Yep, that’s right, the “clopping” sound of high heels are a form of “street harassment.” I found the screenshot above on a promising new blog you can find at MensRightsActivism.com. Yep, that’s right. Evidently it never occurred to anyone in the Men’s Rights movement to lock down that domain name.
Oh, this little Reddit screenshot is good too:
How exactly does saying “consent is sexy” mean that male consent is taken for granted? How is it that 59 people thought that comment deserved an upvote?
I can’t answer either question, but there’s lots more hilarious and appalling stuff where that came from, mostly from the Men’s Rights subreddit. It’s going in the “antidotes to boobery” blog roll.
grampmk: “You can refuse to accept the study”
I do pecunium.
We got that. You can refuse to accept Gallileo on acceleration too, but gravity is still the same.
That’s the point, you refusing to accept it doesn’t change the truth of the study. Just refusing to accept it means nothing. If you want anyone else to refuse it, you have to show how it’s wrong.
pecunium stop infringing on gramp’s first amendment rights
pecunium; ” If you want anyone else to refuse it, you have to show how it’s wrong.”
I accept most of it. I can’t get my mind around a man , not a boy, being raped by a woman. I’m not asking you or anyone to change anything. I was only explaining how I felt, nothing more.
grampmk — you seem to be misreading the CDC data. I would guess that what you said about “half of the women in America are being raped by their spouse/boyfriends on a regular basis” was based on this —
That 51~ percent is out of (female) rape victims, not the population as a whole. So you need to combine that 51% with the percent of the population that has been raped.
51.5% of 18.3% = .183 * .511 = .093513 = 9.35% — works out to just under 10% of women being raped by a current/former intimate partner. As far as frequency, that’s a bit harder to work out, but —
Less mathy version — most rape victims are raped by a single person — that could mean the same person repeatedly, but it doesn’t mean that most people are rapist assholes (iirc, that study I referred to a above had found an average of 4 victims per rapist asshole).
pecunium — tiny statistical nitpick on my part here — ” The methodology is sound, as such the results are pretty much valid on their face.” — face validity is a thing in statistics, and it doesn’t mean that, it means that the study is actually studying what it claims to be studying. Ev-psych fails this with frequency — the studies that make you go “how is that going to measure wtf you say you’re measuring?” are the ones that fail face validity.
Yeah, I know you meant the common usage of the terms, but hopefully this will make sense, from one pedant to another 🙂
which brings us back to the original question: if all you can say is ‘but i dont liiiiiiike it’. why are we supposed to take your argument seriously or treat it with respect?
No, you were denying the study. You do that a lot, and then tell us it’s because you can’t get your head around it.
Fine. I can’t really get my head around string-theory. and that light always takes the fastest path was pretty hard to accept for a long time too, but that’s not the same as saying, “I don’t get it, it must not happen”, which is what you did.
Thanks for the link, but this self reported study lacks credibility to me.
You are denying the study. You are saying that your opinion of the credibility of it means that it’s suspect. Not that you don’t understand the results, but you don’t believe they are valid (they lack credibility).
You keep doing that, e.g. the statement that feminism didn’t exist, because you didn’t know about it. It did, and you were wrong.
I’m sorry but your age isn’t an excuse. It’s certainly not the get out of jail free card you seem to want it to be when you get caught out, and then say, “oh, well it was all different then and I’m not up on all that new stuff.”
This isn’t new stuff. The study is reliable, in its method, or it isn’t. It’s not about you can’t get your head around a man being raped, viz the whole, I got a blowjob in the morning, and it was great, subthread, where you agreed that rape could happen, but dismissed it because it’s not likely to be reported.
Lack of actual consent is what makes it rape. Imagine, if you will, a woman in her late-teens,early twenties. She’s got her first boyfriend, and he wants sex when she isn’t in the mood, so he pushes,and nags, and works hard to get her to say yes, until; because he won’t let her sleep, she does.
That’s not consent freely given. That’s rape.
Now, tell me you can’t see that happening to a man. Try to tell me that no man, ever, has said yes to just to get some sleep.
That’s your argument when you say, “I accept most of it. I can’t get my mind around a man , not a boy, being raped by a woman.
Rape isn’t always (not even usually) violent. It’s a lack of respect for consent. It’s your, “mistaken consent”. It’s rape.
Argenti: I think I see what you are saying (re “face validity”), and I’ll try to avoid confusing the issue by making accidental conflations.
grampmk: When it comes to a man being raped by a woman, you need to get your head around the idea, like pecunium says, that not all rape is violent or requires force. And also that not all men want sex all the time (or even at all, in some cases), or are always able to give informed consent for whatever reason.
You probably understand and accept the concept of a man being deceived, coerced etc into doing other things they don’t or wouldn’t normally consent to, like say… a business contract, just to pick a random example. The same applies to rape.
Plus there’s the more obvious ways, like drugs or booze – those impair or disable a man’s (even a perfectly healthy, able-bodied and strong man’s) ability to make decisions just as much as anyone else. The man might even have some other sort of impairment, like a disability that prevents him from fighting back or making informed decisions.
Denying things you don’t understand or that you don’t have knowledge of isn’t the way to go, especially since with a little research (or people who are willing to try to explain it in the hopes you aren’t beyond understanding it) you can improve your view of things.
May I ask why you can’t get your mind around it?
Most of the times I’ve heard people suggest that such a thing is impossible, their argument boils down to one of three possibilities:
1. Men can’t be raped by women because men are big and strong and women are small and weak.
This one is pretty easily refuted just by walking outside and looking at a random assortment of people. It is patently obvious that some men are not particularly big and strong, and that some women are. Men who are short or skinny or disabled or elderly are still men. But that’s only the beginning of the problem with this argument. Even if we stick to rape through violent means, there are things called guns in the world, and even big strong men tend to do what the person pointing a gun at them says – and that’s still only the beginning. Big strong men still sleep. They still get drunk. They can still be drugged. My boyfriend is literally about twice my size, but he falls asleep before me most nights. If I felt like doing something horrible to him (which I don’t, because I’m not a horrible person), all I’d have to do is wait a few hours. And we’re STILL not done, because there are ways to rape someone that don’t require any form of physical restriction whatsoever. Saying, “Have sex with me or I’ll fire you” is one such way. Physical strength has very, very little to do with whether someone can be raped.
2. Men can’t be raped by women because men always want sex with all women.
This one is particularly baffling to me, because it would seem like counterexamples should be so supremely obvious. I know virtually zero men who want to have sex with, say, their mothers, or their sisters, or their daughters. But even beyond the fact that even the horniest straight men in the world tend to have at least some women they would be horrified to have sex with, most men aren’t the horniest straight men in the world. Lots of men are in committed monogamous relationships, and do not want to have sex with anyone but their partner. Lots of men are gay, and do not want to have sex with any woman. Some men are members of religious orders that compel chastity. Some men are asexual, and do not feel sexual desire for anyone, ever. And the vast, vast majority of men have at least some sexual preferences, and would not willingly have sex with a woman who did not meet those preferences, whether they’re as restrictive as “I only like blue-eyed blonde women” or as inclusive as “I would be attracted to almost anyone, but probably not a 900-pound woman with severe hirsutism.” You would have an incredibly hard time finding even one man who genuinely wants to have sex with EVERY woman, which makes the idea that this is true not just of one man but of all men utterly bizarre.
3. Sex with a man requires an erection, and erections only happen when you want sex with the person who’s there.
There are a wide variety of ways to engage in sex acts with men without erections being involved – and erections are caused by a whole lot of things besides active sexual desire, as almost any cis man actually knows if he stops to think about it. (Again, if I were the sort of horrible person who wanted to use an erection without its owner’s consent, I could often just wait till my partner is sleeping.) Also, there are loads of reasons a man could feel sexual arousal without being willing to consent to sex – such as “being in a committed monogamous relationship,” for an obvious one. Most guys in monogamous relationships do not magically stop experiencing physical arousal when they see a sexy person being sexy. That does not mean they are all slaves to their boners who would never say “no” if that sexy person invited them to have sex.
I don’t know if any of these answer your particular objection, but I hope they’ve helped you think about the issue more.
@Polliwog; ” There are a wide variety of ways to engage in sex acts with men without erections being involved – and erections are caused by a whole lot of things besides active sexual desire, as almost any cis man actually knows if he stops to think about it. (”
One of the causes of non performance by man is stress. Hardons on command only work in the porn industry. I would never presume to know what it feels like to be a woman, so you shouldn’t presume to know what it means to be a man. If any man were to walk into any police station and claim he was raped by a woman , he would be laughed out of that station.
@ShadetheDruid; Give just one link to a woman convicted of raping a man in the US. Just one.
I’m not ShadetheDruid, but I can give you a link to a story about a woman being convicted or raping a man in the US:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970809&slug=2553861
@Argenti Aertheri; You’re much better at numbers than I. Also as you know these numbers can differ depending what site you go to or who’s blog you happen to read. But the bottom line, as you stated previously, is most women who are raped are raped by someone they know , not a guy that jumps out of the bushes. I’ve seen a number of 73% and also 93% . So it appears women have more to worry from someone they know than a stranger when it comes to rape.
“Give just one link to a woman convicted of raping a man in the US. Just one.”
I’ve got a woman arrested in Sweden, another in Zimbawae and one in the US. Seeing how that last one raped a minor, I assume I should keep looking.
“If any man were to walk into any police station and claim he was raped by a woman , he would be laughed out of that station.”
And that’s proof that men can’t be raped by women? Not proof that rape culture hurts men too? (Where are our regular MRAs?)
Australia for this one.
“So it appears women have more to worry from someone they know than a stranger when it comes to rape.”
Well yes…was anyone disagreeing on that? (The 51.1% was for former or current partners, people she knows includes friends/acquaintances she wasn’t sexually involved with, that’s where the 20%+ difference comes from)
“You’re much better at numbers than I.”
Thank you, our usual trolls make it out like anyone being better than them at anything is the end of the word (I am absolutely rubbish at most things mechanical, if you can do more than check the oil, you know more about cars than I do)
@cloudiah; OK you proved your point. I concede. But I think we can agree that female to male rape is so rare, it is hardly worth a mention. However, I’ve seen stats like every 2 minutes a woman is raped by a man.
Getting back to this guy who was raped by his ex, there is a community of millions of males in the US that need to be slaves to a dominatrix. I won’t say what sites I’ve been to where I’ve seen this, but they exist. These same guys are into SPH and CBT. They get off on hearing a woman make fun of their small dicks and mutilate their genitalia in front of their mistress. Some may call this an alternative lifestyle, I call it mentally ill. So yes there is female on male rape, but only to males that fit a certain criteria.
I beg your pardon? I’m pretty damned sure those men who’ve been raped by women would pretty fucking strongly disagree that it’s “hardly worth a mention.”
Okay seriously, go fuck yourself.
Yes Argenti; “Finally, prosecutors will accuse Elder of raping the man by performing an act of oral sex without his consent.”
To me giving a dude a blow job isn’t rape, it’s a favor. I still prefer that FBI definition of rape, “Currently, the FBI defines rape as the “carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.” But of course that’s Australia.
grampmk, we absolutely can’t agree that female on male rape is hardly worth a mention. Any rape is wrong, Anything that shames men out of reporting being raped is a terrible thing; I think you’re probably right that many police officers would laugh off a report of being raped by an adult man, but they would be wrong to do so.
Uh, wtf. Consensual bdsm is not rape you dumbass. And yeah, I’m pretty sure we all know that it exists, thanks for your weird explanation though.
*hed esplodes* There is too much packed into that last comment from grampmk for me to unpack it, but I’ll give some of it a go (and give cookies to anyone who can manage the whole thing).
grampmk —
Let’s start with — BDSM =/= mentally ill. Though I’m sure plenty of people would love to think that I only bite because I’m mentally ill, I’m pretty sure depression doesn’t make one bitey. Thanks for not dropping porn links though, that’s a fast way to get yourself put on mod.
As for “mutilate their genitalia”, wtf is the difference, in practical terms, between that and gauging my ears? My holes are large enough that it’s unlikely they’d ever full close if I decided to let them, and yet, I tend to get compliments. Certainly no one has ever said that I only gauged my ears because I’m mentally ill.
“But I think we can agree that female to male rape is so rare, it is hardly worth a mention.”
So is getting hit by lightening, hell, so are shark attacks, but you know those make major news. Really, the rarer something is, the more press it gets, usually. Why do you think that isn’t the case here? (Hint, probably has something to do with the disbelief that it could be possible, combined with the assumption, including of the victims, that they’d be laughed at)
Everyone else, wtf is SPH? CBT I know, SPH is getting me relevant google results.
Not if said dude doesn’t want it. Is that really so fucking hard to understand?
@Argenti; ” And that’s proof that men can’t be raped by women? Not proof that rape culture hurts men too? (Where are our regular MRAs?)”
I’m not an MRA, I’m a member of AARP and the VFW only. But I do support your side when it comes to rape culture and the epidemic of female rape, especially int eh 18 to 24 age bracket.
“To me giving a dude a blow job isn’t rape, it’s a favor.”
Only if he wants a blowjob, then, from that person. Otherwise he’s probably not consenting, and thus? Rape!
“I still prefer that FBI definition of rape, “Currently, the FBI defines rape as the “carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.””
Um…you’re behind on news, because they changed that.
“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”