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creep-shaming misogyny MRA oppressed men PUA rapey reddit vaginas virginity

In the wake of the tragedy in Aurora, Men’s Rights Redditors take a brave stance against “vagina-pedestaling” and “creep shaming.”

Picture from the AdultFriendFinder profile of James Holmes.

In the wake of the shootings in Aurora Colorado, pickup guru Roosh “No Means Yes” Valizedah quipped on Twitter: “I bet $100 the shooter was getting no play.” The implication being: had the shooter been trained in the fine art of “game,” and thus presumably scoring with women, the massacre would never have happened.

There are a few problems, to say the least, with Roosh’s crass comment, one of the most obvious being that training the sort of person who becomes a mass murderer in a set of manipulative techniques of sexual aggression in which a woman’s “no” is treated as “last-minute resistance” seems a little less than wise. Best case scenario? He becomes a serial rapist rather than a mass killer.

The other obvious problem is that it suggests the murders are, in a way, the fault of women for not paying the shooter more attention. The logic here is abuser logic: if you gals don’t put out for awkward nerds, there will be hell to pay, and the blood will be on your hands.

Yesterday, someone calling himself Throwaway72212 brought Roosh’s “meme” to the attention of the Men’s Rights subreddit. His concern? That this kind of “vagina-pedestaling” (!) from pickup artists makes sexually frustrated men look bad; it’s a “virulent form of creep shaming.”

Yeah, really. Apparently the true victims here are “creep-shamed” dudes.

Here’s his whole post, which at the time of this writing had gotten 204 upvotes and 74 downvotes from the r/mensrights masses:

Some highlights – by which I mean lowlights — from the discussion.

TommyGun991 took aim at Big Vagina and what he sees as its enablers in the PUA community:

Leylen decided to attack the hypothetical women sending hypothetical love notes to the shooter:

MauraLoona, meanwhile, found a possible silver lining in all this: Maybe it could be used to argue for the legalization of prostitution!

Men’s Rights Redditors: Always looking at the big picture.

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Little Mousling (@LittleMousling)

Hmmm, maybe I’ll take that question over to the new post, actually. (My only real response to this post is “possibly there’s no saving humanity,” but I’m sure I’ll recover if I go watch some kitten videos.)

TK
TK
8 years ago

Echoing others in thinking some of the initial poster’s ideas are pretty healthy and on the right track. Bestowing magical powers or salvation-rendering abilities on women’s vaginas is not good for anyone, whatever gender.

Though, to be fair, Genghis Khan aside, MRAs do a pretty good job of perpetuating this myth (hating women and wishing violence whle also lamenting the fact that they can’t get laid. Because western women are dirty sluts. Rinse and repeat.)

jennydevildoll
8 years ago

Yeah, I don’t agree with the framing of this, but I do think he has a point…sexual activity is wonderful, but it’s not a magic cure-all for everything, particularly not the kinds of mental health issues that can include mass murder or literally believing you’re The Joker. This kind of thing is used against both genders (who hasn’t heard some sort of anti-feminist joke about how feminists are are “ugly/can’t get a man/need a good lay” blah blah blah)

Besides, has there been any information in the news about what the guy’s sex life was like? Or were those remarks from the PUA just based on his assumptions?

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

@Falconer

Apropos of nothing, I just saw an ad on YouTube about a series premier of something called “Alphas” on SyFy.

The tagline was something like, “super, but human.”

My first thought was that, man, but the MRAs would flip their shit.

HOLY SHIT, this just happened to me at the pub!!! You have taken to ninjaing me on things based on my offline life!!! I find this new development…. disturbing. ^o)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you’re awake…

Wait, wrong season.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

Wait, wrong season.

Really? I thought he creeped on us 24/7/364.

McDuff
McDuff
8 years ago

@whataboutthemoonz

Re: loser = killer thing

I think people have it backwards. There’s this assumption that if you’re a loner then you’re more likely to be a violent criminal, but if you’re a violent criminal (or so inclined, anyway), then aren’t people less likely to want to spend time with you? Having the potential to be a violent person is a (just one of many) reason why someone might be a loner.

Violent criminals don’t necessarily put friends and loved ones off with their behaviour; unless we’re talking about domestic violence: If their MO is just random, predatorial violence in the community their friends/parters may not even know about it much less be driven away.

I actually believe that societal failure is not the real motivating factor for these spree-killer types, even though the media usually point to some failing in their lives in the months leading up to the event (i.e. James Holmes dropping out of his PhD and being unable to find a good job in spite of his excellent academic record; Cho Seung-Hui being rejected by women etc.). In my opinion the distinguishing feature – which drives these spree killers to mass homicide whereas others in their situation might commit suicide – is that they have a burning, long term rage and sense of wounded pride. When they suffer from failure or loss they see themselves with nothing left to lose, nothing in their life to prevent them from going on the rampage which they had been dreaming of for a long time.

Heck, Ander’s Breivik mentioned in his manifesto that he had stopped looking for a girlfriend shortly before his killing spree because he didn’t want to be distracted from his “mission”.

leftwingfox
8 years ago

TheMcGee:

Yeah, reports at this stage are always pretty conflicted, so it’s a good idea to take anything with a grain of salt. Given that he was taken alive (which is pretty rare) he’ll probably have plenty to say in the coming months.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Sexually frustrated men don’t usually go shooting people. If they did, these kinds of mass shootings would happen every day. As for women being men’s salvation, well, it is a proven fact that married men tend to be healthier, less likely to be alcoholics/drug addicts, than single men. They’re also less likely to commit suicide, and they live longer. That being said, marriage isn’t going to stop an insane man from murdering people.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

Correlation does not imply causation.

Healthier non-addict men are more likely to be married. Oh look, we can just as easily draw the causation that way!

And that misses the rather deeper point that looking at it as ‘women can save men’ is dangerously close to implying women should make an effort to save men.

Also, your comment (and, up until this point, mine) make no mention or apparently consideration of non-heterosexual people; let’s try and avoid erasure of minorities, ‘K?

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

That being said, marriage isn’t going to stop an insane man from murdering people.

Ahhh, but will it stop a sane man? Or are they all just insane because what sane man would do that? Lollity-lollity-loll. Douchebag.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

@MorkaisChosen

I may be mistaken, but I think that’s also a function of the studies available. Because there have been multiple studies done on heterosexual marriage, and overwhelmingly come to the same conclusion, this is common knowledge. Non-heterosexual marriage, OTOH, falls victim to the marginilization of scientific inquiry.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

That’s a fair point.

I’d also be interested in looking at non-married long-lasting relationships, another one that’s less likely to get studied; would imagine much the same results.

Just to check: are you aware of anything in the studies that suggests a causal relationship, as opposed to a correlation, between marriage and health and addictions?

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

It’s been a long time, and I’m not the most critical reader of studies, but IIRC it’s been correlational findings. I don’t really see how you can test for causal relationships though.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

I’m not sure either, but there are people whose job it is to think of clever ways to do that if they can… 😉

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
8 years ago

Oooh, I have anecdata!! I’m sure that’s as good as any silly peer-reviewed study, right?

Anyhow, I co-habitate with a family member. It’s a fairly stable domestic relationship.

Since we began doing so I have found myself looking out for my own health and theirs more often, have found myself more cheerful and optimistic, and have found in general that my quality of life went way up.

What a great anecdote! Clearly, we need do no study, as now we have surely proven that all the benefits of marriage are available in similar-but-not-the-same situations!

Science!

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

Your anecdata is getting in my causal argument and making it go all mouldy. 🙁

pecunium
8 years ago

Morkai: That’s why it’s better to have casual arguments.

Johnny 5aces
Johnny 5aces
8 years ago

If having sex stops mass murder, how come Genghis Khan?

Tom
Tom
7 years ago

I do think that sexual frustration does lead to some of these rampage killings (Virginia Tech, Columbine etc) but it definitely isn’t the main factor as their are TONS of sexually frustrated men and 99.99999 percent of them don’t go on wild killing rampages.

rdght
rdght
7 years ago

This Roosh guy is actually correct. Almost all mass murderers have a few traits in common. First: extreme, grandiose narcissism. Secondly, an obsession with violence, weapons and related media. Finally, almost all of them are extremely unsuccessful in their lives despite coming from a somewhat well-off family, socially, work/wealth and sexually.

Nick
Nick
6 years ago

What exactly is outrageous in the top screenshot again?

name is futile
name is futile
4 years ago

To be honest, this might be the only case where I dont fully agree with you. i.e., I dont find the first post COMPLETELY ridiculous. I mean, he admits women are people! how common is that on that subreddit? Also, he admits that Roosh V is forcing an unhealthy idea of sexuality on men in general, which is, well, true. He is admiting that Roosh V and PUAs in general are the source of the problem. which they are. Maybe its I who got to accostumed to barbarities on the web that something less stupid seems tolerable, but this trully is not the worst thing i’ve seen today. hell, coming from the mens right subrreddit, might be the best.

Booker
4 years ago

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