Over on The Spearhead, the regulars are discussing the three young men who sacrificed their own lives to save their girlfriends in the chaos of the Aurora theater shootings.
Needless to say, many of them aren’t too keen on any act of heroism that might benefit a woman.
Here are the two highest-rated comments in the comment thread. (I have bolded some of the more egregious stuff.)
Young Guy writes:
Sacrifice was once expected of men and women, but it has only been expected of men since the social contract between men and women was torn up by feminists. Most women have been told their entire lives they can have it all, and their happiness is the most important thing in the universe, so most women hate the thought of having to give up anything or putting other people before themselves. Most relationships today are one-sided, so don’t be shocked when men shun marriage or take up pumping and dumping. That might sound harsh to some people, but most women did it to themselves.
Why should I give every ounce of my being for a woman when she is one bad mood away from tossing me onto the scrap heap? I have heard the horror stories from men who worked hard to provide for their families, only for it to mean nothing to their ungrateful ex-wives. I have seen men risk life and limb to protect women they loved, only to have the women in their lives leave them or forget about their sacrifices. It has been said men have obligations while women have options in our modern world, I and agree with that statement. Most women think the world is their oyster, and everyone should cater to them. Most men understand the world is a harsh place, and no one is going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Most women have done an excellent job pissing away all the goodwill men had towards them. I look at women my age, and I realize almost none of them are relationship material. Their entitlement is through the roof. They almost never say “thank you.” They demand chivalry even though they think they should never have to return the favor. They have been told any man who stands up for himself is guilty of abuse. It really is too much to ask of most women to be pleasant, keep the house clean, take care of the kids, and realize a relationship isn’t the Disney fairy-tale which they have been brainwashed with since birth.
Nietzsche (presumably not the ghost of the real Nietzsche) is a bit more concise:
They saved their lives so the girlfriends can be screwing other dudes in several months time…….. probably much less. Heroism is a suckers game.
These two comments each got nearly two dozen upvotes, even though the thread is still young.
Some other highlights of the thread:
Peter South agrees with Nietzsche’s assessment, but expects the girlfriends to move on even more quickly:
These young women will don black for the rest of their lives to mourn and commemorate the passing of these great fallen heroes.
Well ok they’ll be twittering, texting and yakking on their “smart phones” within a week about other guys…
But I think we can all agree that men generally make great meat shields.
Phil, meanwhile, derides the heroes as “suckers.”
Those boyfriends were suckers. These men were living in the past. The boyfriends were living in the 1700′s while modern day American women are living in feminist 2012. Modern day American women don’t live by the old social contract. The problem is men like these three don’t understand. These women will find new boyfriends and move on with their lives. The three men are dead. Gone forever. They died believing is something that doesn’t exist. It is tragic and disgusting.
Eric adds:
the grrlz who survived are probably moving on to the next cock even as we speak. And I’ll bet the types of guys they’re moving on to won’t be the type who’d take a bullet for them either.
Meanwhile, the lowest-rated comment in the thread, with more than two dozen downvotes and only 6 upvotes, is a comment from Georice81 praising the heroes, which starts off with:
The Bible says that there is no Greater Love than when a man gives up his life so that another man may live. I believe in this no matter what anyone may say, MRA or Feminist.
What these men did was heroic and defines what a true man should be. It isn’t a question of being a white knight. It is a question of being a brave man and a true man at that.
I guess the Spearheaders are only fans of traditionalism when it benefits them personally.
So Wil, you were beat up by three woman and your gay?
Sorry man but those MRA types don’t want you. You don’t meet their definition of a “man”
Go read up on feminism, you’ll discover that its evolved to address the concerns of society as a whole.
And you know, not pushing for the return of days when you could stone a woman for not obeying you. Or killing gays because the murderers are cowards.
Mm let me rephrase that a little: I’ve never felt the fear of being blamed for being assaulted by someone I trusted, if I know I didn’t do anything wrong. Does not apply to situations where I might actually be at blame of course. For example in couchsurfing stuff like no expectations of anything sexual is the default mindset and agreement between the host and the surfer, and it’s usually reaffirmed when “booking” a couch, at least I do that so there is no room for misunderstandings. And I’ve never had any problems even with Italian guys, who have a rep of having hard time taking a no for a no.
I guess where I’m from women are mostly beyond this kind of fear, and mostly stand on equal footing with men because also men don’t tend to expect sex unless specifically promised. We also don’t have a lot of false rape claims, there is a stigma to that sort of thing. It’s for people who cause drama for the sake of drama. I guess it’s also because young women do not get slut-shamed so much either, so the minuscule reason of “regretting sex with someone” is out of question except as a thing to bitch about to one’s friends.
Varpole: “And in addition to free bodyguard service, it compels men to serve and please women in a hundred other smaller ways, like a combination driver, butler and all-purpose glorified servant.”
Compels? Really? What sanctions do “men” face if they don’t do these things?
What driving force makes it impossible for men to not do these things.
How are they compelled to be a servant, much less an “all purpose one”? Does he bring her a cocktail when she gets home from a hard day at work?
Does he make supper when he gets home, because she’s been working on the house and the yard? Does he do the dishes?
No.
Really, you could fix a lot of these problems. There are courses in english at community colleges, quite affordable for an urban professional, or you could just add one to next quarter’s classes in your program.
@eline
I’m sorry, what country did you say you were from?
@Howard
Finland, although expatting in Holland. I mentioned it somewhere but probably it is a while ago. Finland along with Sweden are countries where feminism has been pretty much institutionalised to the benefit of both genders (they’re pushing for a lot of paternity rights expansions now, such as shared parental leave). That’s why I find it so educating to compare my experiences to those from the US for example. It’s like from another planet at times. Though don’t get me wrong, it’s still not a “feminist utopia”, we still got the old wage problem for example!
Shadow —
Did they actually say what country Bane was from? I thought it was just sort of Generic Exotic Location with vaguely Hindu tones (and as an architecture nerd, I immediately recognized the shooting location and therefore mentally filed it as happening in India), and Wikipedia at least claims his accent is partially based on a Caribbean one and partly on a particular boxer. If anything, my disappointment was in the way the everyman Occupier-types were the baddies and all the cops were unquestionably Good (if occasionally incompetent). But there were also a lot of details in the movie that I missed, so I’m curious.
I can’t imagine how a hiring or a promotion gap might have anything to do with that ever, nor can I possibly see how being taken more seriously on its own would ever help as a lawyer. Do you? Granted, given your incoherence, I slightly doubt your story, but only slightly.
What makes you think every feminist or woman is straight, bucko?
Said without irony.
Your story has shit to do with societal privilege, dude.
I’ll just bet, dude; nobody asked.
Those statistics were derived by looking at charges that were dropped after the police pressured the victims, so… no.
No, I’m good.
Having spoken to swedish dudes, I would never have known. I’ve had more than one Swedish dude specifically tell me “Sorry, I seriously thought I was an enlightened modern man, but I was wrong, you showed me where I was seriously fucking up”.
I’m sure they’re better in general, but I have difficulty believing that there’s not victim blaming in Sweden, given that this was the exact thing I had to shout at two of them for.
Wil: Can you tell me my prvilege ? I am lacking 1700 state and federal rights and am the most beatn, killed and discriminated America according to The Southern Poverty Law Center, uh, your the one that has the privilege, I think you need to rethink that one. The diffenrce betwenn people like me and feminist I don’t whine.
Except for the times you do.
RHW: What, you think we ought to be accepting and concerned about the ideas of the MRM, because some of them are damaged people?
It’s not the people, qua people, we are mocking (though some come in for mockery, because they are mockworthy). Not telling someone they are full of shit (as you are full of shit) is not the way to get them to dump the shit.
Are you seriously arguing the majority of the MRM is people with mental health issues?
And then accusing us of being the douchebags and assholes?
No, you aren’t “not really” (and a wink is as good as a nod), no, you are concern trolling. Someone, somewhere, might be hurt by what we say; if they come here, so we need to not risk offending them, lest we do them some damage.
In the meanwhile we ought to ignore the damage they are doing (or claim to want to do) lest we hurt dere widdew -fee-fees, because they aren’t the big strong men they tell us they are.
In short you are trying to concern troll us; telling is the poor miserable men of the MRM are more important than we are.
Can you spot the middle ground between kid gloves and antagonistic ridicule? It’s there, believe me, it exists!
We know it does, and a lot of it goes on here. When someone says something reasonable we (with a few exceptions for provably egregious cases (Meller, NWO, Ruby, Brandon) we ignore the unreasonable things they say. The people you are making excuses for, asking us to tone down our mockery of, don’t do that.
So, assuming, arguendo, that we were to dial it back, remove the, “antagonistic ridicule”, what shall our appeasing behavior get us? Cui bono? Will the MRM be more willing to look at the issues rationally? Or will it be more rantings about what cunts and bitches feminists and manginas are?
Who thinks wil isn’t a lawyer, much one at a big firm doing lots of LGBT work?
I find it hard to credit the level of wilfully obtuse language in his assertion that “hard on for straight men” was meant to say he was all for banging them.
All the rest of the little ticky-boxes (he was in the AF, dates for months in public before getting intimate; and does background checks, never even hit on anyone, etc.) are just too precious.
I’ll say I wouldn’t mind knowing where all these people willing to date for months before getting intimate are. Sounds like an Aces dream!
Pecunium,
I am not concern trolling, because I am not concerned with the MRAs.
My sole and only contention at the beginning was that pointing and laughing makes you a dick, and that many of the MRM probably have mental health issues. This was less prompted by love of MRAs than it was my dislike of the self-righteous manboobz circle-jerk.
I also think both of those simple points are pretty much unrefuted. Virtually everything else after them is me addressing people who are deliberately misreading me, or are snarking at me, or are generally at a highschool level of brain drool.
Just two points really:
“In the meanwhile we ought to ignore the damage they are doing (or claim to want to do) lest we hurt dere widdew -fee-fees”
lol. Didn’t say ignore them…now did I?
“So, assuming, arguendo, that we were to dial it back, remove the, “antagonistic ridicule”, what shall our appeasing behavior get us? Cui bono? ”
Haha, you’ll gain about as much as you gain by ridiculing them, which is nothing, unless you value malicious satisfaction, because you gain little else from this approach. You are not going to dissuade your targets from their assholery (I daresay you’ll help entrench some of them in it), and you could highlight them in other ways, but all this you know well enough.
I suppose if you’re a moral person it’s not really a question of “what do I gain?”, but rather “how should I act”? Although I’m not especially moral, I really just find the pseudo-morality of the circle jerk here pukeworthy on some level.
I’m not sure what I hoped to gain by commenting to the famously moronic boobers. Sometimes you just see something irritating and feel compelled to comment, even when it’s against your best interests.
“Pointing and laughing makes you a dick, but internet diagnoses are the height of politeness!”
In the Western world, male privilege doesn’t exist in any significant form, notwithstanding Boobzland’s delusions. Wil, thanks for the support. You’re a damn good man.
Invincible. Totally invincible.
Wil: I am a white woman in America. Being a white woman, I have the privilege of walking down the street and never being viewed as a criminal or a threat to anyone else on the street (the downside of this being that as a non-threat I am also viewed by certain people as a potential crime victim).
I have the privilege of not being shot by police the morning that I arrived to work not knowing that our silent alarm had been triggered and that police were currently present in the building looking for an intruder. When the police saw me, I had the privilege of being believed when I, as a white woman, assured them that I belonged there and that I had not triggered the alarm (which had gone off a half hour before I arrived in the building). I know that I would have been viewed extremely differently by those police if I had been anything other than a white woman that morning.
The difference between myself and you is that I’m willing to acknowledge the privilege that I do have. I don’t immediately get defensive and think that people are accusing me of being a bad person when they mention that I have privilege.
And finally, for NWO and Steele’s benefit, here is another heroic woman in the news recently. Now, they’re just going to poo-poo this, because she was being heroic to save her child, so for some reason that is different than being heroic to save your girlfriend, because BLAHBLAHBLAH…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178093/Ice-pick-hostage-drama-Boy-held-hostage-hours-Quezon-City-Philippines.html
@Rutee
Oh, there is still room for improvement for sure. But the general public attitude is that victims should not be blamed, although there are degrees of adherence to that. A street rape, no matter how drunk the victim was, does get more condemnation than a rape that happened after inviting someone in. And there are voices that blame the victim for various reasons. But it’s not acceptable and is condemned by the majority, which I feel is a major difference to, for example, what I read here from people’s stories. Consent is a big thing. In my circle of friends and friends of friends I’ve not heard of a man (or a woman) forcing themselves on someone even on a one night stand if the other changed their mind. Doesn’t mean it never happens, but given the tendency of young Finns to engage in free sex (mixed with booze) I think it happens less than in many other places. But in this sense a lot of the western and northern Europe is quite progressive.
I know that I would have been viewed extremely differently by those police if I had been anything other than a white woman that morning.
You know, I’m not convinced. I don’t deny the existence of racism, but I also think there’s a lot of projection and paranoia here. I don’t think racism is at the level being postulated by the hysterical regulars here. I actually don’t think it’s even really that bad.
@Jawnita
I was referring to the Bedouin type garb, and I also distinctly remember seeing Arabic writing. I’ll be catching it again so I’ll keep an eye out to confirm, but that’s the way I remember it. Also, like I said, while they didn’t specify a country, I think the scenery they chose, combined with everything else, was supposed to bring to mind a Middle Eastern or North African country. Bane is originally supposed to be from South America, which is why I was pissed off about the makeover, so I would love to be wrong about this.
@Pecunium
Actually, I can see someone not being familiar with the phrase “hard on for”. Combine that with not being familiar the TM meme (something I myself only discovered a year or so ago) and I can understand him misreading my comment, which is why I apologised
You don’t say!! And, as a white urban professional, you’re clearly a better judge of racism than us hysterical, coloured folk!! Forgive me sir, I have clearly erred, and shall defer to your judgement henceforth
Thank you for perfectly illustrating white privilege. You don’t think it’s bad because you do not experience it.
The story that really crystalized the issue for me was told by Jesse at Pandagon. I’m paraphrasing, but when he was 12 years old, his mother was speeding to make a dentist appointment on time. They pulled up, and he got out of the car. A police car pulled up behind them — lights off. A policewoman jumped out, DREW HER GUN ON HIM and demanded that he return to the car. He did, and she had the nerve to chastize him and tell him, “That’s how you get shot.” A twelve year old kid just getting out of the car to make his dentist appointment. The cop didn’t have her lights on, and his mother had absolutely no reason to think she was being pulled over for any reason.
Now you fucking tell me that had nothing to do with the color of his skin.
More pay isn’t significant? Better hiring, promotion, odds aren’t significant?
Not being dismissed by society at large isn’t significant? Not being reduced to sexual satisfaction isn’t significant? Not being trained to be passive isn’t significant? Having social rules advantage you as a rule isn’t significant?
Also, still waiting on how men are marginalized, Steelepole.
Said by a white man who claims white men are put upon, who has no appreciation of irony whatsoever.
Let me go ahead and cut you off here. Yes, you do. You are pretending it isn’t a thing so you can mock the people here.
WEll, it’s not for white people.
Shadow–
Ah yeah, makes sense. And, of course, even if it were just Generic Exotic Location, that’s not any more culturally sensitive.
WAAAAAAH, THEY TWEAKIN’ MAH PRIVILEGE