Over on The Spearhead, the regulars are discussing the three young men who sacrificed their own lives to save their girlfriends in the chaos of the Aurora theater shootings.
Needless to say, many of them aren’t too keen on any act of heroism that might benefit a woman.
Here are the two highest-rated comments in the comment thread. (I have bolded some of the more egregious stuff.)
Young Guy writes:
Sacrifice was once expected of men and women, but it has only been expected of men since the social contract between men and women was torn up by feminists. Most women have been told their entire lives they can have it all, and their happiness is the most important thing in the universe, so most women hate the thought of having to give up anything or putting other people before themselves. Most relationships today are one-sided, so don’t be shocked when men shun marriage or take up pumping and dumping. That might sound harsh to some people, but most women did it to themselves.
Why should I give every ounce of my being for a woman when she is one bad mood away from tossing me onto the scrap heap? I have heard the horror stories from men who worked hard to provide for their families, only for it to mean nothing to their ungrateful ex-wives. I have seen men risk life and limb to protect women they loved, only to have the women in their lives leave them or forget about their sacrifices. It has been said men have obligations while women have options in our modern world, I and agree with that statement. Most women think the world is their oyster, and everyone should cater to them. Most men understand the world is a harsh place, and no one is going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Most women have done an excellent job pissing away all the goodwill men had towards them. I look at women my age, and I realize almost none of them are relationship material. Their entitlement is through the roof. They almost never say “thank you.” They demand chivalry even though they think they should never have to return the favor. They have been told any man who stands up for himself is guilty of abuse. It really is too much to ask of most women to be pleasant, keep the house clean, take care of the kids, and realize a relationship isn’t the Disney fairy-tale which they have been brainwashed with since birth.
Nietzsche (presumably not the ghost of the real Nietzsche) is a bit more concise:
They saved their lives so the girlfriends can be screwing other dudes in several months time…….. probably much less. Heroism is a suckers game.
These two comments each got nearly two dozen upvotes, even though the thread is still young.
Some other highlights of the thread:
Peter South agrees with Nietzsche’s assessment, but expects the girlfriends to move on even more quickly:
These young women will don black for the rest of their lives to mourn and commemorate the passing of these great fallen heroes.
Well ok they’ll be twittering, texting and yakking on their “smart phones” within a week about other guys…
But I think we can all agree that men generally make great meat shields.
Phil, meanwhile, derides the heroes as “suckers.”
Those boyfriends were suckers. These men were living in the past. The boyfriends were living in the 1700′s while modern day American women are living in feminist 2012. Modern day American women don’t live by the old social contract. The problem is men like these three don’t understand. These women will find new boyfriends and move on with their lives. The three men are dead. Gone forever. They died believing is something that doesn’t exist. It is tragic and disgusting.
Eric adds:
the grrlz who survived are probably moving on to the next cock even as we speak. And I’ll bet the types of guys they’re moving on to won’t be the type who’d take a bullet for them either.
Meanwhile, the lowest-rated comment in the thread, with more than two dozen downvotes and only 6 upvotes, is a comment from Georice81 praising the heroes, which starts off with:
The Bible says that there is no Greater Love than when a man gives up his life so that another man may live. I believe in this no matter what anyone may say, MRA or Feminist.
What these men did was heroic and defines what a true man should be. It isn’t a question of being a white knight. It is a question of being a brave man and a true man at that.
I guess the Spearheaders are only fans of traditionalism when it benefits them personally.
I am so glad you did this story, it has been on my mind sice the night it happend , and I was hoping somebody would put this out there., so thank you and I want to say one thing, back in 1996 I was beaten and stabbed eleven times , and lost one eye because I was and am a gay man and guess who came to my rescue ? straight white men ( so the called bullies of the feminist movement) , if it were not for them, I would be dead. . I will always stick up for straight men and am not one of those feminist flockers that other gay men support.
The statement, “These women will find new boyfriends and move on with their lives.” is presented as a bad thing. The commenters seem to think a person’s romantic life should end forever if they suffer the death of a partner. It seems like a very sad viewpoint to take.
Eventually yes-they will move on. Most people do not do what Queen Victoria did (and even then it was rumored she had a paramour in Mr. Brown after her beloved Alfred died) and spend the rest of their life in seclusion out of mourning their lost loved one.
Are they supposed to renounce romance love forever? I doubt that is what these men would want for their girlfriends.
Yet if these men had been called “suckers” by anyone else, MRAs would be yelling about misandry.
I was thinking similarly to princessbonbon and Fatman…since when is the grieving cycle a bad thing? I’m idly wondering what these MRAs would think of sati. I’ll file away the thought of how that discussion would go for future nightmares…yeesh.
Good for Georice81, though, in sticking to zir guns on believing that quotation and stating it against popular opinion. I’ve always been a fan of that one too.
Do these idiots realize that men aren’t the only ones to do that type of stuff? My sister used her body as a shield to protect her boyfriend from being stabbed a second time by a disturbed man who crashed her friend’s BBQ and attacked random people. Those people in the theater didn’t risk their lives out of a sense of obligation but a sense of love… Not that I expect any of those Spearhead losers to understand the concept.
Here’s a woman who risked her life to save another woman in the shooting: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/us/colorado-theater-heroism-obama/index.html
Good people and bad people come in all genders, and crass sexual motivations have nothing to do with this.
Cliff et al, you’re even more deluded than I thought if you think this isn’t gendered. Obviously women can and are heroic, but it is very, very, very rare that you’ll see a reversal of the three examples presented here. Why? A combination of cultural and biological factors. Part of it- not all, but part- is indeed a culture that teaches men to put themselves last and to defend women at their own expense. Obviously these three are heroes. But there are also some larger facts behind it.
I’m sorry if that interferes with your male privilege fetish/misandrist/male Original Sin apple cart.
I can pretty heroically. Today I’m putting up pints of green beans like a boss.
/silly
I think the girlfriends of these guys will never stop thinking about them, even if and when they do eventually find new partners. And that’s exactly how these guys most likely wanted it. You don’t sacrifice your own life so that your loved one would throw away his/her by mourning indefinitely. No, you sacrifice yourself so that the other may keep living, and that means doing all those things that make life worth living. You sacrifice your own life because you love someone and want them to live a long, happy life. Else you would be protecting them for the wrong reasons in the first place. It’s not an insult to a dead partner’s memory to find someone new, on the opposite. It means their sacrifice was not in vain. Or can mean, if someone is truly happy without a new relationship that is also ok. But what does make it an insult to the dead person is to waste one’s life living it unhappily.
“a culture that teaches men to put themselves last and to defend women at their own expense.”
Funny, I thought it was feminism trying to deconstruct the gender norms such that people aren’t socialized to such radically different sets of character traits and trying to highlight the genderlessness of all sorts of qualities, both good and bad.
I must’ve dreamed it or something. /sarcasm
I can’t imagine how hurtful it would be to lose a loved one, and then run into one of these MRM posts that minimizes and dismisses the sacrifice that they made.
Reportedly there was a guy in the theatre who left his baby and not only fled but DROVE AWAY, while his girlfriend saved both both of her kids despite a broken leg (arm? Something broken, anyway). I wonder if these dudes would say he made the right call?
I must extend a thought in the previous post a little. “Protecting for the wrong reasons”, with that I refer exclusively to close relationships, friends and relatives. There’s a reason to protect total strangers, too, but I think it’s done with a different motive. I understand that few are willing to risk life for a stranger, and they don’t need to; lesser dedication is enough and smaller actions can still help. But I don’t think we can love someone and defend them while setting conditions for our protection. Such as a condition to devote a life to worship us if we die for them. Unless someone demanded you to give your life for them, you cannot make demands of them if you do choose to give your life for them.
You know what? Maybe there was some gendered socialization at play here, maybe something in these men’s actons did come from the idea that men are supposed to be heroes and protectors — but that doesn’t make it okay for these jerks to be calling them “suckers.” They were still humans, protecting their loved ones, and their actions were still admirable. It’s not cool to shit on their sacrifice.
No one should feel like they have to put their lives on the line for other people, but when someone chooses to do so, that needs to be respected. And yes, women can and do risk themselves to protect loved ones too.
And yeah, +1 to all the comments pointing out how unfair it is to expect the women whose boyfriends died for them to never move on and have other romantic relationships. I doubt the men who died for them would want them to give up living afterward. Yes, these women will probably date and possibly marry in the future. That is normal, and healthy. Right now, they are likely in a lot of pain. I certainly hope that, despite their grief, they will go on to live happy lives.
Does anyone need a kitten video?
I cant recall if it was this thread or somewhere else, but some MRAs don’t have much problem with sacrificing their lives for women ONLY if women renounce equality, feminism and admit their inferiority to men. Yep, women are only worth saving if we go back to being simpering domestic slaves. I think I’ll take my chances with my modern life thanks. When its time to go its time to go.
That being said, I was talking about this with my mom and she aluded that these heroic men’s actions should be the norm. I disagreed. Self sacrifice is nobel and should be treated as such, but it should not be a requirement just for men, especially in modern times. You can certainly argue against this idea that men must sacrifice and agree that cultural influences on masculinity do have these elements. The irony is that The Dark Knight Rises plays heavily on these themes (i don’t want to spoil it for those who have not seen it but it is nothing short of perfection) the downside is that boys and men watch these movies/read comics and might feel like they have to sacrife their lives for respect and love. The upside is that characters like Batman are worshipped and leaves girls and women thinking that their role is not hero, but passive loser that needs saving and who is not capable of saving anyone. I know as a fan of superhero movies and some comic series I feel this way sometimes.
So yeah, this certainly is a topic worth discussing, but since MRAs just want to play gender war I ask them this: what was the sex of the person that did the shooting in the first place?
Please, more kitten videos. Don’t forget puppehs
Cloudiah:
Have you ever seen a cat acting like it is all that and too cool to play? I’m wondering if is because they’re trying to live down the embarrassment of diving head-first into a camera as a kitten and other such cute, but ridiculous behavior.
I think that’s my new theory for feline “puh-LEEZ!” behavior.
These 3 men did what they thought to be the right thing. They should be applauded. They and their girlfriends and families deserve respect.
And before anyone mentions, yes I know there are female superheros, no most of them don’t feel believable when they prance around oozing sex appeal rather than intimidation.
Yes, puppies too (the music on this one is annoying, but the roly poly puppies make up for it):
Here’s an article on slate XX factor, what women really think, by the feminist darling, Hanna Rosin.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/07/23/aurora_dark_knight_shooting_the_men_protected_the_women.html
A few choice exerpts.
“On the Today show interview, Jansen Young, the girlfriend Blunk saved, mentioned that Jonathan was thinking about re-enlisting in the Navy. She attributed that to his undying heroism, but it may also have to do with the fact that he, like a few guys in the theater, was working at Target and surely not making enough money to support one family, much less two. Young, meanwhile, had just finished getting her veterinarian degree, becoming the latest in an onslaught of women who have taken over that lucrative profession, which was not very long ago dominated by men.”
“I’ve found a strained and touching effort to redefine the roles of men. They are often not the breadwinners because in that slice of America, women are often financially better off than the men. They are often not the steady fathers because couples don’t get married all that much anymore, and the women, if they are working themselves, see the men as just another mouth to feed. But one thing I find consistently is the enduring need for men to think of themselves and women to think of them as the protectors.”
Do go read the whole thing. Ahhh, feminism. Just look at the fine creatures modern women have become.
Steele, I’m not going to say that the social conditioning of men giving up their lives isn’t around, but I will say that its not nearly as strong as MRAs would have us believe.
And to see the very group who should have been lauding the three mens sacrifice the most calling them suckers….. Disgusting, just disgusting.
What’s even worse is that the OP wasn’t a bad one. It was the commentors who totally took it off track to piss and moan about themselves, rather than commemorate the bravery of the men who died. The commentors themselves made these guys “expendable” for their cause, pissing on women they don’t even know.
Oh and while you’re reading the article, do have a run thru the comments. Modern women are simply priceless.