be really confusing, because as a cis man, I’m physiologically well-suited to controlled pissing, and yet would expect to lose Best Feminist pissing contests!
THAT WAY MADNESS LIES
[Disclaimer: This comment is incredibly silly and is not intended to contain any meaningful content. Brush teeth twice daily. Use MorkaisChosen responsibly. May contain nuts.]
I think it’s pretty common for church leaders to say that they know the truth, and everyone else is wrong. That’s why there are so many denominations of Christianity. How often will you hear a preacher say something like “We do infant baptisms because it’s our best guess. The churches that teach adult baptisms might be right, too, we have no idea”. It seems hypocritical to criticize Mormons for saying they are the one true church, when plenty of Protestants do the same thing.
As a heterosexual cis woman, if I were asked to give advice to lesbians, based on those verses in Ephesians, I would have to say this:
Be kind, thoughtful and considerate of each other. Do not seek to “get one’s own way” in everything, at the expense of your partner’s needs/wants/desires, but seek to uphold and uplift your partner.
Mary,
You’re very intellectually dishonest, aren’t you?
You came in here and made the claim that women who are subservient to their husbands for Jesus are happy and fulfilled as opposed to those “bitter spinsters” you’ve supposedly seen on the internet.
I refuted your claim, citing evidence of rates of clinical depression diagnoses and anti-depressant prescription in a population of people whose cultural and social values regarding women match yours; that a population of women who are subservient to their husbands for Jesus are proven to NOT be happy and fulfilled.
You still have not answered my refutation of your claim. Instead, you’ve attempted to derail that particular point by claiming that mormons aren’t christian. That is known as “bad faith.”
I don’t give a hoot what they call themselves. They could be Congregationalists, Catholics, Hare Krishnas, it matters not. What matters is that you refuse to back up your claim or answer any refutations of it.
You made the claim of broad-brush happiness amongst women in your position. I refuted with hard data, which you just said you’d accept. The burden of proof is on YOU to defend your claim. Either answer the charge, argue in good faith, or admit you’re just prattling on about something your husband told you, something you’re not actually prepared to defend, and go back to your kitchen.
well, why wide proud mary be interested in a serious intellectual argument when she can beat us over the head with her faith
OK, Effie, the data you linked to is from 2002 from a non-profit organization.
According the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Utah is only average for depression. The West Coast and the deep South scored significantly higher for depression. Not patriarchal old Utah…
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsDepression/
I had a feeling that if I actually took the time to look at your data, it would be low quality and inaccurate, and that turned out to be the case.
Is this “good faith” enough?
I just wanted to apologize again for my rage attack yesterday, especially to David, who had to read the filth I wrote. I am completely disgusted with myself.
Sunshine Mary, do you have a masters degree & didn’t finish doctorate? Yet, you aren’t going to let your girls go to university?
If I may ask, politely, how many children do you have – boys & girls?
I know you are. That was the point. Earth to Mary: Your advice is meaningless to me, because it is based on wrong premises, follows alien morality, and is generally not reality-based. I wanted to watch you flail, which, by the way, *kisses fingers*, delicious.
Yeah, I figured “Jesus hates gays” would underlie that, ultimately! Those of us who don’t base our ethics on the ancient writings of dead people belonging to antiquatedcultures that vanished millenia ago find this quaint at best, and ignorant at worst, as a justification.
Gee, kind of quiet in here all of a sudden, isn’t it?
Rutee, I did not offer to give advice to gays. It was requested of me multiple times for some bizarre reason.
Rutee are you at all capable of responding only to my words? You rewrite what I write and then respond to your rewrite.
No, it’s “Most women do not understand true leadership” (bold emphasis is mine, not in the original statement). And true leadership is necessarily male leadership because of females’ “‘gina tingles”, as the title of the post is “The Tyranny of Tingles – Part 1”
I second that nomination.
Well this is a first, I have issues with the CDC data — it looks like their chart is only looking at the current rate of depression, while the NMHA chart is looking at the past year. In one sense the former method is more accurate — it’s measuring depression by diagnosis, not self-report — in another sense, argh small sample sizes are annoying. Ideally you’d want a chart of diagnosed depression over the course of ones lifetime, but I doubt that’d be easy to find.
Also, the failure (in both cases) to account for socio-economic status is annoying me. I get why the CDC doesn’t use self-reporting here, but it seems like they should be using clinical data, or a longitudinal design (the former doesn’t account for lack of access to treatment and unsampled populations, but the latter is expensive). Using self-reports for a diagnosable condition is a bit strange too though.
Congrats guys, you’ve come up with a research question that I can’t decide a good answer to.
I think I should reiterate that I came here originally to say that my observations confirmed Keoni Galt’s. Others asked me about myself, and I gave my reasons for the choices I have made. At no time have I given advice to anyone nor have I ever suggested that anyone should make the same choices that I have. Yet people continue to ask me some version of, “Who are you to tell me how to live?” when all I have done is say how I live, not tell anyone else how to conduct their lives.
I can only conclude that you do not feel that I should have the right to make choices that you do not like. Interesting.