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Clop clop clopping along with Epic Atheist Brony, MRA extraordinaire [UPDATE: Probably a troll.]

You remember the Men’s Rights Bronies we met not so long ago? Well, I have discovered another one, this one on Twitter! In addition to being brony and a “highly active MRA,” he is also – brace yourself for this – an atheist who loves to wear fedoras and talk in public about what he likes to do with his penis. (And they say stereotypes aren’t true.) His personal creed? “Love & tolerance.”

Anyway, his name is Epic Atheist Brony, and here’s his Twitter profile.

[NOTE: Mr. Brony seems to be a troll. See update below for details.]

Here are some recent highlights from his Twitter timeline. (Note: “clopping” is Brony slang for masturbation.)

Love & tolerance, everyone!

But you gals will have to enjoy your love & tolerance in the kitchen, while the clearly superior Epic Atheist Brony whacks it to cartoon ponies and tweets about which cartoon ponies his penis likes the most.

UPDATE: It seems likely that Mr. Brony is a troll/Poe. “His” original Twitter profile pic was a photo of a guy in a fedora, supposedly him. Trouble is, the actual guy in the pic stepped forward and explicitly denied being Mr. Brony (and, for that matter, being a “sexist fucktarded meme-spewing Redditor.”) Here’s the pic the real fedora-wearing dude posted as evidence. Thanks to @mister_smiley on Twitter for the link.

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M Dubz
9 years ago

@cloudiah *ahem* *puts on Helpful Neighborhood Anthropologist Hat* While most cultures of which we have written record do have many roles broken down by gender, and in many cases the nature of those gender roles do leave women with less access to power, this is neither universal, nor universally expressed.

For example- In Ptolomeian (sp?) Egypt, women commonly owned property, had divorce rights, and many of the dynasty’s most powerful rulers were female. Compare that with contemporary Roman society, where women were traded like chattel, and only Vestal Virgins had freedom of movement.

For another example- Among the Trobriand Islanders, sex before marriage was common and normative, as was divorce. They also thought kissing was gross 😀

Lots of other examples available upon request, but those were the two I could think of off the top of my head.

M Dubz
9 years ago

Part of the issue re: gender roles is that (as has been mentioned upthread) most historians and anthropologists have been male, or operated under a patriarchal model. Many male anthropologists, for example, have had difficulty gaining access to women’s rituals and bonding experiences when studying them in the field, while women have had better access to the rituals of all members of the community. There are some great ethnographies where multiple anthropologists, both male and female, have studied communities at different times, and come to radically different conclusions about gender roles and power in those communities.

M Dubz
9 years ago

See, for example, Malinowski’s extensive writing on the (male dominated) kula exchange in the Trobriand Islands, and Annette Weiner’s later look at (female dominated) funeral exchanges of skirts and banana leaf bundles. Both of these rituals have both economic and ritual importance to Trobriand society, but Malinowski completely ignored the importance of female exchange patterns because he was locked into a patriarchal way of thinking.

Weiner’s book is called Women of Value, Men of Renown.

Now I promise I’m shutting up about feminist interpretations of ethnographic theory.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Now I promise I’m shutting up about feminist interpretations of ethnographic theory.

You’re more than welcome to keep going as far as I’m concerned.

Nanasha
Nanasha
9 years ago

Thanks, David. You did a better job of making the point I was trying to make. Kink in and of itself is not necessarily problematic but how it often manifests absolutely IS. If we are willing to be critical to the manboobz we also have to be critical to ourselves.

And, by the way daeksidecat, I was not minimizing or attempting to explain away his behavior by calling out abuse. However, we must also realize that even the trolls are human and are just as likely to have had fucked up things happen to them that influences their perceptions and interactions. I find it funny that you find it perfectly ok to lambast someone for poor behavior until it becomes possible that person might possibly act that way for a reason that serives directly from abuse and sexist indoctrination.

As an abuse and rape survivor, I take these topics very seriously. And I find that atteepts to silence honest conversation about abuse and rape are nott conducive to good dialogue and understanding. It is your right to feel offended and triggered, but you already knew that this is a probability on this site (see the disclaimer at the top). You have the right to ignore me, disagree, even turn off your computer, but it is NOT your right to tell me what I can and cannot say or how I should express myself.

Thiis is yet another situation where I wish people could just beam understanding to one another. No matter how I attempt to phrase my thoughts in a respectful and inclusive way, it still manages to raise a wide swath of ire.

TheNatFantastic
9 years ago

@M Dubz

I am seconding Dracula’s interest in this topic.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

M Dubz, I’d like to hear more too. Beats reading Nanasha and the point missing each other over and over.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Thirding Drac’s interest.

Molly: I think it’s… telling… that there isn’t a kink (at least, that I’m aware of) for dressing women up in stereotypically male clothing to humiliate them. Also, I think a lot of it comes down to mindset? Sissification is a *very different* thing if you’re aware that dressing like a feminine woman isn’t actually humiliating in real life.

Viola: I would assume that “speciesqueer” is, a la genderqueer, related to species identification. I’m still backing “xenophile.” 😛

Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

I like how NWO’s latest argument is that France, India, and Japan have identical cultures.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Cliff: Identically different, no less.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

It’s especially funny considering that 2,000 years ago there was no France.

M Dubz
9 years ago

I am both flattered and humbled that you guys want me to keep going (I was an anthro major at a women’s college. This is basically what I spend 4 years of my life doing AND I MISSSS IT). I will have to crack open my theory binders when I get home.

Also, @Cliff- The Japanese had female warriors akin to samurai. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna_bugeisha. So that kind of disproves OWLY’s theory right there.

Myoo
Myoo
9 years ago

@Nanasha

As an abuse and rape survivor, I take these topics very seriously. And I find that atteepts to silence honest conversation about abuse and rape are nott conducive to good dialogue and understanding.[…]

But see, Nanasha, no one is trying to silence honest conversation. Obviously, people can talk about rape and abuse here, what they shouldn’t do is talk about other people’s rape and abuse without at least their acknowledgement, and they definitely shouldn’t try to use other people’s rape and abuse to diagnose their behaviour.
As an example, several gay, trans* and asexual people are told that they are that way is because they were abused, it is dismissive of people’s feelings and experiences.

And that doesn’t mean that:

[…]it perfectly ok to lambast someone for poor behavior until it becomes possible that person might possibly act that way for a reason that serives directly from abuse and sexist indoctrination.

Nwoslave is an asshole, it is perfectly ok to lambast him for his awful behaviour, but it is not okay to say that the way he acts is due to being abused.

cloudiah
9 years ago

Do go on, M Dubz. (I mean, once you have your binders.) This is exactly what I was hoping for. NWO won’t listen, but the rest of us will.

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

I fourth Drac’s interest, I’m actually looking into maybe studying cultural antrhopology in university if psych turns out to be less interesting than I imagined it would be.

M Dubz
9 years ago

@aworldanonymous- OMG DOOOOO IT. I started school as a psych major, took an athro class as a whim, and never looked back.

The problem that I found is that the American academy, when it comes to psych, is really invested in white Western middle class people as the Default Example. Studying cultural anthro allows you a keen glimpse into human psychology outside of what we often perceive to be normative. I spent a lot of time studying religion, which meant learning about spirit possession, faith healing, psychosomatic diseases (that kill), and why the Torah is magic (please note that I am being a bit flippant for effect here). And as you deconstruct the internal logic behind these commonly held beliefs that are so antithetical to what most Western Psychology would perceive as “standard” it gives you a greatly expanded view of the human condition.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@Owly

How is it possible that the exact same socialization took place 2000 years ago in France, Japan and India?

One word, Hijras. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia) (I have this feeling that we talked about this before here too, prolly refuting this brick wall’s ass as well). When you decide to flap your ignorant mouth about other cultures, make sure you know a little something about them first.

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

@ M Dubz

My experience might be a bit different considering I live in Canada, but I’ve got intro to psych and intro to cultural anthro lined up in my first year courses, so I’m giving both a shot.

M Dubz
9 years ago

Also, we have potential examples of individuals with potentially genderqueer presentations going back tens of thousands of years. While it’s impossible to say with 100% accuracy what these examples in the archaeological record might have meant while the individuals were alive, it’s a pretty good reminder that gender roles are never so cut and dry.

http://www.idavallen.org/artiklar/transvikings.html

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=gWYg1QBAFW0C&oi=fnd&pg=PA51&dq=siberia+warrior+woman+burial&ots=uCvc-Fq-iS&sig=dMxyQOXmTEHbzTyVVagFo4R_o3c#v=onepage&q=siberia%20warrior%20woman%20burial&f=false

M Dubz
9 years ago

@ shadow- I was JUST ABOUT to bring them up! And hijras have been around for a WHILE, they’re not exactly a new thing.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
9 years ago

Another vote for moar anthro stuff (not that you need more 😛 )! I’m a D&D’er, so stuff about real world cultures (and especially things related to gender and roles) is always useful for making shit up for fictional worlds, plus it’s just interesting stuff.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@aworldanonymous

Unfortunately, it’s more or less the same for us in Canada. If you’re at York I highly recommend Cultural Psychology. It was an amazing course, and it really puts things into a global perspective.

@M dubz

Yeah, being South Asian, I always find it amusing when Owly goes on about how everyone presented as their gender until feminism came along and fucked shit up. The hijra are so ubiquitous in our culture that you find reference to them literally everywhere. Which isn’t to say that genderqueer or trans people are treated better in South Asian societies.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
9 years ago

Getting back to the speciesqueer/xenophile for a moment, in paranormal* romances (especially erotica), anything sentient is game. Werewolves, vampires, aliens, shapeshifters of any variety, demons. Everything usually has a human form, but not always. I haven’t read them, but I’ve heard that there exist TWO (2!) separate stories that feature sex between a human-shaped woman and a sentient tree.

*sub-genre of romance, for those who don’t know, that encompasses any setting other than this Earth, of whatever time period.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
9 years ago

According to some research I did for a class a million years ago, there are a surprisingly large number of similarities between Indian and Japanese culture. (Of course, that statement immediately begs qualification, because WHICH Indian and Japanese cultures? But it surprised me at the time.)

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
9 years ago

Oh, and i’m liking “xenophile” as well, mostly because I like the word “xeno”. 😀

M Dubz
9 years ago

@ShadetheDruid-… I may or may not be writing an ethnography in my head of a matriarchal society based on the Nuer in West Africa and the Celts for a D&D setting. The idea of the society is that they are herders/warriors who place TREMENDOUS cultural value on sheep/ land and grazing rights and on clan loyalty. The Clan Mother’s word is law, and no decisions are made without her permission.

It’s based on this series of articles from the guy who writes Order of the Stick (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/5auSGfgpCb6Zh9QKBl3.html). Also, there are gnomes, and magic people who channel the energy of the Sun and Moon, often to disastrous results.

… I think we should be friends.

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

@ Shadow

I’m actually going to be going to Saint Thomas University in Fredericton, New Brunswick. While I suppose it’s not completely wise to be giving out this kind of information just anywhere, I honestly don’t think it can hurt here, since nobody here seem like the kind of people who’d want to harm me.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
9 years ago

😛

It’s been ages since I read Order of the Stick regularly, but I think I remember reading that article series. I’ll have to go take another look.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
9 years ago

nobody here seem like the kind of people who’d want to harm me

Beware the trolls, though. MRAs seem to have a fondness for tracking down people who offend them online and publishing their whereabouts in the hopes of inciting violence.

Do take advantage of campus security. Most places have safe-walk programs, and will do an orientation, so that you know what to do in scary situations before they happen.

M Dubz
9 years ago

@ShadetheDruid- The matriarchy bit wasn’t part of it, I just want to be able to play female warriors in future campaigns (when move and get back into RPGs), and a female-dominated society seemed like a good way to do that. Also, I LOVED that the particular article included lots of ways for POC to exist as main characters in that particular universe.

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

@ Unimagitive

I will keep that in mind, thanks for the advice.

Nanasha
Nanasha
9 years ago

@Myoo- I guess that I am having trouble understanding why it is totally fine to speculate that a troll must actually want to take on female gender roles and mock him for said speculation, but it is totally verboten to speculate about the possible roots of said troll behavior from the view of problematic gender role indoctrination and my mistaking of this troll for another who explicitly described his abuse at the hands of women as justification for his misogyny. I have admitted my error and yet still keep getting the “you are not allowed to even *think* about that sort of thing because that will minimize NWO’s experience, (even though he has not posted saying anything of the sort)” lambasting by several posters on here.

I thought we were supposed to mock and discuss, not silence and police people’s speculative thoughts. It is not as though I was speaking in absolutes or proposing to speak directly for anyone.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
9 years ago

M Dubz: It’s been years since I was actually involved in proper RP. I basically started with Neverwinter Nights 1 and played that for about 7 years (from when it was released). But since videos games tend to have a limited playing life (compared to tabletop RPG systems anyway), it basically had to end sometime. I mostly just design my own stuff now, even if I don’t get to use it (I tend to leave things half finished as well, so trying to use it wouldn’t be easy 😛 ).

Back in the day (this was before I was a feminist or that interested in social issues), we always tried to design stuff that wasn’t too “medieval style” (we wanted to do things differently than the standard, something new and interesting), so we ended up things that were pretty egalitarian almost half-unintentionally. At least in terms of binary gender; I wasn’t very knowledgeable back then so it was lacking in non-binary, trans, etc, but we tried to do things properly in terms of binary gender, race and sexuality at least.

That’s part of why i’m interested in social issues and how they relate to D&D (and fiction in general), since how we did things in D&D was pretty important in changing how I thought about things in the real world (it helped lay the groundwork at least).

Anyway, enough of my rambling. :O Can’t wait to see what knowledge you can throw at us.

Sharculese
9 years ago

@cliff

I like how NWO’s latest argument is that France, India, and Japan have identical cultures.

but do they use the same alphabet?

darksidecat
9 years ago

And, by the way daeksidecat, I was not minimizing or attempting to explain away his behavior by calling out abuse.

The issue was never you “calling out his behavior” it was about attacking him as a (supposed) victim of abuse, rape, or molestation and throwing that in his face. That’s not acceptable to do to anyone, including bad people.

However, we must also realize that even the trolls are human and are just as likely to have had fucked up things happen to them that influences their perceptions and interactions.

The fact that he’s human and may have legitimately experienced these things makes what you did more horrible, not less. You tried to internet diagnose someone using throwing their having been a victim in their face. That’s awful. This is a horrible thing to do to any person. I don’t defend NWO out of any love or respect for him as an individual, I do it here because of how fucked up and absolutely unacceptable your avenue of attack is against anyone.

I find it funny that you find it perfectly ok to lambast someone for poor behavior until it becomes possible that person might possibly act that way for a reason that serives directly from abuse and sexist indoctrination.

Again, I never criticized you for calling out NWO behaving badly, I called you out on engaging in attacking him as a suspected victim around his suspected victimization. If you want to say that NWO is being a fucking asshole and a sexist douche, by all means do, his having been (or not) an abuse victim wouldn’t excuse him in that, but bringing up someone else having been an abuse victim out of left field when you are arguing with them as an attack or to dismiss their opinions is fucked up and is victim blaming/attacking victims.

As an abuse and rape survivor, I take these topics very seriously.

This is irrelevant to your behavior.

And I find that atteepts to silence honest conversation about abuse and rape are nott conducive to good dialogue and understanding.

Attacking someone based on their status as a molestation or abuse victim is not an “honest conversation”, it’s an attack and a cruel one. And it is not fucking an “honest conversation” or “good dialogue and understanding” to act like you know someone better than they do based on the fact that they have been molested or abused, and it’s not “good dialogue or understanding” to dismiss people’s opinions on things on the grounds that they were abused on molested. That’s attacking victims.

It is your right to feel offended and triggered, but you already knew that this is a probability on this site (see the disclaimer at the top).

Stop trying to downplay your behavior by victim blaming. “It is your right to feel offended”, don’t fucking condescend at me. I am discussing your specific fucking behavior and what it does to people.

You have the right to ignore me, disagree, even turn off your computer, but it is NOT your right to tell me what I can and cannot say or how I should express myself.

If I don’t like seeing attacks on molestation or abuse victims by you, just leave? How insightful of you. If you “express yourself” by attacking a molestation and abuse victim and using fucked up narratives around molestation and abuse, I’ll continue to tell you to fucking stop it and to STFU.

And, again, I hate being fucking condescended to, this bullshit adds further insult, it doesn’t reduce the effect of your behavior and your words.

No matter how I attempt to phrase my thoughts in a respectful and inclusive way, it still manages to raise a wide swath of ire.

There is no respectful or inclusive way to attack and dismiss a molestation and abuse victim qua molestation and abuse victim.

Cliff Pervocracy
9 years ago

You really wanna double down on this?

I thought the difference between “mock for being a bigot” and “mock for maybe being a trauma survivor” is pretty goddamn self-explanatory.

(And we’ve never mocked an MRA for being feminine! We’ve mocked Meller about the dolls but not because they’re a girl thing, just because they’re a weird creepy thing.)

M Dubz
9 years ago

@Nanasha- Here’s the thing (and I’m putting this up here in good faith, don’t make me regret it). There is a difference between mocking a poster for something that he has directly avowed for hypocrisy and something which he has absolutely no control over. OWLY complains all the time that he can’t be a teacher/ is not allowed to spend more time with his niece and nephew, because it goes against male gender roles or he will be seen as a pedophile. We can mock this, because he is actively undermining himself by supporting strict gender roles.

HOWEVER, it is really fucking insidious to imply that someone is the way that they are because of something that happened to them beyond their control. Not everyone who is an asshole is an asshole because of damage. Not all people with traumatic experiences in their past is an asshole. While we all dislike OWLY a bunch, there are trauma survivors on this thread who are lovely human beings who stand up for justice. When you say that OWLY is the way he is because of abuse, you feed into a long-standing cultural narrative that the survivors of trauma are broken, twisted, sick individuals who are unworthy of compassion.

If that doesn’t convince you, maybe this will. You are HURTING other people on here who are trauma survivors. They asked you to stop. While you may not understand what you have done wrong right now, people on this forum (and I speak from personal experience, as someone who has pretty badly fucked up in this space) tend to be cool with people who make a genuine apology, sit back, and take some time to actively think about why their behavior might have been offensive. Nobody will be extra mad at you if you do that, and not have it all figured out right now. The trick is to do the figuring out on your own time, instead of figuratively flailing around with your hurt feelings and damaging other people in the process.

Please note that I’m not being glib. It can hurt when you realize that you’ve fucked up or you feel like everyone’s ganging up on you, and that’s a valid response. You just have a responsibility to sort out your hurt feelings in private. If you never see what you did wrong, you may end up with some people on here you actively dislike. Other people may dislike you (see our interactions with Ruby). You may decide to leave. But if you keep going, you are actively hurting other people with your confusion, and that’s not okay.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Hey Nanasha, no one’s speculating about NWO and female gender roles. He said himself that one of the happiest times of his life were caring for his nieces and nephews, acts that are seen as female roles in this culture. So asking him why he’s not persuing a career in childcare isn’t speculating jackshit, it’s called reading what the man wrote.

viola
9 years ago

I want to make an argument here abot how we shouldn’t describe people as “xenophiles” because the word means other-love, and loving nonhuman sapients isn’t about fetishing their Otherness, but recognising their common people-ness 😀

In the game I’m drawing “species-queer” from, there is no such thing as foreign or ancient languages, so “xenophile” gets complicated, because is that a word we can even think of? And if it is, is it as academic as it sounds, or would common people use it? And then it’s just easier to say oh, yeah, so-and-so is speciesqueer for humans.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

@Nanasha: Signing on to support what Darksidecat, Cliff, M. Dubz, and Hellkell say. In fact, I’ve never seen a more beautifully laid out explanation of the problematics of internet diagnosing somebody than what DSC said. I hope you can understand this is not a pileon/attack on you, but an attempt to make a better space here (it isn’t meant to be safe in some of the ways other feminist spaces are, but one thing that impresses me about the people here is the ways in which certain behaviors are off limit, and the ways in which despite some of the horrific behaviors exhibited by trolls here, IF they say they were raped/abused, they are offered sympathy for that (just not for claiming it’s all a feminist plot).

M. Dubz gave you pricelessly good advice–I hope you can take it.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“According to some research I did for a class a million years ago, there are a surprisingly large number of similarities between Indian and Japanese culture.”

From what I’ve seen and read I think that Buddhism is part of the reason for this. The caste system in Japan that resulted in the creating of the Burakumin class, for example, is pretty directly tied to the introduction of Buddhism and the effect that it had on how society looked at certain types of work.

Nanasha, you can think whatever you like, because no one can read your mind, so if you must speculate about the origins of NWOs hatred for women then that’s your business, as long as it happens within the privacy of your own head. When you post something publicly that has potential implications that are damaging to a whole lot of people, though, that’s a different issue. It’s especially problematic when the potentially hurtful thing is said as part of what was clearly intended to be a smack-down. If you can’t see the difference between what you said and, say, what Shaenon said, I’m really not sure how to explain it to you because it seems so glaringly obvious.

scrapemind
9 years ago

In the game I’m drawing “species-queer” from, there is no such thing as foreign or ancient languages, so “xenophile” gets complicated, because is that a word we can even think of?

Why wouldn’t we be able to think of it? The meaning of the word doesn’t depend on it being formed from Greek roots. Or am I misunderstanding your objection?

I am interested in non-asshole things, e.g., languages.

VoIP
VoIP
9 years ago

@Myoo- I guess that I am having trouble understanding why it is totally fine to speculate that a troll must actually want to take on female gender roles and mock him for said speculation

Nanasha, I’ll mock NWO for being an idiot, I’ll mock him for being a racist, I’ll mock him for ignoring most of the female posters except when he decides to internet-stalk them, and I’ll mock him for his sexism. I will not mock him for the only thing I’ve seen in two years that appears to make him happy.

DSC and M Dubs have done wonderful jobs explaining why saying that he must have been abused is not only factually problematic but also unethical, and mocking someone for liking unconventional things would also be cruel. You seem like an OK person, if a bit quick on the verbal trigger. But if you think cruelty is the point of what we do here, you’re mistaken

VoIP
VoIP
9 years ago

High five M Dubz: cultural historian / gamer here. Have you seen the 7th Sea setting? They make the critique of sexism an explicit part of the game.

VoIP
VoIP
9 years ago

Also, since fucking WHEN is wanting to be a stay-at-home-dad identical with the “sissification” fetish? Are gender roles so incredibly central to you that any comparatively mild attempt to breach them is the same as a kink that not many people have?

VoIP
VoIP
9 years ago

In the game I’m drawing “species-queer” from, there is no such thing as foreign or ancient languages, so “xenophile” gets complicated, because is that a word we can even think of?

Why wouldn’t we be able to think of it? The meaning of the word doesn’t depend on it being formed from Greek roots. Or am I misunderstanding your objection?

I am interested in non-asshole things, e.g., languages.

I think what they were saying is that it’s ok if we use this word to talk about things in our universe, but in a fictional setting where Greek never existed, nobody would use Greek words to describe anything.

scrapemind
9 years ago

I think what they were saying is that it’s ok if we use this word to talk about things in our universe, but in a fictional setting where Greek never existed, nobody would use Greek words to describe anything.

Right, they’d coin an equivalent word out of native-language morphemes. In a world where Latin never existed, no one would use the word species either, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have a word for it.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Nanasha, NWO brags a lot about how he can clean an entire house, get groceries, do laundry, and fix three meals and two snacks in only one hour, even while taking care of babies and small children. I am very skeptical of his claims because I have actually worked at a daycare, I’ve watched kids out of my house, and I am raising two children of my own. While he minimizes how much work it takes to be a caregiver, he still talks about the lives of SAHM’s, nannies, and housekeepers as being greater than anything he could ever imagine. He described it as a vacation.

In the US, housework and childcare are coded as “women’s work”, but it’s what he loves doing the most. We mocked him because it’s not feminists that are keeping him from doing what he loves. It’s the MRM that’s convinced him that he is not allowed to go into pink collar professions, so instead he works a job he hates and then whines about how great SAHMs’ lives are.

Of course NWO also imagines all stay at home moms live a life like Ann Romney. He assumes that if a family lives on one income, they must be upper class. He doesn’t know about the reality for other parents, who live on one income because the other person’s income isn’t enough to pay for daycare, so working is more expensive than staying at home. He’s never read anything like The Motherhood Manifesto, The Second Shift, or The Truth behind the Mommy Wars to understand the choices moms make in their careers and lives.

I also roll my eyes at him saying SAHMs have it so easy when some have struggles like Cheryl Seelhoff, a woman that raised eleven children as a SAHM. While her husband’s job was decent paying, they still struggled. Their religion forbids them from taking government help in the form of food stamps, Medicaid, or public education, and they’re discouraged from ever going into debt. Seelhoff managed to feed her family of 13 with only $200 US a month, and while they lived in a schoolbus. This was from the book Quiverfull. So I also mock NWO for describing all SAHM’s as living a life of luxury even though what he describes is only for a tiny number of single income families.

None of this is speculation on my part. He goes on and on all the time about how moms* have it so great, and poor NWO has a job he hates. If he could stop his pity party for just one minute, he could actually go get one of those childcare jobs he envies so much. Hell, my cousin worked at a daycare when she was only nine years old. The parents had no idea a 4th grader was taking care of their babies while they worked. The industry is under regulated, and the regulations aren’t enforced very well (at least in MO). Daycares have a high turnover rate, because the job is so demanding while the pay is so low. I don’t think he understands this reality at all.

I mock NWO for how he envies everyone else and how he assumes everyone’s got it so much better than him. I’m sick of his martyr act and his attitude. He rants about subjects he knows nothing about, and when any of us correct him, he ignores it and repeats his same old BS again.

That being said, it’s still wrong to speculate on whether or not he is an abuse survivor. Trauma doesn’t make people into assholes.

*I guess stay at home dads don’t exist in his mind, or nonbinary parents either. Or any other type of legal guardian raising children. In NWOLand, all families are nuclear families just like on Ozzy and Harriet.

Nanasha
Nanasha
9 years ago

@M Dubs- Thank you for the useful and eloquently written response. It has given me a lot to think about and has helped me to understand the problematic nature of my original points.

I’m going to take a break for awhile.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@aworldanonymous

Oh cool. Did you grow up in Brunswick, or are you just going there for uni? If you have Cultural Psychology, or an analagous course I highly recommend you take it, especially if you decide to go the psych route (though it seems like it’s something that would interest you regardless of your major).

Re: personal information, I would always think twice about what you reveal on open fora when it comes to social justice or sexuality (there may be others, but these are what come to mind for me) because, even if the regulars are a decent group (which they are here), you never know who else is reading, and these types of fora tend to attract vehement detractors. I’m somewhat open about things like my uni and location because I’m in a densely populated area, but even still I’m cautious about it.

And congrats on having a clue about what you want to do, it puts you head and shoulders over most people I knew (including me) when I graduated!