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A Voice for Men continues to spread its message of peace, love, and f*cking people’s sh*t up

Poor Paul Elam. Here he is, the self-annointed leader of the world’s greatest 21st century human rights movement, and for some strange reason people keep mistaking him for some sort of two-bit hatemonger.

No, really!

In his latest post on A Voice for Men, Mr. Elam laments the evil way one Australian news site took AVFM’s rallying cry  – “Fuck Their Shit Up” — and made it seem kind of mean. Also, they added an “ing” to “fuck.” Elam writes:

[Journalist Tory] Shepherd (or her editors) gave a subheading to her piece which read:

Hate site’s motto is ‘F***king their s**t up

Misuse of the transitive verb aside, and ignoring the fact that even when properly quoted it is not the sites motto (which is “Take the Red Pill”), the use of that phrase in the sub-header was calculated to make AVfM appear to be a hate site.

How unfair to tag a website with the slogan it uses constantly! And, really, how could anyone see “fuck their shit up” as anything but a spirited call for peacefulness, understanding, and love?

Elam continues:

It is intended to make us look as though we have violent leanings; that we are a threat to the personal security of feminists, and indeed to women in general.

Because of this potential for misunderstanding, Elam has decided to retire the catchphrase in favor of one that will more accurately convey AVFM’s message of love.

Oops, sorry. That would be a logical thing to do, and Elam is clearly a man beyond mere logic.

Instead, he decided to see how many times he could use the phrase “fuck their shit up” and variants thereof in the course of a single blog post. To make counting easier in the quotes that follow, I will put each use of the phrase in bold.

I have a personal, deeply personal message for [Tory Shepherd] and for two others of her ilk associated with this “story.”

Tory Shepherd, I am here to fuck your shit up.

Betty McLellan, I am here to fuck your shit up

Michael Flood, I am here to fuck your shit up.

And in case any of the three of you are as stupid as you sound, I mean it literally. I want your shit fucked up in a permanent and irreversible way. I want the harsh, unforgiving light of truth to shine on you and other hateful swine that spread bigotry and violence under the guise of advancing the cause of women.

Nothing hateful to see here, move right along!

Oh, wait, there’s more:

Do I want to fuck these peoples shit up? Oh yes, I certainly do. And it has already begun to happen. …

This, and by that I mean the truth, is fucking their shit up. It is happening in the best possible way and all their powerless wailing and lies about FTSU meaning violence won’t stop it.

The growth of this movement depends, wholly and completely, on our ideas being exposed to rational people who value fairness and justice. We are now getting that exposure, and it is scaring the living shit out of the likes of McLellan, Shepherd and Flood.

That fear looks damned good on them. …

We are dealing with liars and bigots. They have no sense of honor or decency.  When I call Michael Flood a sociopathic pig, it is not an adolescent ad hominem used in the absence of substance, but an unavoidable conclusion rooted in the reality of his conduct as a human being. …

We are not compelled to play nice with these hateful ideologues any more than we would feel compelled to politely discuss race relations with the Ku Klux Klan, or debate reproductive rights with people who bomb abortion clinics.

Our one and only job is to fuck their shit up; to make them suffer the pain of truth, and to keep doing it till they have no place to hide. …

All we have to do is fuck their shit up, then wake up tomorrow and do it again. They are powerless to stop it.

And … scene!

So that’s eight uses of Elam’s favorite catchphrase in one post. Paul and hate make eight! Oh, wait, the title of the post is also “Fuck Their Shit Up.” So that’s nine. Oh, and he used the acronym FTSU twice, too, once in the post and once in his bio. That’s eleven.

Keep digging, Paul! And take the rest of the MRAs down to the center of the earth with you, while you’re at it.

Oh, and apparently AVFM’s JohnTheOther has written an entire post of his own, also attacking Shepherd, also complaining about the evil of people quoting AVFM’s favorite catchphrase (and sometimes even adding “ing” to it), and quite possibly accusing her of supporting mass murder. I’m not sure of the details. I just glanced at it. I refuse to read the whole thing on general principle. Life is short, and JtO’s posts are really, really long.

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emmy
emmy
8 years ago

my face

my palm

they have joined in beautiful congress

what is life

why.

Graham
8 years ago

He wants to *literally* fuck their shit up? Their literal shit? What does that involve?

ithiliana
ithiliana
8 years ago

@Graham: I literally think that literal people who use literal as some form of asshat emphasis should literally be smacked.

Literally fucking their shit would I presume involve collecting their shit (I hope they charge him for it!), and fucking it.

Seems like that might be a good match for his skill set and capabilities.

LITERALLY!

serpentineminer
serpentineminer
8 years ago

@graham. Bad tacos. Too much beer. A really spicy curry. Basically he wants to feed them. See? Peace and love!

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Coprophilia. For sure.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

How dare people suggest that we’re a threat to the safety of feminists! BTW, people who I think are feminists, I’m going to fuck your shit up. Just so you know.

Should we start calling him No Self-Awareness Man?

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

“Accuse me of making violent threats? I’ll show you violent threats!”

#abuserlogic

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Paul Elam: literally a shit fucker.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

I clicked through to the post to see if David was hiding some context, some part where Elam explains that “fuck their shit up” is a metaphor for peaceful ideological change.

The post image was of a boxer standing over a defeated opponent. Erm.

The closest he gets to justifying it as non-violent is this bit:

Do I want to fuck these peoples shit up? Oh yes, I certainly do. And it has already begun to happen. Just a very few years ago the men’s movement was sequestered away from even having a strong presence on the internet. We were a ragtag group of social renegades that mainly talked amongst ourselves because the rest of the world was caught headlong in a sweeping tide of feminist agitprop.

[…] We are also seeing a rapidly growing effort to attempt to shut us up, including the efforts of the SPLC, which you can read about here.

They are destined to fail.

This, and by that I mean the truth, is fucking their shit up. It is happening in the best possible way and all their powerless wailing and lies about FTSU meaning violence won’t stop it.

So you see it’s just a needlessly aggressive and violent metaphor for MRAs, er, continuing to exist. Get up in the morning, scratch your ass, shit out a couple “yeah right on Paul” comments on AVfM? You are Fucking Their Shit Up. And if people are offended by your comments, that’s like double FTSU points.

That’s almost sadder. I mean, it’s not violent I guess, yay for that, but it shows just how incredibly myopic and petty their idea of “activism” is.

cloudiah
8 years ago

JtO’s argument:

Shepherd interviewed Betty McLellan. McLellan contributes to Radfem hub. Other people on Radfem Hub proposed getting rid of men through eugenics, and other terrible things. Therefore, everyone associated with Radfem Hub advocates mass murder. AVfM opposes Radfem Hub. Therefore everyone who criticizes AVfM must agree with every post and/or comment on Radfem Hub. Therefore Shepherd advocates mass murder.

Also, by calling MRAs “extremists” Shepherd allies herself with US military aggression. Therefore, Shepherd is also to blame for drone strikes in Pakistan, apparently.
At the end, he highlights a call to contact Shepherd, and for some reason — inexplicable, since we all know they are all about peace and love — he feels the need to remind them not “to include threats of violence, or damage to property.”

I’ll just say, that this is an unusually bad piece of writing, even for JtO. Incomplete sentences, clashing verb tenses, a terrible semicolon massacre about 2/3 of the way through that still has my eyes bleeding…

Does JtO actually support mass murder of the English language? To quote JtO, I wouldn’t bet on no.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Okay, so Elam meant literally fucking their shit up metaphorically. Is this a literal metaphor or a metaphorical metaphor? Is it literally a metaphorical metaphor, or?

This literally makes my brain freeze.

Hippie Redneck
8 years ago

I find it pretty odd (and quite telling), Futrelle, that you try to infer from these quotes that Paul & co. are advocating physical violence against women (even though they have explicitly condemned it countless times), and completely ignore it when feminists openly advocate violence against men and little boys, promote neglect of male infants, sex-selective abortions, eugenics, and did I mention violence against little boys?

I also love how you omitted the link in Paul’s article to an article at Fathers 4 Equality which PROVES what a sociopath Michael Flood is. Since you’re too much of a fucking coward to show it, I’ll do it myself: http://www.f4e.com.au/blog/2011/11/17/michael-flood-when-equality-becomes-the-new-enemy-of-feminism/

Just give it up. You’re fighting a losing battle.* And no, trying to discredit my links just because they came from MRA websites will not help you.

*denotes a quote which you could mine and take out of context to continue trying to make MRAs look violent.

Bostonian
8 years ago

So, did Steele Sorebuttpole ever send Elam an email regarding Tom Martin? Any denouncing child prostitution?

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

And in case any of the three of you are as stupid as you sound, I mean it literally. I want your shit fucked up in a permanent and irreversible way.

This is one of the best things I’ve ever read on this site. “Since I’m obviously smarter than you, let me explain that I misuse words so badly that I just declared that I really want to have sex with your feces forever.”

skeptifem
8 years ago

FTSU was really damn popular in middle school. I don’t think I’ve heard the phrase between then and now.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

So when I call Paul Elam a sociopathic pig, it is not an adolescent ad hominem used in the absence of substance, but an unavoidable conclusion rooted in the reality of his conduct as a human being. …

Elame, if the shoe fits…

Shaenon
8 years ago

I’m more fascinated by the discovery that there’s a university in Australia which employs both a woman who writes for RedFemHub and a man who writes for A Voice for Men.

This fracas should, nay must, end with them falling in love.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

That fear looks damned good on them. …

Really, Elam? You’re going with “I like seeing people in fear” in your blog post about how you’re being misrepresented as violent? Okee doke.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

“We hate you!” … “How dare you call us a hate site!? Now we REALLY hate you for calling us haters!” You almost feel bad for them, they make the mocking almost too easy.

Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago

Quoting from Cliff’s quotation:

just a very few years ago the men’s movement was sequestered away from even having a strong presence on the internet.

Uh, I suggest you search google groups for the soc.men newsgroup archives. It’s been more than “just a very few years” that MRAs have been online. They just didn’t catch on via usenet, and seem to be struggling with blogs.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Was John the Other the VERB! VERB! ONOMATOPOEIA! (Hey! I spelled that right my first try!) guy?

Sharculese
8 years ago

no that was paul-e

anon
anon
8 years ago

3 years later and flabtrelle still hasn’t gotten over the fact that he got spanked in the debate ;(((((((((((((((((

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Even better.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

“Our successes are due to the righteousness of our cause! Our failures are due to our many powerful enemies!

Sharculese
8 years ago

3 years later and flabtrelle still hasn’t gotten over the fact that he got spanked in the debate ;(((((((((((((((((

which is of course why he’s the one showing up in someone elses comment section to make dumb potshots, duh

CharlotteCollins
CharlotteCollins
8 years ago

Oh please. Jezebel has a feature called “Fuck, Marry, Kill” where three men are lined up and readers encouraged to contemplate which one they would have sex with, which one they would consider as a partner and which one they would murder.

But that’s just all in good fun!

Hypocritical much?

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

My question is, what EXACTLY do they mean by “fuck their shit up”? It’s always left as vague as possible, with allusions to “evil feminist plots” (that are never specified) that must be defeated.

I’m not sure that “hot young conventionally attractive women have an easier time finding interested sex partners than most white, passive-aggressive misogynistic men” is really a great rallying cry to remove basic human rights for women.

If the great feminist conspiracy is to have women be treated like actual HUMAN BEINGS, then color me unconvinced that this is some kind of bad thing.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

…why do people keep trying to insult David’s weight like this isn’t in the FAQ?

Q) I heard some MRAs call you fat. Are you fat?

A) Yes, I am fat. This may be the only true thing that MRAs have ever said about me.

Get some new material.

Sharculese
8 years ago

how many times do we have to be like, ‘youre right, jezebel kind of sucks’ before you dudes will stop being like ‘but what about jezebel, huh, what do you have to say about that’

but seriously, if youre comparing a middle school lunchtime game to paul elams screaming violence tantrums than i dunno what to tell you besides get a sense of proportion

Sharculese
8 years ago

My question is, what EXACTLY do they mean by “fuck their shit up”? It’s always left as vague as possible, with allusions to “evil feminist plots” (that are never specified) that must be defeated

paul elam thinks that if he talks all the time about vaguely violent shit, but never actually tells anyone to go out and commit acts of violence then everyone is fooled. this is either because he is stupid or he thinks that his readers or stupid. or both.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

RE Elam, I suspect that it’s because he knows that being more specific might get him in trouble with the authorities. He skirts just barely on the right side of the law from a technical point of view while pissing all over the spirit behind it.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
8 years ago

OMG, there was a debate? Is there video-tape footage? Do they really rant and claim victory IRL as on the forums?

I feel like such a newbie right now!!!

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Oh please. Jezebel has a feature called “Fuck, Marry, Kill” where three men are lined up and readers encouraged to contemplate which one they would have sex with, which one they would consider as a partner and which one they would murder.

Oh no, Jezebel author Every Woman Ever, you have let us down once again.

No, srsly, Jezebel is pretty terrible at feminism, this is not news, nor does it prove that playing FMK is somehow feminist and all the feminists love it.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Charlotte: But that’s just all in good fun!

Well… who there is saying they would, “literally” make that choice to kill someone?

Who there is saying, “fear looks good on them”?

It may be in less than brilliant taste (Jezebel often is, IMO), but I’ve yet to see anything there which said, And in case any of the three of you are as stupid as you sound, I mean it literally. I want your shit fucked up in a permanent and irreversible way.

It’s a bit telling that Elam, et al, have to make such a point that they don’t encourage violence. If they don’t mean to inspire violence, why make violent rhetoric such a large part of the motif?

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Howard: There was an attempt at debate. Elam tried to take his ball and go home.

Then he declared victory, which is why his miserable lackies, and lickspittle minions, like meadering over here to mewl laboriously about his brilliance. (Varpole, not that I played with language. Four gibes, alternating ML and LM, twice. That’s the sort of thing you can teach yourself to do)

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

What amuses me is that they must think it some sort of victory, or they wouldn’t keep bringing it up.

Every time they do, it gets linked, and people who would otherwise live in blissful ignorance are apprised of it.

And thus expose Elam to more critical evaluation.

Doctress Ju'ulia
Doctress Ju'ulia
8 years ago

I am a radical feminist, and I dot no advocate mass murder. I also don’t wanna fall in love.

Anyone who enjoys seeing other people in fear is a shit-fuckin’ psychopath.

Doctress Ju'ulia
Doctress Ju'ulia
8 years ago

Do NOT, rather.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
8 years ago

Awww, no videotape. Booooo!

And reading how it went–yeah, they seriously want to bring that up? It really does show how they think. “We yelled louder–we must have won!” “We got to heap abuse on people–we must have won!”

Yeah.

One of the trolls here kept posting something recently, about how they kept trying and trying, repeating the truth clearly, but we either could not understand them or claimed it was hateful garbage they were shoveling. Their conclusion is that every single one of us was somehow unable to understand complex things.

The much simpler idea that they were ranting hateful garbage just never was even considered as a possibility.

Hey, wasn’t Steele saying that the Men’s Rights Movement was about helping the exploited? And he was gonna go tell Paul Elam on TM?

…oh, Steele…?

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

I like how Hippie Redneck’s little link-dump of All The Terrible Things of Feminism points solely to AVfM.

See how terrible Paul Elam says feminists are?

(Psst. If you want to talk about the terrible things someone says, link to the things they say.)

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

Oh please. Jezebel has [snip]

You do know that Jezebel has been called out for misogyny on this very site, right?

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

2-D Man – It is a well-known fact in the MRA community that if you ever read feminist writing directly, you’ll grow hair on your palms and go blind.

howardbann1ster
howardbann1ster
8 years ago

You do know that Jezebel has been called out for misogyny on this very site, right?

I think we already established that context and consistency are misandry.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Also I think blogs written or read by women may also be misandry, in that they distract women from their sammich making and blow-job giving duties.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Wow, could I have fit the word “also” into that comment any more often? Apparently Steele’s shitty writing is contagious.

Hippie Redneck
8 years ago

2-D Man: Why don’t you actually try clicking on the goddamn links? They’re screenshots from a feminist website whose members do fundraising for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Is Charlotte Ruby’s slightly smarter but just as yappy and pointless sister?

Chalrotte, run along–we’ve said repeatedly that Jezebel sucks it, so back to the Treehouse with you.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

2-D Man: Why don’t you actually try clicking on the goddamn links? They’re screenshots from a feminist website whose members do fundraising for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Oh no, they’ve discovered that ALL FEMINISTS EVERYWHERE are represented by like thirty people on RadHub! Seriously, we don’t even like them, they’re usually jerks to trans women and sex workers, and sometimes even to straight women.

And I like how “made a donation to the SPLC” has gotten spin-doctored into “are the SPLC’s official fundraising team.”

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