Over on The Spearhead, the regulars are discussing the three young men who sacrificed their own lives to save their girlfriends in the chaos of the Aurora theater shootings.
Needless to say, many of them aren’t too keen on any act of heroism that might benefit a woman.
Here are the two highest-rated comments in the comment thread. (I have bolded some of the more egregious stuff.)
Young Guy writes:
Sacrifice was once expected of men and women, but it has only been expected of men since the social contract between men and women was torn up by feminists. Most women have been told their entire lives they can have it all, and their happiness is the most important thing in the universe, so most women hate the thought of having to give up anything or putting other people before themselves. Most relationships today are one-sided, so don’t be shocked when men shun marriage or take up pumping and dumping. That might sound harsh to some people, but most women did it to themselves.
Why should I give every ounce of my being for a woman when she is one bad mood away from tossing me onto the scrap heap? I have heard the horror stories from men who worked hard to provide for their families, only for it to mean nothing to their ungrateful ex-wives. I have seen men risk life and limb to protect women they loved, only to have the women in their lives leave them or forget about their sacrifices. It has been said men have obligations while women have options in our modern world, I and agree with that statement. Most women think the world is their oyster, and everyone should cater to them. Most men understand the world is a harsh place, and no one is going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Most women have done an excellent job pissing away all the goodwill men had towards them. I look at women my age, and I realize almost none of them are relationship material. Their entitlement is through the roof. They almost never say “thank you.” They demand chivalry even though they think they should never have to return the favor. They have been told any man who stands up for himself is guilty of abuse. It really is too much to ask of most women to be pleasant, keep the house clean, take care of the kids, and realize a relationship isn’t the Disney fairy-tale which they have been brainwashed with since birth.
Nietzsche (presumably not the ghost of the real Nietzsche) is a bit more concise:
They saved their lives so the girlfriends can be screwing other dudes in several months time…….. probably much less. Heroism is a suckers game.
These two comments each got nearly two dozen upvotes, even though the thread is still young.
Some other highlights of the thread:
Peter South agrees with Nietzsche’s assessment, but expects the girlfriends to move on even more quickly:
These young women will don black for the rest of their lives to mourn and commemorate the passing of these great fallen heroes.
Well ok they’ll be twittering, texting and yakking on their “smart phones” within a week about other guys…
But I think we can all agree that men generally make great meat shields.
Phil, meanwhile, derides the heroes as “suckers.”
Those boyfriends were suckers. These men were living in the past. The boyfriends were living in the 1700′s while modern day American women are living in feminist 2012. Modern day American women don’t live by the old social contract. The problem is men like these three don’t understand. These women will find new boyfriends and move on with their lives. The three men are dead. Gone forever. They died believing is something that doesn’t exist. It is tragic and disgusting.
Eric adds:
the grrlz who survived are probably moving on to the next cock even as we speak. And I’ll bet the types of guys they’re moving on to won’t be the type who’d take a bullet for them either.
Meanwhile, the lowest-rated comment in the thread, with more than two dozen downvotes and only 6 upvotes, is a comment from Georice81 praising the heroes, which starts off with:
The Bible says that there is no Greater Love than when a man gives up his life so that another man may live. I believe in this no matter what anyone may say, MRA or Feminist.
What these men did was heroic and defines what a true man should be. It isn’t a question of being a white knight. It is a question of being a brave man and a true man at that.
I guess the Spearheaders are only fans of traditionalism when it benefits them personally.
You want to know what I think about this story, and these “heroes”
How much do you really know about what they were doing, and whom they were protecting?
We only have their girlfriend’s words on why and how these men died.
We can’t go in and examine a dead man’s head to really see what was behind their actions.
If there’s any “gendering” going on, it’s the idea that men “should” go and die for their girlfriends.
Honestly, die for whatever you want. There’s an infinite amount of things to die for, and we as species are just getting started on it.
MRAs talking about the alleged feminist view of men: “Contrary to what feminists say, men have done all sorts of noble, sacrificial things throughout history.”
MRAs talking about men doing noble, sacrificial things: “suckers don’t even get pussy”
Naturally I expect to see a vigorous and protracted debate in the MRM about this discrepancy.*
*lol not really
Oh my gosh, puppy buddies, that football is almost as big as you are!
It’s a no-win setup. If men defend women, this proves how noble men are. If men don’t defend women, this proves how women don’t deserve it.
(If women defend others, LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU.)
That’s exactly right. Those men are heroes, and their loved ones deserve respect and compassion. I can’t imagine they pain they must be going through.
I agree. That would be very hurtful for them to know the terrible things the MRA’s are saying about the men they lost. Sometimes the MRA’s remind me of the Westboro Baptist Church in the way they gloat about other peoples’ misfortunes.
Steele, why do I know of so many moms who have died saving their children then? What about the woman at the cell phone store that died saving customers in the Joplin tornado? Self sacrifice is something that both men and women do, so please stop trying to make into a reason to bash women.
@Naira:
Funny, I thought it was feminism trying to deconstruct the gender norms such that people aren’t socialized to such radically different sets of character traits and trying to highlight the genderlessness of all sorts of qualities, both good and bad.
SO MUCH THIS. It astonishes me how much time MRAs spend vilifying feminism for problems created by good old-fashioned heteronormative, patriarchal gender roles, the very thing feminists are trying to fight. I don’t post much, but have been lurking around Manboobz for a long time, and it comes up again and again.
@Bea:
As someone already said, we can’t know what was going on the minds of those men. I just want to make it clear that I am not saying they were or were not socialized to believe that men should give up their lives for women and not the reverse.
But, even if they were, that’s something feminists are working to deconstruct.
To that point, that’s exactly why I don’t give the MRA any credit for their stated goals. The goals and whining about oppression are just the excuse to hate women and justify a persecution complex. If they really wanted to achieve anything, the overarching philosophy of feminism would not be so abhorrent. Maybe disagreements on the best way to get things done, but nothing like the seething they do.
——————–
Honestly, when it comes to dying for another person, I’ve more often seen it portrayed as a rare ability in anyone, not just the sole domain of one gender. A few times I’ve seen it portrayed as “natural” for a mother (in particular) to die for her children. But that isn’t generally the strongest message, more that it took courage beyond the norm to do it.
Wow. They’re approaching Westboro Baptist Church territory here. As in, regular people should have been worried all along, but now even bigots are going to start distancing themselves.
‘ Most women have been told their entire lives they can have it all’
This is it, isn’t it? They hear the marketing aimed at little girls and women and assume it’s all fai accomplish. Instead of considering, you know, that if women were really totally confident and equal and having a ball, they wouldn’t need a diet pill maker or lipstick brand to remind them.
Damn Western women. So spoiled they won’t even throw themselves on their dead boyfriends’ funeral pyre.
Women sacrifice their lives all the time for others, it’s called – having babies.
I guess MRA’s still believe in storks.
These men did an incredible thing by saving another life and I have nothing but respect for them. Shame on the MRA’s.
That us fait accompli, via Autocorrect.
What’s more is that women were told they could “have t all”, but in order to have that, we also have to do it all. There are a few articles about how middleclass families split chores and childcare, but mostly the articles are about upping the standards or child rearing, housecleaning, entertaining, providing extracuricular activities, all while also keeping up with high power careers that require twelve hour days and an on call status. And who is called on to take care of this? Women, men are rarely if ever mentioned.
I don’t think it is fair to vilify the man who ran away, it is not an easy situation and very difficult for people who will often behave on instinct. The men who gave their lives for their girlfriends were brave, generous and caring people and it is horrible anyone had to die. I don’t think it should be the norm, and I have dated people who’d have saved me, and people who’d have run away leaving me to die. However, what is so bad about the fact that one of the women who survived due to this was more educated than the man who gave his life for her? It is tragic he died, and it was a horrible decision to have to make, but why does the fact his girlfriend was more educated than him make his decision different from if she wasn’t?
And if James Holmes hadn’t been there with three guns and thousands of bullets, none of those people would be shot today. But how terrible of me to point out the central facet of this chivalric code entails men protecting their women from other violent men.
Sorry, that last post was in response to major udder fondlers favorite “entitled princess” rant.
Yes Slavey, if I’m fucking working my ass off for it I am entitled to have it all.
Steele, why do I know of so many moms who have died saving their children then?
This is obviously the one cultural exception; mothers are expected to protect their children.
Self sacrifice is something that both men and women do, so please stop trying to make into a reason to bash women.
I’m merely stating a fact. It’s not a coincidence that three men died protecting women, and you know it. It’s not “bashing women” to acknowledge the fact that men are expected to be more self-sacrificial. Unless you consider questioning the aforementioned male privilege fetish/misandrist/male evil/male Original Sin apple cart to be “bashing women”.
the central facet of this chivalric code entails men protecting their women from other violent men.
No, not really- it involves men protecting women from any and all danger.
How does one question an apple cart, exactly?
Pear Tree, I’m inclined to agree with you, the guy panicked like so many others. To single him out is rather unfair.
The reason that her being more educated is being focused on is because its a stick to beat feminists with. If we “really” believed in equality, than wed be throwing our lives in danger for the men too, instead of just taking their jobs.
@Naira: As someone already said, we can’t know what was going on the minds of those men. I just want to make it clear that I am not saying they were or were not socialized to believe that men should give up their lives for women and not the reverse.
Oh, no, I totally got that, and I completely agree. We have no way of knowing exactly why they did what they did. What I meant was, even if socialization did play a part, it does not erase the bravery it took for them to put a loved one’s safety before their own. We can’t know if there was some cultural influence at play here. Even if there was, we are all influenced by culture and we all still have agency and make choices. These men chose to save their loved ones (as did a few women) and whatever their reasons were, they deserve to be remembered respectfully.
Whether or not there was a men = protectors/women = protected thing going on here, that concept is not one feminism invented or generally reinforces.
To clarify my position upon the issue, I of course find these young men to be heroes. I expect their girlfriends feel the same way. I’m merely speaking to the larger misandrist cultural framework that logically leads to this kind of thing more often than the reverse. Obviously the consequences of said misandrist framework are usually not death. But the framework hurts a large majority of men in a thousand smaller ways- this is what’s known as “systematic”.
Steele, chivalry never applied to the vast majority of women…ever. Chivalry was only ever applied to noble born women, and nobility was vanishingly small. Working class folks never took it up.
Er, to clarify my last post — I mean I don’t see feminists insisting men should protect women and women should not protect men. As far as I can tell, these MRAs have pulled that directly out of their asses.
the central facet of this chivalric code entails men protecting their women from other violent men.
And in addition to free bodyguard service, it compels men to serve and please women in a hundred other smaller ways, like a combination driver, butler and all-purpose glorified servant.
And WHOOSH, there goes the point, right over your head. If James Holmes, a man, had not been shooting everyone, no one in that theater would have been asked to make any sort of sacrifice whatsoever. But I’m sure you and NWO will find a way to show us how women are to blame for that point, as well.
From the Slate article Slavey was quoting:
None of these life details are meant to detract from the men’s heroism. They are only meant to make it more poignant, and even beautiful.
Yeah, she’s just a vile feminist who hates men all right. Reading is fundamental, Slavey.