This lovely poster, meant as a sarcastic response to this “10 Top Tips to End Rape” poster, has gotten 759 upvotes in the Men’s Rights subreddit. Well, 759 net upvotes. It’s actually gotten more than 1200 upvotes, and 450 downvotes. Because, clearly, trying to stop the small percentage of rape accusations that are false is totally so much more important than trying to stop rape itself. Mocking rape prevention programs and promoting a culture in which women (and men, and genderqueer people) are afraid to come forward with real stories of rape for fear of being harassed and ridiculed is really the only decent thing to do. Plus: Lulz!
Here one commenter explains the “logic” behind the poster:
The discussion is, well, what you’d expect from r/mensrights. But don’t worry: some people have stepped up to critique the poster.
That’s right, solidwhetstone, your rapey poster wasn’t rapey enough!
—
There is some
here.
Genuine, unsarcastic question for NWO: why do you assume that if girls are allowed to play anything they want, they’ll only want to play dress-up games?
@Cliff Pervocracy
“God damn it, NWO, stop repeating the title of a post you didn’t read.”
Oh I read it, Holly. I get it alright. I understood it completely. Oh he might look like a good chap, but ya never know, he could be a slavering beast. I can read the same damn thing on radfem. Every damned feminist site uses the same phrases and wording. The moderates, the radicals, the raunch gender brigade, it’s all the same. See how the patriarchy hurts men too. Gender stereotypes. Gender norms. Kyriarchy. Power dynamics.
Here, this is the front page of the radfem hub.
“What happens when men finally realize they can no longer suppress women’s speech? When their counter-arguments prove to be unsubstantiated and factually incorrect? When they’re forced to accept that nobody takes the word “misandry” seriously, because while “misogyny” evokes the horrors of witch-burnings, female genital mutilation, honor killings, suttee, forced lobotomies and Chinese foot-binding, “misandry” only manages to evoke the image of an overweight white dude who hates his ex-wife and gets off on punching his perceived grievances into a keyboard.”
Now you tell me what’s the difference from radfem hub and manboobz and feministe and pandagon and anything else on the antidotes to boobery links. It’s the same damn thing. No one makes a bit of sense. Women are perfect angels. Men are perfect devils.
I can copy and paste any article from any feminist site into any feminist site including manboobz and it fits like a glove.
That’s on the opening page of radfem hub. It’s a perfect comment for manboobz hub. Look ya got….
“overweight white dude who hates his ex-wife and gets off on punching his perceived grievances into a keyboard.”
This alone is manboobz #1 comment.
“What happens when men finally realize they can no longer suppress women’s speech?”
Here’s #2. Hell a little while ago there was a big tadoo about you gals bitching you’ve fought way too hard to insult men and how it your bloody right to do so.
“When their counter-arguments prove to be unsubstantiated and factually incorrect?”
Ohhhh yeah, this is pure gold amongst the gang. Why is it unsubstantiated? Because the word unsubstantiated fell out of you mouth, that’s why.
“When they’re forced to accept that nobody takes the word “misandry” seriously,”
This is more manboobz gold. Why there’s no such thing as misandry. One woman has her feelings hurt and it’s universal systemic misogyny. If it’s one man it’s not misandry.
C’mon, tell me the difference? All feminism is the same.
The Competitive Enterprise Institute are the same ones who tried to rehabilitate the image of CO2: “Carbon Dioxide–they call it pollution, we call it life.” So, yeah, they’re a right-wing think tank.
@ Cliff
Indeed, the mind of NWO seems to be an upsetting place full of conflict. Since Meller owns the title of Dunning-Kruger Man, maybe we should call NWO Cognitive Dissonance Man.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… How Owly-appropriate!
The whole theory of women claiming rape because they had sex they ‘regretted’ doesn’t make any LOGICAL SENSE.
Who has sex with someone, then regretts it and THEN suddenly feels the desire to tell the police about it so afterwards they will have to repeat the story over and over again in a courtroom full of people?
When I regret sex I keep it a secret. Lol jokes, I still tell everyone…
Nope, let’s just ignore that most rape victims have been accused of doing at least one of the things on that list, and that lists like these are completely counterproductive to a culture that supports rape victims in speaking out against their attackers. All because some men took it personally when a list was created to thwart people who actually do rape, or are thinking about raping, and that none of the things on that list are things every day men are accused of doing.
I don’t understand it either. Regret implies to me either some meh experience you would either try to forget (sex that was boring or something new you ate and didn’t like or an impulse purchase that now you don’t want) or something you feel sad about and want to make amends for (hurt someone’s feelings or caused an unintended injury in some way). What it doesn’t make me think of is wanting to lie about someone for some random vengeful reason and in the process put yourself through a ton of ridicule and suspicion and doubt, which is what people who bring rape accusations actually face outside of imaginary mraland. That’s why I don’t understand their whole “regret” wording.
Rape is one of those things that is incredibly hard to prove, and it is the burdan of the accuser to prove that rape actually occurred. I don’t understand why these guys are so afraid of being convicted of rape because unless it’s incredibly brutal, the victim could not legally consent, or there are a bunch of eye witnesses, it’s pretty hard to prove that someone raped someone else in a court of law.
This is the main reason I did not report when I was raped.
First of all, I had been in a prior relationship with the person.
Second of all, I had let him stay over at my apartment in the common area (with my housemates around) because he had an event in town and we had stayed friends.
Third of all, I knew he was sexually frustrated, but he knew I wasn’t interested. Still, I ignored it when he said lewd things to me when I was walking around in my (not revealing at all) pajama pants/tshirt. He’d said stuff like that before without doing anything bad to me.
Fourthly, when I woke up with him doing things on top of me, I disassociated and froze, so I never said “no” nor did I actually try and get him to get off of me (although he was practically crushing me, so I probably could not have gotten up even if I had struggled).
Fifthly, he weighs less than I do.
Sixthly, the rape did not involve vaginal penetration, even though he bruised my chest from the stuff he was doing to me.
Seventhly, there really wasn’t any evidence. I let him leave when he was done without a fuss. I was so shocked about what he had done, my brain could barely process it…and the fact that he had done such a thing to me made me feel like he was capable of anything….anything horrible that I could imagine.
Most rapes involve some level of ambiguity on the part of the rapist. The rapist does this because it’s easier to get away with the crime if everyone thinks that it could POSSIBLY have been “just sex.” Most people would prefer to think that it was just “sex gone wrong” or “sex that was regretted” instead of an actual heinous crime that most people seem to only associate with scary monsters jumping out of bushes with knives. 🙁
Nanasha – I’m so sorry that happened to you.
I had a similar experience. Same problems–prior relationship, no obvious evidence, and mostly that afterwards I was just so glad it was over and I was away from him, I wasn’t even thinking in terms of “hey, that was an actual crime, you’re allowed to report things like that” until months later.
Honestly I’m not even sure that with a perfect legal system all rapes would be prosecutable. But they ought to be at least recognized as things that happen and are real.
Nanasha, hugs if you want them. And I think you’re incredibly strong to write about what happened to you so clearly.
I have a theory that some men (the ones who probably aren’t rapists but stick up for them) are afraid they’re going to rape somebody accidentally. I know that sounds weird, but if you imagine that you believe that women don’t really like sex…(quit laughing)…and that we only have sex with men for the other parts of the relationship, then you’d never be able to tell if we were enthusiastically consenting or not, because we’d never be enthusiastic deep down inside. Behind every yes would be a silent no. And I think the actual rapists convince themselves that this is true so that they can believe that rape is sex.
I’m sorry that happened to you, Nanasha.
Good job minimizing the fact that some people’s fathers, brothers, and other family members/people the trust are the ones who rape them. I mean, isn’t it actually MORE likely that you’ll be raped by someone you know? Great job talking about it as if it never fucking happens.
No you guys, this theory totally holds up. That’s why there were 3 women and 9 men in my film classes… OH WAIT NO THAT DOESN’T ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE AT ALL DOES IT?
THis has always bothered me too. Who honestly thinks, “Oh shit, I had sex with HIM last night? Alright, off to relive the whole thing in front of a court room and jury of my peers, letting everyone know I had sex with this guy who wasn’t actually hot once I took off my beer goggles, instead of just pretending like it never happened.”
@Cliff- Exactly- I think that there are few ways to truly “legally” prove many rapes simply because they often boil down to one person saying one thing and the other person saying the opposite. But I just wish there was more validation that yes, rape occurs, and it often occurs in a way that *cannot be proven in a court of law* and just because it cannot be proven doesn’t mean that it did not exist.
I think that one of the worst things about rape apologists is that they try and make it out to be a “you must just hate sex” thing (no- I am a deeply sexual person with a high sex drive and consensual sex is amazing) and/or simply deny that rape can happen AT ALL unless it’s magically proven 100% without a shadow of a doubt.
They don’t just want to keep rapists from being punished for raping, but they also want to INVALIDATE and DISAPPEAR the experience of people who have been raped. And that is almost more upsetting to me- to be told that what happened to me didn’t ACTUALLY happen, I’m just an evil sex-hating bitch and it’s all my fault.
@clairedammit- I didn’t want to put too many details because I know that they can be triggering to other people as well, but yeah, I eventually got to a point where I could sort of process through the actual chain of events and came to the conclusion that there was really no way to actually legally make the charges stick (he also lives in a different city and was only visiting when the incident occurred- plus I basically just cut off all contact with him after the incident- he called and left a couple messages on my phone acting all confused and hurt that I wasn’t returning his calls).
And I totally get the whole “women must hate sex” thing that these people seem to believe. I mean, who else but someone who thinks that women hate sex would honestly say that women only “endure” sexual requests by men in order to get sparkly jewelry and get pampered by hanging around home eating bon bons and watching soap operas all day (because everyone knows that hoarding expensive stuff and eating treats in a lair is what women aspire to do because, ya know, women are actually DRAGONS).
It also clues me into how out-of-touch they are about other people in sexual relationships. There’s obviously not a lot of communication going on here, and if there is any attempt, it’s being perceived as “a trick” at best. And of course, there’s the problem that a lot of people who respect themselves and like honest communication will not be willing to have sex with that sort of person, so these misogynist assholes inevitably find themselves getting into sexual relationships with people who have severe problems and baggage from past relationships, which then tend to segue right into abusive relationships (which they believe are “normal”).
It really saddens me how there might be actual rapists out there who think you can “rape someone by accident.” As though lying there as though dead, saying no in a scared way, or using very clear negative body language are NOT indicators that something is wrong LONG before the rape happens.
Something tells me that most rapists are simply so self-absorbed and self-centered, that they will tell themselves whatever it takes to sleep at night to justify why they did what they did to someone who obviously did not consent.
I know, right? I’m pretty sure that if I got drunk and consented to sex that I regretted it later, I’d tell my girlfriends that he was too drunk, and I had changed my mind in the meantime. Easy!
girlwriteswhat (of course) has a little copy-paste that she’s fond of dumping in places:
“watch?v=bvM97_Z9g50&list=UUC3L8QaxqEGUiBC252GHy3w&index=9&feature=plpp_video
One interesting fact was that when you control for being raised in a single-mother household, the race disparity in incarcerated populations vanishes. About 80% of those incarcerated and youths in state-run institutions were raised without fathers.
Matriarchy might not create ghettos (I’m pretty sure it does), but it sure is failing children.”
I’ve seen her post it in youtube comment sections and she even replied to me on reddit once with the exact same wording. I did what I considered to be the right thing at the time and ignored it.
Oh, my comment above was for Jessay.
Hugs to both Cliff and Nanasha, if you want them.
Thing is, the scenarios you’re describing are, as much as I hate using this word in this context, the norm for rape. Strangers jumping out of bushes with knives are rare, what you’re describing much less so.
And a lot of women (myself, for example) have been sexually assaulted by people we knew. Even if it didn’t go as far as rape, it was still an assault and still scary as fuck. But they get to tell themselves that they were “just having fun” and when I burst into tears in the first case, or shoved them away and ran for my life in the second, it was “just a misunderstanding.” And of course, I didn’t tell anyone, either. What was there to tell? (sarcasm)
I actually have never told anyone until tonight. So thanks for your stories, Nanasha and Cliff.
Nanasha, Cliff, and clairedammit, hugs if you want them. I am so sorry.
As a latin@, GWW can fucking die in a fire right now.
Seriously, any given white dude is more likely to do drugs than a black or hispanic one. And they are only barely ahead of the number of black dudes in prison, despite being a substantially higher number of the population. Fuck off and die, MRAs. Race matters.
@clairedammit- It means a lot to know that you feel safe enough to share, but it’s absolutely heartbreaking that this seems to be so “normal.” I could practically give you dates and play-by-plays that sound exactly the same as the ones you describe but that couldn’t be considered “full on rape” and were largely dismissed by said assaulters as “all in fun” or “just a joke.”
Ugh. =_=
@ Cliff, Nanasha, and clairedammit
This is part of the reason I’ve decided to remain a virgin. I have aspergers and therefore have trouble judging nonverbal cues, I wouldn’t be able to ever be absolutely sure that I wasn’t raping someone unless I overtly asked if it were ok first, and sadly in the high school that I went to, that and other sex-positive attitudes were the kind of thing that got you labelled as creepy, shy, socially awkward, or some other unattractive label. I however have a policy to never even come close to raping anyone, I honestly view rape as one of the most horrible things someone can do to anyone else, to the point where if not raping people means I never have sex, I’m fine with that. I wish I could sympathize, but that’s kind of hard to do without empathy, so the most I can offer are my sincere condolences for what must have been horrid and traumatic experiences, and my apologies if the language I’ve chosen to make this statement has been less sincere than I wish for it to be.