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$MONEY$ a voice for men antifeminism creepy evil women men who should not ever be with women ever misandry misogyny MRA oppressed men pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles rape rapey reddit the spearhead Tom Martin whores

Tom Martin, leading UK Men’s Rights Activist: “Pedophiles who pay children for sex are not really rapists, because the child … understand[s] the nature of the contract.”

Tom Martin, child rape apologist

[TRIGGER WARNING: Discussion of child rape]

Tom Martin is one of the most prominent Men’s Rights Activists in the UK. He’s best known for a failed lawsuit he launched against the London School of Economics, charging the school’s gender studies program with, you guessed it, misandry. The case was thrown out of court this March, and Martin celebrated his defeat by calling a lot of people whores on Twitter and, I am proud to say, in the comments here at Man Boobz.

While Martin, known perhaps ironically as @sexismbusters on Twitter, is clearly more famous in the UK than he is here in the states, this peculiar crusader against what he sees as sexism has been celebrated (and his defeat in court mourned) by numerous Men’s Rights sites on this side of the pond. He’s been discussed many times on the Men’s Rights subreddit, where one supporter declared:

And he’s gotten write-ups on an assortment of other MR sites from The Spearhead to MensActivism.org to one Man Boobz favorite, the now-defunct What Men Are Saying About Women. On the website of the National Coalition for Men, one enthusiastic commenter gushed:

Finaly a real man with balls !!! Not like the rest of us . Tom is my hero .

But the Men’s Rights site that has given Martin the most support has been A Voice for Men, which featured Martin on one of its “radio” shows, reposted an article on Martin’s crusade from his website that seems to have been written by Martin himself (in the third person), offered updates on his lawsuit, and even publicized a recent public debate of his in England. The site has also encouraged people to donate to Martin’s legal fund.

One wonders what these supporters will make of some of the strange and awful things Martin has been saying in the comments here on Man Boobz in recent days. (There is no question that it is really him; he confirmed his identity earlier by emailing me from the account associated with his website Sexismbusters.org, and anyone skeptical of any of this is invited to contact him directly through his website.)

Most of the comments he posted here during his first commenting binge were rather risibly misogynist, frequently punctuated with his favorite epithet “whore,” a designation he feels is an appropriate one for 97% of all women and (he had recently added) for 98% of Man Boobzers of either gender. You can see here or here for numerous examples of Martin’s wit and wisdom – including his argument that hard chairs are discriminatory towards men and his now famous declaration that “female penguins are whores.”

His more recent comments, though, haven’t been funny in the slightest. Martin’s new obsession? Child prostitutes – and why they aren’t victims so much as victimizers, willing participants in an activity that makes them big money. Let me put another TRIGGER WARNING here. This is some of the most repellant material I have ever featured on man Boobz.

Here’s Martin’s opening statement on the subject:

The latest establishment scam in the UK, is to describe child prostitutes as “vulnerable children groomed for sexual exploitation”, then talk about them being “passed around” etc, without mention of the fact that these young people agreed to be whores, and are getting paid for it.

In a followup, he elaborated on this logic:

“Yeah, she offered me a job as a prostitute abroad, which would involve me receiving lots of money for taking cock, so I accepted, became a prostitute, and therefor, according to the official fem definition, this makes me a sex slave”.

Grow up!

Even a 10 year old knows, if someone is paying you for sex, that makes you a whore.

And when he talks about ten year olds here, he means this literally; in his mind, trafficked ten year old children aren’t really victims, but economic actors making an economic choice:

I stand by my statement, that child prostitutes know what they are doing, and therefore deserve to be called prostitutes, not victims.

A progressive European country (either Holland or one of the Scandinavian countries, I remember hearing), introduced in the late 90s, the legal principle of no arbitrary minimum age for consent, rather, the legal requirement to ascertain whether lawful sex had taken place was to establish whether the child or young person ‘understands the meaning of consent’ …

Now, if a ten year old is for instance [specific sexual act redacted] for money up front, then there is very much less question whether that whore understands the meaning of consent or not.

In another comment, Martin suggests that ten-year-olds who have been the victims of what some people insist on calling “real rape” would be offended by anyone thinking that ten-year-old prostitutes suffer from rape – when, after all, the child prostitutes have “agreed” to it.

From the perspective of a child who has actually been raped by an adult, how must it seem, to hear the victim-feminist establishment conflate child rape with child prostitution? The raped child remembers having no choice about participating in the sexual activity, of being forced, and then is asked to consider his or her fate or level of agency as similar or the same as that of a child who marketed them self for sex to an adult, took payment, then performed the act.

I don’t think the average 10 year old genuine rape victim would buy the manboobz style analysis that all child prostitution is rape … .

Questions of genuine agency are complicated, but not complicated enough to pass a 10 year old genuine rape victim’s bullshitometer I posit.

Oh, Martin doesn’t actually think ten year olds should be prostitutes. He thinks they should wait a few years, until they’re at least 14.

Should child prostitution from the ages of 13 up be legal?

Nope. I think that prostitution is a potentially dangerous profession for which a basic qualification in health and safety be required, like an NVQ – and that kind of course would not be attainable until after the minimum of secondary school years are completed, so aged 14, 15, 16, 17 or even 18 or more depending on the country.

The real problem, in his mind, is that young girls try to enter into the business when they should be in school:

States with child prostitution problems should be forced to get these children back into schools to complete their education, and child prostitutes who persist should be treated as school truants, a misdemeanor, and given the carrot and stick approach to get them back on the straight and narrow or go to young offenders institutions. If they want to be prostitutes when they’re old enough, then they can go to the careers advise officer, where the pros and cons of the profession can be laid out, and an application for the training course and license can be given.

Martin mocks the very notion that child prostitutes are being exploited:

Imagine you caught your underage 15 year old daughter on the game, what would you say to her?

“Okay darling, obviously you played no part whatsoever in choosing to be a prostitute yourself, so mummy’s going to help catch the nasty pimp who put you up to this, because what you need to learn is when 15 year old girls accidentally suck cocks for money, they should be compensated, with a bit of victims of crime compensation, and, not forgetting, the original £12 cock-sucking bonanza from the punter. That’s right sweety. Double bubble time. Pass me the phone. Now how does this thing work?”

Or… would you ground the whore for 6 months until she passes all her GCSEs?

Well, given that approximately 98% of manboobzers are whores themselves, I’m guessing you’re probably going to want to blame it all on MRAs.

So prostitution should be legal. But since prostitutes are very bad, they should pay high taxes for the privilege of plying their trade, to keep them poor and in order to repay society for the damage they do:

Prostitutes need to be taxed and licensed so heavily, rendering the profession a relatively poor way of making money.

Anyone who practices as a prostitute without the necessary qualification and license, can go to young offenders institute/jail – just like any other persistent illegal unlicensed trader would.

Anyone working on the sly as an escort, should be hunted down by the taxwoman, and if caught, given a huge bill for tax evasion, as well as a fine, and prison for not having a license. Unlicensed tax-evading prostitutes should be hunted down (which would be easy enough).

Anyone choosing prostitution should pay the highest taxes, and know why those taxes are so high – because of the damage prostitution does to the prostitutes and their customers and their environment and the society.

In a followup comment, Martin sees a silver lining in the form of all the tax revenues that prostitution will bring in:

If licensed hookers pay for a massive license fee and heavy taxes, then some of that money can be ring-fenced to research how best to get women (and girls) to renounce prostitution in all its forms, because let’s face it, a lot of housewhores and princess wannabes could do with a little economic activity-inducing work ethic therapy themselves.

Meanwhile, the customers of underage prostitutes – in other words, the child rapists – should be treated gingerly:

[M]en who pay money to have sex with child prostitutes should not be criminalized – but taken out of circulation and treated compassionately for their condition. I’ve heard that most criminal activity peaks with testosterone levels, in the late teens, but paedophillia is the only crime that increases in frequency as these men get older, indicating a growing pathology for them rather than just a typical immature criminal act.

He offers this final summing up of his twisted argument:

[P]edophiles who pay children for sex are not really rapists, because the child consents, then performs the act, indicating they understand the nature of the contract. The elder is still a pedophiles, but the child prostitute is still a prostitute.

If the child is enslaved – it’s rape, or too young or stupid to know what he or she’s doing – rape. But poor, and in need of food? Not rape. A choice. Unwilling to do other hard labour paying 9 times less than the prostitution route? Not rape. A choice.

He then extends his argument to the rest of the alleged 97% of women who, in his mind, are whores:

Whatever your age, follow the golden rule, of never taking money for sex, then prostitution will be eradicated. Only the prostitute can stop charging for sex.

And of course, that means rejecting courtship gifts, engagement gifts, marriage gifts, divorce gifts, and government largess also.

I don’t think many of you are ready to renounce prostitution in all its forms. …

I know a whore when I see one.

He even returns momentarily to his earlier assertion that female penguins are whores:

Someone or other here said I was anthropomorphising human behaviour onto penguin behaviour by calling penguins whores or something.

But the point is, being a whore, is an animalistic trait, that human females should not need to resort to, given they’re at the top of the fucking food chain already. Google “nuptial gifts” and you can read studies about various animals granting sex to those males who provide the most food, or even the most glittery non-edible trinkets etc, or in the case of penguins, rocks to build nests and shelter with.

I’m saying women are better than penguins, or at least would be if they renounced prostitution in all its forms.

I’m sure the women of the world will be happy to hear that Mr. Martin thinks they are potentially better than penguins.

I doubt many of Mr. Martin’s American supporters are familiar with his elaborate apologia for child rape. I would like to invite Man Boobz readers to show this post, or at least some of the more repellant quotations from it, to the proprietors of the various MRA blogs and MRA forums I have mentioned above.

I wonder if any of his supporters will be willing to renounce him publicly once they know what he has said here – and apparently in some recent public debates as well. Surely no legitimate “human rights movement” would want to be associated with anyone who spouts filth like this.

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Joanna
8 years ago

I had to stop reading halfway through. Sorry, but if you can’t vote, you can’t consent to sex. There are reasons for this.

BlueBee
BlueBee
8 years ago

Does anyone have bleach for my brain?

CharlotteCollins
CharlotteCollins
8 years ago

if you can’t vote, you can’t consent to sex

WHAT?!?

So all that sex my 15 year old self was having with my 16 year old boyfriend was non-consensual? At 15 I was a LIFEGUARD!! I was responsible for children’s lives and thought perfectly capable of such responsibility.

But having sex is somehow beyond my abilities?

AT 15 I was NOT a child. I had sex for fun, not money, but I’m pretty sure I was capable of making that decision for myself.

Shove your sanctimony. Seriously.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

CharlotteCollins, Tom Martin thinks that starving 10 year olds in Kenya who are prostituted to wealthy tourists are not being exploited or victimized in any way. He believes that the consent of a starving 10 year old to be sodomized for money is legitimate.

I don’t believe that a 15 year old cannot consent to sex with their 16 year old boyfriend. But I also don’t believe that a 15 year old caught in a prostitution sting because she’s been out on the streets since the age of 12 after she escaped a physically abusive home is a criminal, looking to exploit men.

Read the entirety of the original post. Expand your outrage.

Mayara Arend
8 years ago

“And of course, that means rejecting courtship gifts, engagement gifts, marriage gifts, divorce gifts, and government largess also.”

Uh. I give gifts to my boyfriend and I pay bills. Does that mean he’s a gigolo?
I just. I can’t even start being coherent.

Ok, I sign in on the blech for the brain, one for me too, please.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Charlotte: Many legal systems exempt to some extent sex between two minors — the issue if when 50 year old men are raping children and adolescents. We’ve had many long discussions on manboobz about the issues around statutory rape-why don’t you go read some of them and educate yourself.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ARAB_enUS452US452&sugexp=chrome,mod=15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=statutory+rape+site%3Amanboobz.com

If you don’t see the difference between two adolescents having sex and adult men raping girls and young women, then you’re approaching misogynist territory.

And yeah, you were a lifeguard: but could you buy booze legally? Could you drive, legally?

And remember Tom Fucking Martin was talking about TEN YEAR OLD CHILDREN.

Fuck off and die, plz.

the twisted spinster
the twisted spinster
8 years ago

I would call this story… “developing.” Yes, I don’t think we’ve heard the last of Mr. Martin’s… obsession with prostitution, apparently mostly of the child variety. These people inevitably talk and talk until they’ve said too much and end up getting a Very Special Visit from the police.

Sharculese
8 years ago

AT 15 I was NOT a child.

everyone is a child at 15, champ

Sharculese
8 years ago

it’s almost as if consent is a sliding scale and as you grow up you become capable of understanding and acquiescing in increasingly complex things

but no, you were capable of yelling ‘no running by the pool’ when you were a teenager, therefore we might as well have given you the nuclear codes

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Charlotte, from your response, I’d say you’re still a child. But yes, children under the legal age of consent cannot… wait for it… consent.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Brain bleach? How’s Cookie the penguin sound?

http://youtu.be/3wTWWjYTe1I

Or maybe you’d prefer tiny pigs?

http://youtu.be/H7leMctSTMc

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

CharlotteCollins commented on Joanna’s comment, not on the original post.

I agree with CharlotteCollins that it’s absurd to claim that one can’t possibly consent to sex if one can’t vote. I also agree with everybody else that it’s horrible to claim that child prostitutes are free agents making free choices.

And WTF is up with him thinking it completely ABSURD for a mother who finds out her fifteen-year-old is a prostitute to blame the pimp and feel deeply sorry for her daughter????? That’s the reaction of a NORMAL parent!

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

Fuck this guy, seriously, I have never seen a single person more despicable in my entire life. How the fuck can you seriously come out in favour of child rape? How the fuck can he not see this shit as abusive. Is this man a fucking sociopath or something? Whatever it is, it sincerely needs to be corrected, I’m sorry for being so vitriolic here, but this is simply unacceptable behaviour from anyone regardless of where they stand when it comes to misogyny.

Sharculese
8 years ago

@dvarg

i agree that joanna’s comment was wrong, but cc took it way too far and engaged in her usual indignation that anyone would dare call misogynists out so mocking her was the proper response

Anathema
Anathema
8 years ago

I . . . I just can’t . . . wow.

I’m simply at a loss for words here. Seriously, how can any human being honestly believe this?

I don’t know whether I should be sorry that
I missed out on that comment thread (because all the Manboobzers reactions were probably brilliant) or glad (because Tom Martin is apparently unimaginably effed up).

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Teenagers can consent to sex–with other teenagers, without coercion. Obviously child prostitution is generally with adults and always coercive. But two 17-year-olds can consent to recreational sex.

it’s almost as if consent is a sliding scale and as you grow up you become capable of understanding and acquiescing in increasingly complex things

Yeah, this.

There’s a big difference between “ready to start experimenting with a same-age partner” and “ready to start having power-skewed sex with demanding, sometimes dangerous strangers.”

Summer
Summer
8 years ago

@Charlotte Collins: are you really defending the prostitution of minors arguing that at 15 you were not a child?
Really?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

@Charlotte Collins: are you really defending the prostitution of minors arguing that at 15 you were not a child?
Really?

Probably it’s more likely that her need to be the putative Cha-Cha DiGregorio of the MRM caused her to skip over the original post entirely in order to jump on the first thing she could pretend to be outraged about.

I doubt it even crossed her mind that by failing to address the OP at all she’d be implying that 15 year olds consenting to sex with 16 year olds was somehow equivalent to exploited children in developing countries being raped.

And that kind of thing is bound to happen when you aren’t very bright.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

For the curious, that all is from this thread — and it continues, though he’s back to how 98% of women are whores. That thread has NWO, Martin, Eurosabra, Steele, and nearly 1,300 comments of ridiculousness (so far) — the whole thing is really a sight to see.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Probably it’s more likely that her need to be the putative Cha-Cha DiGregorio of the MRM caused her to skip over the original post entirely in order to jump on the first thing she could pretend to be outraged about.

+1 internet for beautifully deployed Grease reference.

BlueBee
BlueBee
8 years ago

Thank you, Argenti Aertheri! That was adorable, and my brain feels so much better.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

For the curious, that all is from this thread — and it continues, though he’s back to how 98% of women are whores. That thread has NWO, Martin, Eurosabra, Steele, and nearly 1,300 comments of ridiculousness (so far) — the whole thing is really a sight to see.

As amusing as that is, I’m angry enough seeing this post alone, my head would probably explode if I read that thread.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

aworldanonymous: I’d advise against it anyway, a lot of it was us just going around in circles with Steele. @.@

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

+1 internet for beautifully deployed Grease reference.

Have you been to the sing-along version?

I’m sorry, that’s a terrible derail.

But it’s awesome!

Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago

Thank you for the link to http://www.ustream.tv/sevenkittens. It is the best brain bleach ever which is what I need after wading through that shit Martin posted. The kittens are nursing right now. It’s so cute my head may explode.

TheNatFantastic
8 years ago

DEPLOY KITTENS:

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Nobinayamu, I have been! The Egyptian Theater in Seattle used to have it. We would dress up, it was a blast.

Better derail than the utter grossout that is Tom Martin.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

I’ve reposted it once. I need to put it on my Lj too.

With lots of trigger warnings. I have friends who were raped as children. They read my posts.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

Nobinayamu, I have been! The Egyptian Theater in Seattle used to have it. We would dress up, it was a blast.

Better derail than the utter grossout that is Tom Martin.

Yeah, I made my friends dress up too. Plus I know, literally, every line in the movie in addition to every line in every song. When they rolled credits the people in front of us turned around -and I thought they’d be annoyed- but they were like “You are the biggest Grease fan evah!”

Good times.

Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago

cloudiah
8 years ago

Baby hedgehog

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

DEPLOYING PUPPIES.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

AT 15 I was NOT a child.

Yes, but did you stamp your little foot while saying this, too? A tantrum makes it more believable. 🙂

scrapemind
8 years ago

I stopped reading that thread because I thought it was all about Eurosabra. I missed out on Tom Martin’s antics. The thread started out with Steele wanting to deny that Eivind Berge was an MRA. Eivind Berge is an odd MRA, because he cares about the principle that sex is a female resource at the expense of the MRA desire to punish female sex offenders to avenge the far greater number of male sex offenders. Tom Martin is a more typical MRA, with his cargo-cult attempt to wield the feminist weapon of anti-sexist activism in the service of men. Little does he understand that, like the magic sword in Starchaser: The Legend of Orin, only the predetermined winner can wield it.

I agree with David Futrelle and Tom Martin that David Futrelle should quote Tom Martin instead of quote-mining those other, non-representative MRAs.

Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago
Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago

didn’t embed. I fail.

Snowy
Snowy
8 years ago

Oh look, it’s the guy who likes trying to get people attack minority groups because he finds it interesting. How’s that going for you, Scrapemind?

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Sloths in pajamas for brain bleach:

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

didn’t embed. I fail. – Freitag

I think the fact the url ends with “d’aw” makes up for it. 😛

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Tom Martin is a more typical MRA, with his cargo-cult attempt to wield the feminist weapon of anti-sexist activism in the service of men.

Pretty sure cheering for child rape isn’t a “feminist weapon or anti-sexist activism” buddy.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

Ok, having a puppy with me is helping, but I’m still not going anywhere near that other thread, mainly because I know how circuitous things get when Steele is involved.

Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago

Baby pandas.

Anathema
Anathema
8 years ago

Over 1300 comments? O_O

Well, I suppose I’ll be caught up on the comments there after a couple of days.

I might just skim over some of the going in circles with Steele though. After the 2000+ comment thread where he insisted that 1) misandry doesn’t have to be systematic and everyone was wrong to define it as such, 2) misandry is systematic, 3) it would be a waste of time for him to provide us with examples of systematic misandry because we’d disagree with him, and 4) the Vietnam War was the costliest use of the draft, I’ve come to the conclusion that Steele is Manboobz’s densest and most boring troll.

themisanthropicmuse
8 years ago

There isn’t enough brain bleach, cute animal videos, or alcohol in the known universe to undo the hateful verbal diarrhea of that troll. I only wish that I had the power to make his batshit rantings go viral so everyone could know just how repugnant he is.

Kat
Kat
8 years ago

What does this guy do for a living? Can he get fired?

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Too fucking despicable for words. What does Martin even achieve by excusing the abuse of children? Seriously, why the fuck is he invested in that? Why?

cloudiah
8 years ago

No one fails who shares videos of an adorably clumsy baby tiger. Period.

Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago

Thank you cloudiah.

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
8 years ago

Tom Martin sucks more than anything has ever sucked before. The gravitational pull of 10,000 black holes, multiplied by all the Hoover vacuum cleaners in existence, and raised to the power of Michael Bolton singing “When a Man Loves a Woman” is as nothing to the massive, negative pressure vortex that is Tom Martin’s sucktitude. In short, he sucks.

drst
drst
8 years ago

Not to dismiss the horror of the rest of it but

rejecting courtship gifts, engagement gifts, marriage gifts, divorce gifts, and government largess also.

“Government largess”? Really? Getting services from the government I help fund with my taxes that are taken out of my salary is prostitution now?

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