Just a quick update on Eivind Berge: According to this news account, the Norwegian Men’s Rights blogger is considered enough of a threat to police officers that his two-week detention has been extended by four more weeks. According to the prosecutor, the “risk of recurrence of new criminal offenses” makes releasing him dangerous.
See my posts here and here for more on his arrest.
Argenti: Sure, though in the case of simple mass-murder, as opposed to terrorism, the religious aspect isn’t likely to be at all probative. Given the default state of most of the US as some sort of christian I’m not really of the opinion that “christian” is all that material
When we look. at terrorists, however, the nature of their religious practice becomes more of a measurable quantity. The Catholic priest on that list did what he did from a religious conviction. So to did Randolph and Schroeder and most of the others.
They admitted it. They aren’t all christians (Rubin, for example). I also didn’t include the largest swathe of institutional terrorism in the US; which is the history of lynching; which isn’t as dead as we like to pretend, though it no longer has the overwhelming social sanction it had into the early decades of the last century. The actual enforcement of the ban on sending Lynching Postcards in the mail was much bemoaned.
The law was passed (IIRC) in 1918, bit serious enforcement didn’t start for another decade.
Appalling.
@Argenti Aertheri
“my list was mass murderers, so both claims would be correct (both mass murderers, and terrorists, are largely white men, and for the ones where religion was mentioned, every last one on my list was a christian)”
Is that over 50%?
Oh and neo nazi doesn’t exactly count as a christian group, nor does the KKK. Not many people I know consider either as a Christian groups. What next, somebody slept in a hotel where a bible was? Do you consider radfem feminists?
The Southern Poverty Law Center
“Is that over 50%?”
That listed/mentioned religion at all? No. That were christian were it was mentioned? That was 100% as far as I noticed.
If you meant “were white men over 50%” — yes, 54% of cases where I didn’t have to guess (considering the nearly 100% rate of male sounding names, you really want me to calculate the cases where I had to guess?)
Pecunium’s right, in cases of mass murder their religion often didn’t play a role and thus wasn’t mentioned.
NWO, have some of my mango juice and vodka, maybe it’ll make you less grumpy — you can’t have any if you’re going to be an angry drunk though, angry drunks are no fun at all.
@Ithiliana
“And if one looks at the organized violence designed to shut down women’s clinics and “stop abortion by murdering people” which is done by white Christians, then yeah, the MAJORITY of TERRORIST acts in the US are by white people, mostly but not entirely men:”
Abortioneers murder 1.5 million people a year, about 60 million since R-v-W. Let me know when 60 million abortionists are murdered. Too funny. The terrorist’s calling some trying to stop the terror a terrorist. Is Tiller the killer dead? Just as dead as all those unborn children he slaughtered.
What Christian values do you believe in/practice, NWO? I mean, you’re always frothing at the mouth about the misrepresentation and denigration of Christian values but coming from you it all seems like so much sound and fury. Mostly fury.
You want sex slaves and the right to wave your erection in the faces of eight year old girls. You advocate for vigilantism among other forms of violence. You believe that forgiveness is finite; you are judgmental and hypocritical. You do not love your enemies. Your heart is full of hate.
What is Christianity to you, apart from primitive tribalism?
@Argenti Aertheri
” NWO, have some of my mango juice and vodka, maybe it’ll make you less grumpy — you can’t have any if you’re going to be an angry drunk though, angry drunks are no fun at all.”
It’s your lucky day, I don’t drink.
NWO: Is the majority of terrorist activity, committed by Christian fundies?
Not quite, but close. White males, Conservative, of a Fundamentalist stripe of Christianity.
And I provided evidence. You have done nothing but make an ad hominem attack against one of my sources; and doing it by bearing false witness about that source.
There are other sources.
So, I’ve made a case; you’ve not responded to it.
Which means I’m still right.
Oh and neo nazi doesn’t exactly count as a christian group, nor does the KKK. Not many people I know consider either as a Christian groups
The KKK says they are. Nazis… they vary. The German Nazis had their own sect (the official religion of the party), “Positive Christianty.
NSDAP Party Programm. February 24, 1920, Point 24: “We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The good of the state before the good of the individual.” Quoted in Robert Michael and Philip Rosen (2007). Dictionary of Antisemitism from the Earliest Times to the Present Lanham: Scarecrow Press, p. 321
The US branches of Nazism tend to adopt some variation on this (it deriving from the idea of Kirche, Kuche, Kinder, which wasn’t actually a Nazi slogan) so that sects such as Christian Identity, Church of Jesus Christ–Christian, World Church of the Creator, and the Creativity Movement in general.
So yeah, I’d say most Nazis in America think themselves to be Christians, and fundamentalist in their beliefs.
“What Christian values do you believe in/practice, NWO?”
I am also curious on that one. That whole “love your neighbor” thing doesn’t just mean the neighbor you like, they’re easy to love, it means that one who’s always tossing their cigarette butts in your yard and playing loud music at 4am (or in your case NWO, it means the one wearing a bikini in her yard where you can see her…and don’t forget that lusting with your eyes is committing an affair in your heart and that that’s your problem, not hers).
It certainly can’t be the “turn the other cheek” part, considering how you reacted to “Jesus tapdancing Christ”
I think NWO belongs to the “I believe in Jesus therefore nothing I could ever do could possibly be wrong. (Unless it was gay.)” branch of Christianity.
NWO:
The SPLC is the most is so far left even for manboobers.
Oooooooooooh, I dunno. Seems quite a few of us commenting on the SPLC’s report on the msogyny in the MRA (*even though they did not classify them as an official hate group YET*) were supportive.
Speaking for myself, besides buying kitty litter, and scented candles, I regularly donate to the local charity for women (Women In Need), and to Doctors Without Borders, and to the SPLC.
The SPLC did stellar work in shutting down shutting down Richard Butler’s Aryan Nations. (Idaho native, so followed that one with a bit more attention).
Pretty much, you type something, you are wrong.
Does it ever get boring?
@NWOslave:
Asking out of morbid curiosity: so there’s no type of threat in any context which should be illegal?
Non-morbid curiosity: do you think that defamation laws should be repealed?
@Khymchanur: I’m pretty sure NWO thinks people who say things like “Jesus Tapdancing Christ” and such should be locked up and the key thrown away–for insulting his religion.
But he of course should be allowed to call all the women anything he wants!
Otherwise, MISANDRY.
I am just drunk enough for his problem with “Jesus tapdancing Christ” to make sense, in theory anyways.
“Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.”
Is one of the ten commandments, thus “Jesus tapdancing Christ” is as bad as murder. Except the US doesn’t make its laws based on the ten commandments, and while Christians, in theory, make their personal morals by them, “Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.” is also a commandment, and as Pecunium keeps noting, NWO has trouble with that one. (Also, one could argue that they don’t apply to Christians at all, being part of the Jewish convent that Jesus broke, whereas that “love your neighbor” I pointed out above? That’s from the parts attributed to Jesus, and thus definitely does apply to Christians).
And in NWO’s case? That whole “flighty Jews” rant is no better than “Jesus tapdancing Christ” — as I said, that’s old testament, meaning Jesus isn’t being discussed (one could argue that since God is omniscient then future things were also being spoken of, but that’s irrelevant to my point here). The point here being that those commandments were given to the Jews, thus making the “your God” part the Jewish God.
Lol, I haven’t ranted theological while drunk in quite a while, so thank you for that. (Watch NWO’s head explode that my pagan/atheist self knows his religion better than he does…)
flighty Jews? Spell check, I hate you! I meant his “filthy Jews” rant.
Argenti: “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.”
But even that’s a bit misunderstood. “taking” in that context is better translated as, “invoking”, and it’s why oaths matter.
As a matter of politesse one ought not use The Name” in vain, but even Orthodox Jews (at least of my acquaintance) are known to use the various euphemisms as a sort of ejaculatory expletive.
It’s not clear that this one isn’t still covered in the teachings of Jesus. No one can explain what he meant by, “to blaspheme the Holy Spirit”. Given that blasphemy proper is really hard, that’s probably not it, but one could make a (very weak) case for it.
Pecunium — yeah outside of oaths I don’t know many people who’d have issue with it (and really, everyone I know who’d have issue with it has issue with everything…so this category probably does include NWO I guess). I’d forgotten the NT bit about blasphemy, so yeah ignore that part of my rant — I really doubt “Jesus tapdancing Christ” would’ve been blasphemy though. And considering idk anyone who can actually explain wtf “the Holy Spirit” means, I’m inclined to doubt that blaspheming Jesus would count (questions I don’t advise asking a fundie — can you explain the Holy Spirit…questions are of the devil apparently).
taking Jesus name doesn’t count at all; Jesus isn’t the aspect of deity one is using when one says, “God”; but the Trinity is a really odd (and fundamentally Pythagorean/Platonic Greek in origin). But Jesus wasn’t a Trinitarian, and so that means when he said “God” he meant God, not, “Jesus”.
And taking a name in vain isn’t blasphemy, so that’s not an issue either.
Depending what strain of fundie NWO is, Jesus might be taught at as part of the trinity (wtf is the third aspect if not “the son”? I’ve always heard it as “the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit”)
In any case, NWO is definitely fractally wrong, again. Because yeah whether Jesus is now considered part of the trinity is moot as to whether he considered himself when discussing blasphemy.
Jesus is part of the trinity; the incarnation, but he; as a man, wasn’t speaking of Himself, because he was unaware of his Divine Aspect, ergo when he speaks of “God” Jesus. the man, isn’t incorporated in the idea.
Ah ok, I get what you meant now.
I knew as soon as clinic bombings came up that Owly was gonna go all “waaa killing the innocent babies! you’re evil!” on us.
Not sure why I feel need to do this, because he’s not going to listen, but:
1. A tiny lump of cells is not a baby.
2. An actual, living person with an actual life and actual people who love and care for them > potential of a fetus.
3. Abortions are only a tiny percentage of the work those clinics do.
And NWO completely ignores the issue of terrorism. He said “mass murderer” to avoid having to deal with the clinic bombers (which are only one manifestation of the problem I was talking about).
But the clinic bombers, they are killing people. NWO doesn’t have a problem with that. So the issue isn’t that he’s against killing, it’s that he cares who gets killed. Women, pro-choice people, not such a big deal. Proto-people, big-deal.
What’s the difference? None, actually; because he’s all about controlling women. It’s why he favors rape, and tries to say what they wear, and how they act are what cause rape, etc.. It’s why he’s got his twisted notion of, ‘escalation’ and it’s why he’s all for beating any woman who so much as lifts a finger against any man…. even if it kills her.
And this is his idea of being a moral person.
I, too, and awaiting nwo’s reponse to Nobinayamu’s
Jesus said to the Pharisees in his time, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'”
You believe that God is omnipotent, and yet impotent to see what is in your heart when you not only wear your heart on your sleeve but allow it to gush all over your responses here and everywhere else that you comment, so convinced are you of your own self-righteousness.
You are decidedly anti-abortion whilst also being anti-“Big Daddy Gov’t” lending support for the mother and child because you believe that bearing that child and quite possibly living in abject poverty with that child is apt punishment for the woman who dares commit the grievous sin of having sexual relations while female. And for those who are transgendered female, well, we can’t have THAT because she may not suffer those same consequences.
And who the hell are YOU to pronounce what is and is not Christian? What, did the Word of God originate from YOU??
No, Christians are hated because of self-proclaimed Christians like you; those who want to declare the USA a Christian Nation, so the politics of exploitation, marginalization, oppression, etc., of those not like you, in the name of “taking your country back for God”, is conflated with whole of Christianity.