Categories
antifeminism dozens of upvotes grandiosity harassment misogyny MRA oppressed men reddit threats violence your time will come

Men’s Rights Redditor: “Men … need to start putting … government agents who violate their rights in the dirt.” [+54 upvotes]

Today, in the Men’s Rights subreddit, we find Demonspawn, a long-time fixture in Reddit’s MRA circles, getting dozens of upvotes for a comment in which he advocates murdering family court judges and other government officials:

Demonspawn is responding to a post from Robert Franklin on Fathers and Families about Dan Brewington, “[a]n Indiana man fac[ing] five years in prison because he criticized the judge and the custody evaluator in his divorce and custody case.”

Or at least that’s how Franklin wants to frame the issue. While conceding that Brewington “often used intemperate language” on his blog, Franklin downplays what seems to have been a relentless four-year harassment campaign from the troubled father. According to a report on the case on the Eagle Country Online website:

[P]rosecutors argued that Brewington took his postings beyond being critical of the court system. They became personal against anybody who became involved with his case.

“This was sick revenge dragging my wife and kids into the matter,” Humphrey said during his testimony. “I don’t know of many cases where a subject has more clearly expressed his intent to do harm.” …

Brewington …  called [custody evaluator Edward] Connor a child molester and prostitute in his “Internet rampage,” contacted the Children’s Home of Northern Kentucky where Conner is involved as a board member, and sending mass e-mails to Connor’s colleagues and legal professional around the area. …

Connor’s wife, Dr. Sara Jones-Connor, reaffirmed what her husband shared with the judge.

“For over four years we have dealt with his attacks on a daily basis,” Jones-Conner said.

And Franklin leaves out the most serious of the accusations against Brewington: that he threatened to murder the judge.

Brewington’s cellmate at the Dearborn County Law Enforcement Center for two-and-a-half months, Joseph McCaleb, had sent a letter to jail officials on September 25 after being concerned with what he heard from Brewington.

 “He talked about following (Judge Humphrey) home, shooting him, and dumping him in the river,” McCaleb said of Brewington’s alleged “detailed and thought out” plan.

I should note that after testifying that Brewington’s threats seemed serious, McCaleb later concluded that they weren’t; and Judge Brian Hill did not take his testimony into consideration when sentencing Brewington.

Was Brewington’s sentence fair? I don’t know. But Franklin’s posting was misleading, to say the least, if not dishonest.  And while a few people raised questions about it, no one on the Men’s Rights subreddit bothered to spend the two minutes on Google that would have turned up the story I’ve been quoting from, instead relying entirely on Franklin’s, er, incomplete account.

Whether or not Brewington’s threats were sincere, Franklin’s post had Demonspawn and many others on the Men’s Rights subreddit thinking violent thoughts themselves. Here are some more selections from the discussion there. Note that every single violent comment I quote below got upvotes from the regulars.

Here, Boss_Money invokes the memory of Tom Ball, who killed himself in hopes that his dramatic suicide would encourage other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations:

Later in that same thread, coldacid suggests that suicide is a much less effective strategy than murder:

Anxdiety, meanwhile, shares his fantasies of violent “retribution.”

Boss_Monkey returns with a miniature manifesto for armed revolution:

And whats_up_doc suggests that violence may be the only solution:

The Men’s Rights subreddit is by and large the most “moderate” of all the major Men’s Rights forums online. But this is the language, and the thinking, of a hate movement. Anyone who really cares about improving life for men needs to call this kind of thing out, and make clear that it is completely unacceptable in any rights movement worthy of the name.

301 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
AbsintheDexterous
12 years ago

wait, the thing your indignant about now is that we trusted a person who has a history of not lying to us? in what world does that make sense.

I’ve been sitting here pondering this very same thing. I mean, is it some kind of “gotcha – you blindly follow David” kind of thing? Because that’s the only way that it makes sense, if you squint with your right eye a little and tilt your head. Is this what it has come down to? “See? You’re a feminist echo chamber because you believe someone has some solid evidence?”

Actually, that last part could apply to a lot of the MRA rhetoric.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
12 years ago

“Meller also has this insistent thing where he believes that as long as you only wish horrible doom on some people, instead of all people, you are wise and just. See, “murder everyone” would be terrible, but “murder blue-eyed people” shows great discernment!”

Sounds like Ruby’s “Oh, but it’s fine that I think prison rape is funny because I only think it’s funny when it happens to people who deserve it (like rapists)!”

nwoslave
12 years ago

@David Futrelle
“And, yeah, I really only censor/moderate when they go after individuals in a really nasty way. NWO is definitely staying on moderation, because he still does that from time to time.”

Yet anyone who who goes after me as an individual, which is everyone, has free rein to do so. Just another example of those in power dictating who can say what. Be that as it may, back to the topic at hand. The use of violence/non-violence in obtaining justice.

http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2012/07/05/indiana-dad-sentenced-to-five-years-for-criticizing-judge-custody-evaluator/

Here we have a man, proven to be an outstanding loving father totally devoted to his children. The feminist power structure infesting our courts decreed him unfit to have any rights to even visit his children. He had the audacity to criticize the prevailing feminist power structure and was sentenced to 5 years in prison.

If non-violent protest against the feminist power structure results in the violence of imprisonment, what course of action is left for the oppressed? How does one combat tyranny non-violently when the non-violent protests are met with ever increasing punishments of violence? How many children need be kidnapped? How many men need be extorted or imprisoned before violence is the only course of action left?

Pam
Pam
12 years ago

Know of any good critiques of “The Myth of Male Power,” Rutee (or anyone else)?

Michael Flood did a brief review of the book, and the review may still be available in the archives at xyonline.net

BigMomma
BigMomma
12 years ago

i started reading the myth of male power as part of the masculinities module i took as part of my (uncompleted) MA in Women’s Studies. i found it repugnant (this was in the mid 90s so my memories are fuzzy) and went on to try to discuss in my class (of me, one other student and the teacher) about how i thought gender roles were complete restrictive, that Farrell was peddling yet another false masculinity trope, that the gender binary was fucked up. this i remember more clearly than the book because they both sat there in shocked silence and eventually told me i was weird (in other words). i still remember the looks on their faces to this day.

i started working full time in a homeless shelter somewhere about then and the course fell by the wayside sadly. any critique of that book would be a good read for me!

pillowinhell
12 years ago

Tedious and tediouser….I can choose between the whoremaster or a smelly sock.

So…I’m playing Harvest moon and some of my animals are dying of old age? Is this a sign?

WordSpinner
WordSpinner
12 years ago

Here’s the review by Michael Flood from xyonline:

http://www.xyonline.net/content/book-review-myth-male-power-why-men-are-disposable-sex-warren-farrell

It isn’t particularly short, and it rips the book apart. Some quotes:

Farrel states that he withdraws from “that part [of feminism] that blames and plays victim.” It is therefore striking that blaming and playing victim is precisely what Farrell does on behalf of men, in his account of men’s powerlessness. Women exist in The myth of male power as greedy bitches who falsely accuse men of rape to get money or revenge, parasitic wives living luxuriously on the earnings of their overworked husbands, selfish avoiders of military combat, and cruel sexual rejectors.

What I found most offensive in The myth of male power were the chapters on rape and sexual harassment, probably because of my own involvement for three years in Men Against Sexual Assault. Men reading these chapters will gain an impression of a world in which false accusations by women are common. Farrell states that men are vulnerable because of new date rape and harassment laws, failing here to make a distinction between respectful, gentle sexual advances and intrusive and coercive ones. Women may be raped, but men are also the “victims” of “date robbery” and “date rejection”.

Farrell states early on that he will be “saddened if this book is misused to attack the legitimate issues of the women’s movement.” But by the end of the book, I can’t think of a single feminist issue that Farrell has not attacked, slandered or misrepresented. Farrell’s “legitimate issues” seem to boil down only to the right of women to enter paid work.

(first attempt at blockquotes, so we’ll see how this comes out.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

Farrel is a piece of work, and partly responsible for the “but you see, men can’t force women to give them sex on demand, and sometimes women say no even after you’ve prepaid them by being nice, therefore men don’t actually have any real privilege” school of thought that stinks up not just the MRM, but many other parts of online culture where lots angry men gather.

blitzgal
12 years ago

If anyone is curious, here is one document I was able to find about the divorce proceedings which Dan Brewington found SO UNFAIR. You will see that not only one but two attorneys bailed on him, and he ended up serving as his own attorney. You will see that he endlessly delayed the proceedings by filing motion after motion after motion, which were all dismissed, including a motion to replace the presiding judge, which is when Humphrey took over the case. After Brewington got his first judge thrown off the case he called him to testify. He filed twice for a mistrial.

What is explicitly clear when looking over this documentation is that this man is a harasser. He harassed his wife through the courts, he harassed the first judge on the case, and he harassed the second judge. He would probably benefit by talking to someone about his obsessive behavior. But in no way does he appear to be a victim of the court.

http://www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions/pdf/07201011.pdf

blitzgal
12 years ago

Also, the reason he was made to pay attorney fees is because he was personally responsible for dragging this case on for TWO YEARS before the divorce was finalized. DAMN STRAIGHT he owed her attorney fees for that bullshit.

blitzgal
12 years ago

Okay seriously, read the whole thing. Brewington also harassed his ex-wife’s divorce attorney by calling him up and making vague threats about firearms training. This man is very clearly a dangerous person.

Gametime
Gametime
12 years ago

NWO said:

Yet anyone who who goes after me as an individual, which is everyone, has free rein to do so. Just another example of those in power dictating who can say what.

Does NWO not know that anybody can start their own blog? It’s, like, super easy. Surely he doesn’t honestly imagine that David runs this blog because he’s part of some special privileged class?

I don’t know why I’m expecting NWO to display anything other than shocking ignorance about blogs, given his shocking ignorance about literally every other thing in the world, but for some reason this leaves me flabbergasted.

Stephen Blue
Stephen Blue
12 years ago

You want to see an MRA denounce this kind of a violence in the movement? Fine. I’m an MRA and I denounce violence in the movement. I don’t think murdering judges or women is an acceptable response to the injustice men face, although I do think the injustice men face is very real. Are you happy now?

I have sympathy for men who are pushed to commit suicide by divorce courts or their ex-wives. I do not have sympathy for men who murder judges, their wives, or especially not their children. MURDERING YOUR CHILDREN IS SICK. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Guess what, though? Now you have to stop saying no MRA ever denounces this stuff. I JUST DID and I am not the only one who does. I also think it is needs to be said that the men who commit these murders are a tiny fraction of those screwed over by unjusice and femae-supporting courts. Most men and most MRAs don’t do that, because most MRAs aren’t terrible people. But the pro-feminist, anti-male media likes to point them out and make a big deal of it to make MRAs, divorced fathers, and in men in general look bad.

Are there disurbed people in the MRA movement? Yes, but there are far more equally disturbed people in the feminist movement and the feminist movement is by nature disturbed, as it seeks to correct unjustices that were either never real, or long ago vanquished. Women retain both the old advantages of femininity by being able to force men to “provide” for them as well as gain male privileges such as voting and working outside the home. Men however, are still subject to many of their same prejudices and still work to benefit women.

Are some women discriminated agains? Yes, but not because they are women. Some women may be discriminated against due to being poor or gay or black, but that’s why they are being discriminated. Not because of their womanness.

Integral
Integral
12 years ago

NWO, my brother never met a job he didn’t quit and sometimes sells pot but he still managed to get full custody of his daughter. It’s common for fathers to have at least shared custody if they’re interested in their kids at all. The kind of people who make death threats: pretty safe to say the courts are correct in judging them not to be fit parents.

nwoslave
12 years ago

@blitzgal
“Okay seriously, read the whole thing. Brewington also harassed his ex-wife’s divorce attorney by calling him up and making vague threats about firearms training. This man is very clearly a dangerous person.”

Strange how a father who loves his daughters and will do anything to be with them is framed as you so delicately put it, “very clearly a dangerous person.” A man who is willing to sacrifice even his own freedom to be with his daughters is a danger? Sounds like a hero to me. In the court of womens law, to be a man is to be guilty. Forfeit your wealth, forfeit your children and forfeit your freedom. Now go write a story about how men won’t take responsibility for their children. Add +1 to the statistic of men not caring for their children.

In five years he’ll be released penniless, jobless, homeless, a criminal record and owing five years of child support backpay with interest. Congrats ladies! Job well done!

Cliff Pervocracy
12 years ago

Women may be raped, but men are also the “victims” of “date robbery” and “date rejection”.

Wow, there goes my last shred of “maybe Farrell is one of the reasonable, moderate ones.”

Strange how a father who loves his daughters and will do anything to be with them is framed as you so delicately put it, “very clearly a dangerous person.”

Threatening people isn’t doing anything to be with his daughters.

Controlling his impulses and working with the system even though he didn’t like it would be doing anything.

Real sacrifice isn’t always dramatic and “fun.” Sometimes real sacrifice is shutting up when you’re angry and saying “yes sir” when you want to say “fuck you,” because you’re willing to do anything to be with your children, and that’s what “anything” really looks like..

Rutee Katreya
12 years ago

Guess what, though? Now you have to stop saying no MRA ever denounces this stuff

Did you spend more time writing this little “OMG I HAVE REDEEMED THE MRAS” shit than you did telling the violent assholes to stop being violent assholes?

Are there disurbed people in the MRA movement?

You think these people aren’t in full possession of their faculties? Because there’s no evidence of that. Don’t foist this shit on people who aren’t neurotypical.

Yes, but there are far more equally disturbed people in the feminist movement

No. There aren’t.

and the feminist movement is by nature disturbed, as it seeks to correct unjustices that were either never real, or long ago vanquished.

Pay gap. Hiring gap. Promotion gap. Disparity in rape victimhood. Disproportionate number of people under the poverty line. Fuck off to your little slime pit.

Women retain both the old advantages of femininity by being able to force men to “provide” for them

No, they provide for their children. Do you think the little creatures are free to raise? Fuck, you think the cooking and cleaning of a century ago did itself, don’t you? That women didn’t work? Because they did work, they just didn’t get control of the pay they earned. Ignorant little asshat.

Are some women discriminated agains? Yes, but not because they are women.

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?s=Gender+wage+gap
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/04/052/the_enduring_gender_gap_in_faculty_pay
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/14/if-congress-looked-like-us/

Go the fuck away, jackass.

blitzgal
12 years ago

Yes, NWO. A man who spends four years harassing every single person with any tangential connection to his case, including the spouse of his judge and the spouse of his wife’s attorney is very clearly a dangerous person. The doctor who reviewed his competency during the custodial hearing advised him to seek mental health treatment, and indicated that he showed markers of men who go on to physically harm their families. But keep pretending that these abusers are just loving fathers, even after they go on to murder their children, like Aaron Schaffhausen did just this week in River Falls, WI.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

Fuck NWO. No one here, probably including the other MRA (Stephan Blue) agrees that the following is ever acceptable behavior —

“Brewington also harassed his ex-wife’s divorce attorney by calling him up and making vague threats about firearms training. This man is very clearly a dangerous person.”

It doesn’t fucking matter why he did it, intent is still not magic.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

*Stephen — sorry!

kobold77
12 years ago

Yo Slavey if Dan Brewington is a hero in your book then what is your opinion about Timothy McVeigh? Jesse James? Hell, Erich Bauer from WW2?
I mean, I am sure I already know the answers but if you want to spout off you’re usual clueless bullshit you might as well make some contributions to the Book of Larnin’.

Unimaginative
12 years ago

Holy fuck. I just tried to google a story about a man in Quebec who burned his house down with him and his two kids inside it, apparently in protest over how long his divorce proceedings were taking. Google came up with stories about men burning down their houses, WITH their children inside, in Washington, Illinois, Oregon, Kentucky, and California, all dated from 2012. And the Quebec one didn’t even come up on the front page.

Holy fuck.

Gametime
Gametime
12 years ago

Are some women discriminated agains? Yes, but not because they are women. Some women may be discriminated against due to being poor or gay or black, but that’s why they are being discriminated. Not because of their womanness.

Wow, it’s bad enough when MRAs try to push the “women might have it bad, but men are just as oppressed!” line, but you don’t often get self-proclaimed “moderates” trying to argue that sexism against women doesn’t exist at all.

How do you explain the fact that the U.S. government is overwhelmingly made up of men, then? Are you one of those dunderheads who thinks the absence of women in positions of power is proof that women are controlling things from behind the scenes?

blitzgal
12 years ago

Google came up with stories about men burning down their houses, WITH their children inside, in Washington, Illinois, Oregon, Kentucky, and California, all dated from 2012. And the Quebec one didn’t even come up on the front page.

I just had the same experience when I was looking for the name of the guy who murdered his children because they were starting to remember details of the night he probably killed his wife and dumped her body in a campground. Josh Powell is the name of the guy I was remembering, and he killed them in February of this year. But a crapton of stories of men killing their children by burning them in their home came up.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
12 years ago

“Holy fuck”

NWO, care to weigh in on either whether burning your house down with your kids inside is ever excusable, or whether “holy fuck” is an insult directed at you personally because of your religion?

I’d prefer an answer to the first one personally.

1 4 5 6 7 8 13