This lovely poster, meant as a sarcastic response to this “10 Top Tips to End Rape” poster, has gotten 759 upvotes in the Men’s Rights subreddit. Well, 759 net upvotes. It’s actually gotten more than 1200 upvotes, and 450 downvotes. Because, clearly, trying to stop the small percentage of rape accusations that are false is totally so much more important than trying to stop rape itself. Mocking rape prevention programs and promoting a culture in which women (and men, and genderqueer people) are afraid to come forward with real stories of rape for fear of being harassed and ridiculed is really the only decent thing to do. Plus: Lulz!
Here one commenter explains the “logic” behind the poster:
The discussion is, well, what you’d expect from r/mensrights. But don’t worry: some people have stepped up to critique the poster.
That’s right, solidwhetstone, your rapey poster wasn’t rapey enough!
—
There is some
here.
From the BBC on the UK:
“The number of rapes reported is rising – but only 5.6% of 11,766 reports in 2002 led to a rapist being convicted.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4296433.stm
So 5.6 % versus 94.4 %… what kind of weird skewered worldview do these men have?! Rape is still a crime without punishment in many Western countries.
On a completely different note: I send you an email David about a suggestion for a new post a few days ago. Is it better to ask in the comments or should I just wait?
General rape-related TW
I went through several instances of sexual assault and rape between the ages of 8 and 15 and for each occurrence I have received piles of victim blaming. Apparently real rape at 8 means I would have immediately told my parents. If my uncle really was molesting me the rest of the family would have stopped him when they saw it instead of ignoring it or policing my clothing. I definitely was asking for it when I met a man in the army with a friend of mine (who knew him) and he raped me in his car before he let me go home.
I think it was the victim blaming that damaged me the most, and made me more vulnerable to being further victimized. It was an ugly cycle and the damage it did psychologically still affects me. It probably effected my sex drive and I know it had an impact on my capacity to enjoy consensual PIV sex.
I also don’t think that any of the men who raped me thought from their perspective that it was “real rape” either. Our culture privileges their perspective as being at least equal to mine, though It is hardly balanced to equate someone’s desire to have bodily autonomy and someone else’s desire to use the body of another person. Mutual consent is sex, without it from all participants it is rape. The rapists perspective that they really wanted sex, deserved sex, needed sex, were promised sex, are entitled to sex (for whatever reason) is entirely irrelevant.
@ Nanasha, clairedammit, Cliff
If any of you didn’t read this when it came out you may want to do so now.
http://www.racialicious.com/2008/12/21/original-essay-the-not-rape-epidemic/
Jesus, ronalon42. I’m so sorry. I know what you mean, though. It’s totally fucked me up for life that someone I thought was my friend would do that to me, even though I was crying and saying no. It’s even worse, though, that people who were in a position to help me — who made their living working with victims — went out of their way to tell me they thought I was lying, or that I “deserved” it. The victim blaming is the most painful part. And it’s not like it ever stops.
I’m not convinced that my rapists thought from their perspectives that it wasn’t “real rape,” though. I think that if anyone had asked them, they wouldn’t have used the word “rape,” because they didn’t want to get in trouble. But honestly, I’m pretty sure that a big part of what they were after was Lack of Consent. They didn’t want to have sex — they wanted to rape. I think that about most rapists, actually. They fucking know what they’re doing. Rape is absolutely intentional, which is why it’s such a pernicious lie that the MRM is telling: alllllllll these falsely accused men just wanted to have sex and whoops! Someone cried rape! How did that happen? “Hm, I guess women who don’t want to be accidentally raped shouldn’t drink alcohol” sounds a lot better than “I targeted the most inebriated woman at the bar because I didn’t want anyone who could say no” or “I invited my friend to play a friendly drinking game because I absolutely intended to get her to the point where my cousin and I could rape her without her doing anything about it” (which is — sorry — painfully specific, because that’s what my rapists did). Anyway, fuck. This thread is totally triggering. But so is everything.
Nanasha, Cliff, and clairedammit … I’m also very sorry about what happened to you.
@Cassandra- Thanks, I needed that.
I find it interesting that the number one thing that people tell you when they talk about rape is that it must be a “misunderstanding” if it’s someone you know, despite the fact that PEOPLE YOU KNOW are the most likely people to rape you. If you don’t know the person, or don’t know them very well, chances are people are more likely to believe you, even though random jump-out-of-the-bushes rapists are relatively rare (although just as bad in severity).
I also think that most of the “Not Rape” conditioning starts when you’re a child- most kids are taught to acquiesce to older people- to defer to unwanted hugs and kisses from aunts and uncles, and to be ok with giving up their bodily integrity when it comes to people who act as though they are in Authority.
For me, I am raising my child to be secure in her own body and I *never* force kisses or hugs or any kind of affection on her if she does not want it. I don’t force her to hug or kiss other people either. This is probably tied to how we socialize girls in general as well, but I think it is important that children learn very early on how to clearly communicate their feelings and desires- and why this is important in an age-appropriate way, because simply “knowing” what a rapist will do to you doesn’t fix the problem (and I should know- my mom tried the “tell Nanasha and younger sister graphic rape stories at 8 and 10 years of age” tactic, and it just freaked me out and made me paranoid- it also fucked me up a lot about feeling like I “deserved” to be raped or that I would never get to have sex unless I got raped because my mom coupled these rants with “you’re fat and ugly and clumsy” rants at separate times and I felt as though the two things were related somehow.
This website has a lot of helpful stuff about teaching kids (and teens and adults) how to deal with abusive situations and set boundaries: http://kidpower.org/abuse-prevention/
And yes, plenty of men would benefit from these things too. How many men were molested or raped as little boys or vulnerable teens? How many suffer the shame of having been hurt by someone and told it was their fault? How many men grow up without learning how to set their own boundaries, communicate clearly, and read other people’s body language?
These skills are EVERYONE skills and they should be FUCKING MANDATORY.
Instead, we get abstinence-only education and whispers of Not-Rape behind the portable buildings in the school yard.
What the hell, Modern Society, what the hell?!
@NWO
So being called an “overweight white dude who hates his ex-wife and gets off on punching his perceived grievances into a keyboard” has hurt your fee fees? And this equals misandry?
Dude, you are so fucking out of touch with reality, it’s scary.
“Ohhhh yeah, this is pure gold amongst the gang. Why is it unsubstantiated? Because the word unsubstantiated fell out of you mouth, that’s why.”
It’s up to you to substantiate them. It’s not our job to unsubstatntiate, but we are still happy to do that for you sometimes. And perfoming statistical gymnastics until some numbers look like they’re in your favor doesn’t count.
“Women are perfect angels. Men are perfect devils.”
Nobody is saying that, asshole. When you read the radfem paragraph and see “Women are perfect angels. Men are perfect devils” you are fucking delusional. I could show you a picture of a dog and you would say “Women are perfect angels. Men are perfect devils.”
Stop saying the same shit over and over again.
Additionally, this is a bit mainstream-y but it really has a lot of good information about treating kids with respect and helping them to set boundaries and learn that their boundaries SHOULD ALWAYS be respected, and that if someone does not respect them, to get the hell away, even if it’s Aunt Ethyl trying to kiss them against their will:
http://us.cnn.com/2012/06/20/living/give-grandma-hug-child/index.html?c&page=0
PS: This does not absolve the people who force stuff on other people of responsibility- that shit is not ok from a kiss to sexual assault if it’s unwanted. Our society needs to replace rape culture and hierarchical scripted sex with consent culture and communicative individualized sex.
I want to add in here that most rapists know that their partner was not consenting. Studies about interpretation of cues and about how rapists perceived the situation typically reflect that the rapist knew that their partner was not fully consenting or fully capable of consenting. The “misunderstanding” thing doesn’t actually happen all that much in any real situation, what happens in general is that a rapist knows their partner doesn’t want to have sex and doesn’t give a fuck. “Misunderstanding” is mostly used when people are pretending that X, Y, Z forms of rape aren’t really real rape, so therefore the perp didn’t understand they were raping.
Bee you are right, it is pretty certain that they purposefully target people who cannot resist, who can’t consent and who are powerless to do anything about it. It is why the rape culture works so well in their favor, as it widens the net of acceptable targets and normalizes harmful behaviors. I had meant that the word rapist itself (like most negative labels) is probably not something they would think of themselves. There is a comeback I’ve heard something like “wouldn’t I know if I was a rapist? And I say that I am not! Case closed!” It almost reminds me of debates about racism, where the bar to be given the label is almost cartoonishly villainous and describes only a tiny portion of people.
I have two daughters and it is a big concern, but at the very least I hope they are learning from me that they have a right to dictate what does or does not happen to their body, from hugs and kisses from relatives to getting ears pierced and so on. And if anyone violates that, they can trust that I will take it seriously, no matter how “small” it is.
And internet hugs to all who want them. I am sorry for triggering anyone as well.
I just stumbled across this on tumblr… wow
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m79qlrKsqR1r0rqaeo1_500.png
It’s hilarious to assume the converse. “All rapists don’t look like good chaps.” What in the heck do they look like?
Ooh, did they quote me? Because I made that phrase up! I’m pretty excited actually if it’s spreading.
Usually radfems don’t like me that well, on account of how I’m too sex-positive (and to be fair to them, also because I’ve said some problematic things about them on my blog in the past), so I wouldn’t expect to get quoted on RadHub, but these things do circulate around.
Aworldanonymous –
That’s true for neurotypical people too. No one’s that sensitive to cues that they never have to ask. But out in the adult world there are a lot of people who are okay with being asked (or may even ask you!). That’s not a reason on its own to never have sex. It’s just a reason to talk things out before sex.
And like DSC said, most rapists know damn well what they’re doing. It’s actually not that easy to do by accident–it doesn’t come from misjudging what your partner is feeling, it comes from not even caring.
@Cliff
Dark and/or poor, possibly atheist as well. Of course a PC misandrist like you wouldn’t be smart enough to grok that
/sarcasm
TW, but this man went undercover and befriended his girlfriend’s rapist in order to retrieve evidence of her assault (the bastard had videotaped it). Two years after the rape, her attacker is finally charged. She was too traumatized to report it at the time, and didn’t tell anyone that it even happened for over a year.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/11/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-legallyweird-idUS126508015520120711
Cliff: Owly, you either did not read or did not understand the Slavering Beast article.
Owly: Oh, I read it alright. YOU THINK MEN ARE SLAVERING BEASTS!!!1
Cliff: Do you have any shame whatsoever?
Owly: Nope! Why do you ask?
Oh NWO, so out of touch with reality. My rapist was a trust fund hipster kid I went to college with. And he didn’t say “hey, I’m in town, want to go get drinks and catch up and then I’ll rape you later?
You can’t tell if someone’s going to be a rapist until they start raping.
I find it funny that Owly is complaining about the “slavering beast” thing and accusing people of thinking that about all men, considering he and the other MRAs think that.
I mean, isn’t that the whole point of the “women shouldn’t dress or act slutty because it tempts men” thing?
Wow, yes, because false rape accusations are anywhere near as common as unreported rape. This is pretty sick. If you are so against “false” rape accusations, you think you’d do everything you could to make rape not happen, which means putting the onus on men not to rape. But no, these guys don’t want that. They want free reign to do with women what they want to. Straight up, they are monsters and should be called monsters whenever possible. Frankly if I knew where these assholes lived I’d put up fliers in their neighborhood so women knew to stay very far away from them.
what a cunt
Yeah, Shade, Owly’s conception of male sexuality is that it is essentially rapacious. I have never come across a greater misandrist than Owly.
Hugs for every survivor! And you’re all very brave for talking about it.
I’m getting pretty tired of the Udder Fondler General assuming that my sexuality is not under my control, and that the only thing stopping me from assaulting anyone (but little girls especially) is the clothes that they wear.
If it’s a choice between “you can’t tell which man is going to rape you, but most of them won’t” and “men will rape anything with a vagina” I’m going with better safe than sorry rather than lock us all up now.
@Sandra:
Who’s that, then? Did Tom Martin sneak back in, and we started adding “(you c***s)” to everything?
On the one hand, I want NWOslave to read Twisty Faster’s Blog and then read the Pervocracy and then come back here and tell us all feminists are the same.
On the other hand, I’m 99.9%positive that if he did, then he’d come back here with the conclusion that we’re all like Twisty Faster (except for the part where we’re not).
(posting as either GingerSnaps or whataboutthemoonz, I haven’t figured out how WordPress works yet…..)
@blitzgal- I’m happy that the boyfriend helped his girlfriend get justice (and evidence), but it also plays into the idea that there are only very specific rapes that should ever truly be considered “rape” (ie: it has to be horribly traumatic to the point of the victim being unable to talk about it AT ALL, involve some level of overt physical abuse, etc) because only THOSE rapes are “extreme” enough and “clearly wrong” enough to be successfully prosecuted.
And who wants to guess that the defense is going to consist of “oh, but she got so DRUNK! What an alcoholic! ALSO she must be some sort of slut, having ‘sex’ with two men at once!”?
And who wants to guess that Rape Culture and the attitudes behind it will lead to people actually BELIEVING it, because the alternative is that this “normal” looking guy (I didn’t see any pictures, but I’m assuming he doesn’t look like a demented Mr. Hyde running around with his dick out or they would have immediately locked him away) is actually a monster who planned and executed the sexual assault and torture of a minor, and I think that’s something that scares the shit out of most “average” people- the fact that there are monsters among us and yet most of them don’t look like monsters- they look like friends, families, lovers, even ourselves. The thought that your most intimate partner could be a monster also makes people wonder if there is a monster inside themselves, waiting to come out- is it inherent, or is it truly planned? We all have dark thoughts at times, some of them sexual, and while I do think that most people would NEVER rape someone, there *are* Id-y parts of your brain that leave people with the fear that one day something’s going to happen and they’re just going to “snap” and do something terrible.
Which is why I think that it bears repeating that getting out of rape culture is more complex than “don’t rape people” but it’s a start. It would require a fundamental change in how we socialize people to interact and place consent and communication firmly into even our NON-sexual interactions with one another. What is problematic is that rape is only one point in the cascading failure of consent. Rape often starts out with unwanted touches, unwanted advances, invasion of personal space, aggressive pushing of alcohol or drugs, and other “not-rape” stuff.
If the standard of romance and sex wasn’t the “mysterious whirlwind” that “just happens” without talking about it, the ignoring of consent and subsequent cascade of sexual assault factors would be much more apparent, not only to the victim but to the people surrounding them. Sure, most of us learn (sadly from personal experience) when to pick up on the difference between a clueless suitor and a rapist suitor, but it shouldn’t have to be that way- we shouldn’t have to learn survival skills by being targeted, humiliated and placed in danger by predators.
Which is why “creepy” is pretty much the best weapon in our arsenal. And that is why all these rapey rapey MRAs fucking HATE that word. Because it’s the only way for us to describe cascading rape escalation behaviors in a socially acceptable way.
**hugs to everybody**
Some of the comments make me sad and angry. But a lot of these comments are very necessary. I did not report my rape because I was afraid no one would support me and blame me as I did myself.
Tips to end REAL false accusations of rape:
1:Hold police and prosecutors accountable for mishandling of cases and get them to use proper investigator methods.
In many of these types of cases there is an actual rape and the victim does not know their attacker(not the majority of rapes by the way).
The police are focused on a particular suspect and convince an already traumatized victim this is the person that did it.
2: There are fewer cases where a woman does actually lie about being raped for fear of being treated badly for her sexual activity. To help end this:
STOP SLUT SHAMING! No slut shaming, no incentive for a woman to lie about her sexual activity.
Some problematic things with their list are :
#1:If the woman drank enough to impair judgement that much—That’s rape asshole.
#6:Being drunk is not consent for sex. If she would not consent to it sober—That’s rape asshole.
#8:If she was so drunk she would not even remember what you look like the next day—That’s rape asshole. and a little of my answer to #6 on this one too.