In the wake of the shootings in Aurora Colorado, pickup guru Roosh “No Means Yes” Valizedah quipped on Twitter: “I bet $100 the shooter was getting no play.” The implication being: had the shooter been trained in the fine art of “game,” and thus presumably scoring with women, the massacre would never have happened.
There are a few problems, to say the least, with Roosh’s crass comment, one of the most obvious being that training the sort of person who becomes a mass murderer in a set of manipulative techniques of sexual aggression in which a woman’s “no” is treated as “last-minute resistance” seems a little less than wise. Best case scenario? He becomes a serial rapist rather than a mass killer.
The other obvious problem is that it suggests the murders are, in a way, the fault of women for not paying the shooter more attention. The logic here is abuser logic: if you gals don’t put out for awkward nerds, there will be hell to pay, and the blood will be on your hands.
Yesterday, someone calling himself Throwaway72212 brought Roosh’s “meme” to the attention of the Men’s Rights subreddit. His concern? That this kind of “vagina-pedestaling” (!) from pickup artists makes sexually frustrated men look bad; it’s a “virulent form of creep shaming.”
Yeah, really. Apparently the true victims here are “creep-shamed” dudes.
Here’s his whole post, which at the time of this writing had gotten 204 upvotes and 74 downvotes from the r/mensrights masses:
Some highlights – by which I mean lowlights — from the discussion.
TommyGun991 took aim at Big Vagina and what he sees as its enablers in the PUA community:
Leylen decided to attack the hypothetical women sending hypothetical love notes to the shooter:
MauraLoona, meanwhile, found a possible silver lining in all this: Maybe it could be used to argue for the legalization of prostitution!
Men’s Rights Redditors: Always looking at the big picture.
LeftWingFox,
I heard that bit about the Joker as well (and that he had yelled out something about being the joker), and then read elsewhere that that was refuted and he was wearing all black tactical gear with a gas mask (and he didn’t say anything about the joker).
I had also heard (but it might totally just be speculation, it’s not like I have some incredible source) that the theater was possibly chosen just because it was so crowded, dark, and was a scenario that would allow for a greater potential for harm to the people there…along the same lines as what someone said earlier about coordinating the attack to explosions in the film to create confusion….
But I do agree with the sentiments of others that the reporting in this has been terrible. There’s way more opinion and speculation than fact reporting. And because it’s a huge deal on the internet (esp., with the Batman tie in) it seems like every little opinion or piece speculation is flying around the web through tweets, statuses, etc., and then some sites report the rumors as if they were fact. So, yeah, lots of misinformation.
So, Roosh is responsible for the photoshop?
He doesn’t, and that doesn’t invalidate the model, just as the fact that Dalai Lama has been materially supported by a religious organization for his entire life doesn’t generally invalidate the “men* need to work to earn their daily bread” model.
—
* Guess.
@pillowinhell good point. Maybe he was euthanising other male nerds destined like him to suffer and die for lack of pussy?
…I feel dirty just writing that.
I know that when faced with an inexplicable horror people try to interpret it in the light of their belief system. So a Christian will chalk it up to lack of belief in Jesus, a Buddhist to insufficient enlightenment, and. Communist to workers still not controlling the means of production. (I know there aren’t exactly a lot of communists around, but I do know one and.OMG HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME.) So since these dudes immediately jump to Lack of Pussy as the proximate cause of the shooting, I guess that means their primary belief system is “I do not get laid enough and that is not just a bummer but a CRIME WHO DO THESE BITCHES THINK THEY ARE”.
Not *surprising* news.or anything, but you know.
Basta, you are correct on one modality of living does not necessarily invalidate another.
I don’t mind that there are guys who want sex or more of it. I do mind when a small group of men demand that they get sex, act like its absolutely essential to their existence and spew hateful shit about the very people they are demanding sex from.
While everyone has the right to enjoy sex with a partner, no one has the right to demand sex with any one individual.
Garvan said:
No, and I think you’re perfectly aware that I didn’t say that. I don’t think that “game” would have prevented him from killing, so he might well have ended up both a mass killer and a mass rapist. Or he would have tried “game” and gotten frustrated and planned an even more grisly massacre. The best case” scenario I envisioned was just that, what I imagine the best possible case would be. And it would still be horrific.
Kristin, I refuse to speculate. Whatever the reason is that he chose this course of action, it will never compute that he chose to kill a huge group of people who were likely completely unaware of his existence and therefore innocent of any wrongdoing to him.
It might be different if he belonged to a politically or religiously repressed group, but on the surface at least, it doesn’t appear so. Also, in North America, there are other ways of changing the culture and instituions beyond the shock value of killing. Its a slow process and requires a great deal of work and stamina. Especially if the issue you are fighting is entrenched in society. In that case, you may not see significant change in your lifetime.
Sitting here as a fairly privileged person, I can’t imagine what that is like.
I don’t particularly want to speculate either, pillowinhell, I was just trying to follow Roosh’s “logic”, such as it is :-/
The only “logic” to Roosh and others like him is that its a weak attempt to justify their own shitty behavior. With a story like this they can tell the woman they are with “See, I’m treating you better than that!”. Its also a very passive agressive scare tactic they hope will bend women to their wishes.
Annnd over on the Spearhead, the guys are talking about how fast the girlfriends of three men (who died protecting them) will be moving onto the next cock. They are giving it a week.
Some are charitable to say several months, but really the only way these women could commemorate their herioc boyfriends would be to wear mourning and never date again.
Every time I think I’ll need to rage quit the Internet I come here and see reasonable and sensible discussions happening (well, mostly – not counting the obvious exceptions here) and I walk a away feeling a little bit better about everything.
This movie premier is one of the few places a person could go in that particular garb and not be questioned.
Thanks, pilllowinhell, I was expecting this sort of thing from some MRAs, though I thought AVfM would be first. Doing a quick post on this now.
Well, first off, we don’t even know if he was heterosexual.
Secondly, he targeted a random swath of people in an audience, not a single gender, such as a women’s shelter or other place where gendered violence would be a likely motivating factor.
Thirdly, his level of planning and detail would seem to be indicative of someone who was very deliberate and organized, not a hotheaded explosion of rage and revenge.
Fourthly, there is no other evidence that “lack of sex” had anything to do with his actions.
So, MRAs, maybe you should just shut the hell up before you hurt yourselves by trying to do so many complicated mental maneuvers to blame every bad thing on women.
aworldanonymous said:
This is a bit of pedantry, but you’ve incorrectly used the phrase “mutually exclusive”. It means that there is no overlap and there never can be. In this case it would imply that anyone who’s ever been ostracized would never go on to become a murderer and that all murderers had never been ostracized.
Actually, I think the picture he posted on Adult Friend Finder is a pretty good indicator of that.
Apropos of nothing, I just saw an ad on YouTube about a series premier of something called “Alphas” on SyFy.
The tagline was something like, “super, but human.”
My first thought was that, man, but the MRAs would flip their shit.
I was gonna say “you know, aside from a few things, most of that’s not too bad”, but a whole bunch of other people already said it better. Oh, well.
Annnd over on the Spearhead, the guys are talking about how fast the girlfriends of three men (who died protecting them) will be moving onto the next cock. They are giving it a week.
I wonder what the MRAs would say about Stephanie Davis, who helped save the life of her friend, Allie Young?
I’m with Cliff & others in thinking the Throwaway dude actually had some points there. Even if his reasonings are different, I do agree on the points. But I’m glad it was brought up here. Even if Manboobz is mainly about mockery it’s refreshing to read something positivish coming from the MRA crowd and since I don’t do Reddit I would miss it otherwise.
They won’t be happy unless an equal number of women died trying to save their boyfriends.
They will however, talk about how boys are taught to throw their lives away. Not saying that there isn’t some of that, but it was three men out of how many in the theater?j
@ 2-D Man
Thanks for the correction, I wasn’t sure quite which words to use to put what I was trying to say properly.
@2D- being sexually attracted to women does not necessarily mean that you are attracted to women exclusively. He could be bisexual or pansexual. There is no real way of knowing. And his sexuality is a red herring at best.
Howard Stern blamed 9/11 on the terrorists’ probable inability to get laid while they attended US colleges.
I wonder what their thoughts are on the guy who reportedly ditched his baby under a seat and ran while the baby’s mom saved both kids?