Over on The Spearhead, the regulars are discussing the three young men who sacrificed their own lives to save their girlfriends in the chaos of the Aurora theater shootings.
Needless to say, many of them aren’t too keen on any act of heroism that might benefit a woman.
Here are the two highest-rated comments in the comment thread. (I have bolded some of the more egregious stuff.)
Young Guy writes:
Sacrifice was once expected of men and women, but it has only been expected of men since the social contract between men and women was torn up by feminists. Most women have been told their entire lives they can have it all, and their happiness is the most important thing in the universe, so most women hate the thought of having to give up anything or putting other people before themselves. Most relationships today are one-sided, so don’t be shocked when men shun marriage or take up pumping and dumping. That might sound harsh to some people, but most women did it to themselves.
Why should I give every ounce of my being for a woman when she is one bad mood away from tossing me onto the scrap heap? I have heard the horror stories from men who worked hard to provide for their families, only for it to mean nothing to their ungrateful ex-wives. I have seen men risk life and limb to protect women they loved, only to have the women in their lives leave them or forget about their sacrifices. It has been said men have obligations while women have options in our modern world, I and agree with that statement. Most women think the world is their oyster, and everyone should cater to them. Most men understand the world is a harsh place, and no one is going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Most women have done an excellent job pissing away all the goodwill men had towards them. I look at women my age, and I realize almost none of them are relationship material. Their entitlement is through the roof. They almost never say “thank you.” They demand chivalry even though they think they should never have to return the favor. They have been told any man who stands up for himself is guilty of abuse. It really is too much to ask of most women to be pleasant, keep the house clean, take care of the kids, and realize a relationship isn’t the Disney fairy-tale which they have been brainwashed with since birth.
Nietzsche (presumably not the ghost of the real Nietzsche) is a bit more concise:
They saved their lives so the girlfriends can be screwing other dudes in several months time…….. probably much less. Heroism is a suckers game.
These two comments each got nearly two dozen upvotes, even though the thread is still young.
Some other highlights of the thread:
Peter South agrees with Nietzsche’s assessment, but expects the girlfriends to move on even more quickly:
These young women will don black for the rest of their lives to mourn and commemorate the passing of these great fallen heroes.
Well ok they’ll be twittering, texting and yakking on their “smart phones” within a week about other guys…
But I think we can all agree that men generally make great meat shields.
Phil, meanwhile, derides the heroes as “suckers.”
Those boyfriends were suckers. These men were living in the past. The boyfriends were living in the 1700′s while modern day American women are living in feminist 2012. Modern day American women don’t live by the old social contract. The problem is men like these three don’t understand. These women will find new boyfriends and move on with their lives. The three men are dead. Gone forever. They died believing is something that doesn’t exist. It is tragic and disgusting.
Eric adds:
the grrlz who survived are probably moving on to the next cock even as we speak. And I’ll bet the types of guys they’re moving on to won’t be the type who’d take a bullet for them either.
Meanwhile, the lowest-rated comment in the thread, with more than two dozen downvotes and only 6 upvotes, is a comment from Georice81 praising the heroes, which starts off with:
The Bible says that there is no Greater Love than when a man gives up his life so that another man may live. I believe in this no matter what anyone may say, MRA or Feminist.
What these men did was heroic and defines what a true man should be. It isn’t a question of being a white knight. It is a question of being a brave man and a true man at that.
I guess the Spearheaders are only fans of traditionalism when it benefits them personally.
@Bea
“SO MUCH THIS. It astonishes me how much time MRAs spend vilifying feminism for problems created by good old-fashioned heteronormative, patriarchal gender roles, the very thing feminists are trying to fight. I don’t post much, but have been lurking around Manboobz for a long time, and it comes up again and again.”
Patriarchal gender roles? Everywhere? In every diverse culture all throughout recorded history? This play has been played out in some fashion forever. It can’t be socialized everywhere in every culture no matter how secluded thru all time.
Suffice it to say men are great. Instead of trying to find ways to demean men or make into a contest, or some feminist patriarchy nonsense, why not just praise men for being selfless?
—————
@valerienorth
“Women sacrifice their lives all the time for others, it’s called – having babies.”
Again, demeaning an act of courage.
Dying from childbirth is the same as dying from a heart attack. It’s an accident. It isn’t a concious choice to self sacrifice.
Would it kill ya’s to just admit that men do die in self sacrificing situations in massive numbers? And men are just the best damned thing in the world for doing that, and you’re damned right we’re gonna praise them for it. And then just leave it at that. No patriarchy nonsense. No gender role bullshit. No competition shit of women do this or that.
Just, “Men just rock for doing that shit and we just love em to death.” The end.
I think the social conditioning for men to protect women is alive and well. I think the actions of these men were brave and deserve hero status. Three human shields are enough to show that men still are taught this imperative to protect. I’m a little confused by those saying this isn’t so, a cursory glance at the world around will show you most protecting and resultant death of said acts of protection are from men. Is there really that much hate that this can be discounted so easily?
Taking bets on how soon someone mentions the Titanic…
Also, if XXX is aimed at a female audience, that means it’s a feminist site and representative of feminist values, in Slavey’s own private universe.
@Bea:
Muchly agreed. I was also just taking the time to throw in a bit of a disclaimer in case someone took my first post differently than I’d intended. Your reply made me re-read it and realize there are a few things that could be read into it that I hadn’t thought of.
Like a chauffer! Because you know driving the little wifey ( who couldn’t drive without permission from hubby) is so exhausting to do once a week so she can spend hours getting the groceries, picking up drycleaning, buying the family clothes, taking the kids for haircuts, doctors appointments etc on a budget.
Dude, most men back in the day didn’t want their wives spending money on cabs if they had a perfectly good car in the driveway.
And what guy butlers for his own household?
XX Factor, I mean, or whatever Slate calls their ladyblog. I don’t know anyone who actually reads it, since “left-leaning urban feminist” isn’t really their target demographic.
Hey! Steele would be a great writer if it wasn’t for those evil feminists that stopped him from going into the humanities. Criticizing his communication skills is probably just another form of misandry.
All purpose servants in what way Steele?
Last weekend Beloved put some shelves up for me. I’ve cooked numerous meals for him. Should we be keeping score of this?
Free bodyguard service my ass. Most men haven’t thrown a punch since they were in highschool at the latest. Most instances where a bodyguard would be needed, men are just as helpless as the women they are standing next to.
Speaking of women who’ve given their lives for others, there’s Miki Endo, the hero of Minami-Sanriku:
http://www.good.is/post/heroes-hear-the-voice-of-the-young-heroic-woman-who-saved-thousands-of-lives/
And not to whiplash the mood, but:
“And in addition to free bodyguard service, it compels men to serve and please women in a hundred other smaller ways, like a combination driver, butler and all-purpose glorified servant.”
BAHAHAHA, seriously?
NWO, I hope you never accuse David of “cherrypicking” quotes, given that you just very obviously went out of your way to exclude this bit of that article, seeing as it’s the only thing in between the two parts you quoted:
Personally, I think that article is pretty pointless (And I had no idea Hanna Rosin was supposed to be my “darling” – I don’t even know who she is beyond “some journalist.” If that’s enough to earn someone “darling” status, I guess everyone here has a lot of “darlings.”) – but, see, I can say that article seems kind of dumb without deliberately trying to distort what it actually says.
It doesn’t really matter what you have been conditioned to think, because there isn’t a whole lot of thinking going on. What matters is what you are conditioned, or inclined, to do.
Some people step up and some people step back and yet others stand there trying to figure out what is going on.
It happens too fast to decide what you are going to do. You just do.
Oh bawwwwww! / Women are raped and murdered by their male partners everyday! How exactly is this culture “misandrist” when women are more likely to get murdered and raped by men than men themselves? I don’t deny that males are raped but that often when they are young and guess what? They are raped by much stranger men. so, nice try with the misandry shit! See? Even Google Chrome doesn’t recognize “misandry” as a word!
I actually agree that there is some gendered socialization that encourages men to protect women and even sacrifice their lives for the women they love if need be. This is NOT the only reason a man would protect a woman (I still think the biggest reason, far more powerful than socialization, is out of love) and it doesn’t mean that women can’t be heroic. But it is there. And with the exception of mothers dying to protect their male children, women dying to protect men is comparatively rarer compared to men dying to protect women or people of either gender dying to protect a same-gender friend. Which is not to say it doesn’t or can’t or will never happen, just that it’s generally rarer.
The thing is, that’s not because men are expected to be “servants.” In fact, on a day-to-day basis, it’s WOMEN and not men who are expected to take a servile position towards their male significant others. Women are expected to cook, clean, agree with everything their male partner says and prop up his ego constantly, have sex on demand whenever he wants it however he wants it, and do all of this without complaint. Indeed, this is how women are expected to “earn” men’s protection. I know far more men who expect their girlfriend to be a combination mommy/maid than I do women who expect a butler. The traditionalist deal (where these socializations come from) is that women spend all their time catering to their boyfriend or husband, and he in turn provides for her financially and protects her physically, even to the point of giving up his life for hers if need be.
The problem with MRA’s is they want one half of this deal, where the woman perpetually caters to the man without complaint, without the other half of the deal, which demands they be women’s protectors in exchange for that. In my experience, women who think it’s men’s job to protect and financially support them also tend to believe that it’s THEIR job to be a domestic servant and let their man have his way on day-to-day matters. Feminists and other women who don’t think they should be domestic servants also do not tend to think that it’s not men’s job to protect them or support them. Occasionally you run into someone who calls herself a “feminist” but still wants a man to be chivalrous and take care of her financial needs; such women are rare though, which is why they’re notable.
In any case, what happened at that Aurora theatre was a tragedy, and everyone who gave or risked their lives for someone else,male or female,is a hero.
*snort*
All of this is hilarious, but I particularly love “all-purpose glorified servant,” since that would appear to mean “person who sometimes does assorted household chores, but is not a servant.” Or in other words, “ordinary member of household, excluding only babies and adults who act like babies.”
Being expected to do the dishes sometimes is MISANDRY, you guys!
(Also, the “butler” silliness means you now have me picturing my partner and I as Jeeves and Wooster, which is a pretty damn funny image, so thanks for that.)
Taking out the trash is misandry, if a man does it, or a woman asks him to do it. Driving your partner somewhere is also misandry. Driving the kids to soccer practise? Wait, Steele probably thinks the little tykes drive themselves.
‘I’m merely stating a fact. It’s not a coincidence that three men died protecting women, and you know it [unless you also rea about the women who protected men or the men who didn’t protect women. Then it just might be!]’
No, no, it’s not a coincidence that these are the three cases misogynists are focusing on. The same bunch that had a problem with that woman who was ‘saved’ from getting hit by a ca by Ryan Gos,ing, then had the gall to suggest it wasn’t that big of a deal and people should focus on other issues.
My god. your kind can barely get over holding doors open for people (still it comes up, all the time!).
how come when you post your observations, it’s ‘merely a fact’ but when anyone else does it it’s always either ‘delusion’ ‘ideology’ or ‘VILE HATE SCUMBAGS’
do you not get the relationship between that sort of shit and your very obvious sense of entitlement?
Yes, probably. As would any man whose wife or girlfriend died. It would be unreasonable to expect otherwise. Just because your significant other dies, it doesn’t mean that you have to stop living, too.
Husbands being chauffeurs for their wives can be a negative for the wives, too. Among my mother’s female friends, a lot of them hadn’t driven for years; some had even let their driver’s licenses expire. Then when their husbands died before them, they were left not being able to drive.
It might sound minor, but when a person has to deal with a spouse’s death, not being used to driving (or having to get a new license) can be extremely isolating.
In my parents’ case, my mother routinely drove herself to work and to do errands. But once she retired, my father started driving them everywhere, even when my mother preferred driving herself. Part of it was that when my mother’s car died, they didn’t replace it so they only had one car. But my father insisted on driving my mother even to her hair appointment, where he would sit in the car and wait on her. She didn’t understand it, my sisters and I didn’t understand it. Maybe he just wanted to get out of the house, but I’m certain my mother didn’t think it was a positive thing.
It’s similar to spouses knowing nothing about their financial affairs and then when their spouses die, they’re left helpless. This happened to my brother-in-law when my sister died. He hadn’t written a check in years and so ended up asking his daughter and me to help him deal with his bills, etc.
(I figure this will be dismissed by the misogynists as, “Poor wives, their husbands die and they have to drive again.”)
These people are monsters. They really are. I can’t get over how cruel they are CONSTANTLY
@Quackers
While I adored the movie, I was PISSED THE FUCK OFF that they turned Bane into OMG MUSLIM TERRORIST COMING FROM OMG WORST, BARBARIC ISLAMIC COUNTRY EVERRR. Seriously Nolan, WTF?
As for the OP, they almost managed to clear that ground level bar I have for MRAs.So close.
I keep thinking about all the little ways that my boyfriend and I “protect” and look out for each other (I am female, BTW). I have a bad back, so if we’re out and about, he’ll ask me if I’m in pain and need to rest a minute. He’s a diabetic, so I cook almost all our meals to conform to his dietary needs and pack his lunch every day. We love each other, so we take care of each other. We’re a team. I wish these MRAs would understand that this is the goal of feminism, not to “put women on top,” but to make relationships egalitarian so that nobody’s being dominated or controlled. Feminists have never wanted men to play the white knight–that deprives women of agency.
What I see here in these MRA writings is a weird combination of resentment at the obligations that the old gender roles put on men (being a “white knight”), plus resentment that they don’t have the privileges afforded to them by those same gender roles (women aren’t submissive) AND resentment that the new gender norms involve certain obligations (if you have sex with a woman and she gets pregnant, you have to pay child support). In their minds, apparently, all this is women’s fault, which shows how little they understand about feminism.