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Things I learned from Reddit: Feminists can’t be atheists. Also, they shouldn’t ever try to translate ancient Greek.

Things I learned on Reddit today.

1) From a_weed_wizard in the Men’s Rights subreddit, I learned that feminists cannot be atheists:

GirlWritesWhat agrees:

I’m not sure where those downvotes came from, since everything GirlWritesWhat says is by definition true.

2) From AskHistorians, I learned that feminists trying to correctly translate ancient Greek are evil man-hating monsters. Check out the downvotes on EggyMc!

Obviously, she’s retranslating with malice aforethought!

In this case, it’s easy to tell where at least some of the downvotes are coming from:  A link on the Men’s Rights subreddit.

MRAs: protecting ancient Greek history from MISANDRY since 2012!

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VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Hey Andy I found an article about you
try to read more than just the first sentence this time
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/07/09/sex-lies-and-fetishizing-race/

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

(nobody read the comments, though; the second one called a woman who was proud of having gotten a doctorate “classist” and then they all yelled at each other for 146 comments. Christ the Feministe commentariat annoys me.)

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

(nobody read the comments, though; the second one called a woman who was proud of having gotten a doctorate “classist” and then they all insulted each other for 146 comments. Christ the Feministe commentariat annoys me.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Those comments reminded me why I rarely comment at Feministe.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

I think my favorite was the time the Hugo Schwyzer story broke (a bunch of people at Feministe were defending him, fyi), and one guy said he knew Schwyzer had been up to no good from the beginning because Schwyzer had a degree in medieval history, which was an example of class and race privilege.

Nothing about how academia has been racist, nothing about how a lot of our historical narratives have valorized white Europeans at the expense of others, he should not have gotten the degree itself.

ಠ__ಠ

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“OT: accessibility mavens, what’s a good screen-reader-compatible HTML tag to use to italicize foreign-language text? <em> isn’t right because it’s not emphasis.”

Oi, the lang attribute…ignoring that support is questionable, it isn’t an HTML tag but an attribute that goes inside an HTML tag, so you could do <i lang=”fr”> to get both the italics (for print) and the language tag (for screen readers). Replace fr with the language code you need (fr is French). If you just want to add the language attribute without otherwise affecting the text, use <span lang=”fr”> — idk if the WP back-end here will allow span tags though, so I’d stick with <i>.

Support is questionable though, only a handful of languages are supported without a plug-in.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Between Ruby ruining atheism for the rest of us with her stupidity (and causing a conversation full of generalisations and misunderstandings) and Owly’s penis, i’m now regretting going back and reading this entire thing. o.o

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

“Between Ruby ruining atheism for the rest of us with her stupidity (and causing a conversation full of generalisations and misunderstandings) and Owly’s penis, i’m now regretting going back and reading this entire thing. o.o”

I haven’t… yet. I’m mixed between fear and morbid curiosity.

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
8 years ago

I want to hear you gals opinions on some other things though

Here are two opinions I have:

1. I like apostrophes when one is trying to show possession. In this case, “gals’ opinions.”
2. I do not appreciate being called a “gal.” It’s demeaning dressed up as folksy.

Other commenters may have other opinions. Contrary to what you may or may not have heard, feminists are not actually a Borg hivemind.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“I’m mixed between fear and morbid curiosity.”

Be warned — NWO talked about his “woody” so much that David told him to stop. (I’m trying to ignore that)

Re: Greek gods/goddesses — Hera’s husband, Zeus, overthrew his father (Chronos) because his father ate his siblings…the MRM could find better examples of Greek myth being anti-male in other words. (Of course, afaik, that’s been the tradition of Zeus’s birth since ancient times, so blaming feminism would be pretty hilarious)

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

Too late.
Brb, I need some brain bleach.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I’m sorry I missed Andy.

I have an interesting perspective on life and want to hear what you gals think about some things i believe your reactions, etc

I’m so sure, cupcake. A troll has never made me laugh this hard.

Ward Chanley
8 years ago

“Apparently feminism is a religion because it means you believe, uh, women exist?”

Not to make too much of it, but I wonder how much of it is mouthbreathing over the emergence of things like women’s spirituality/dianic witchcraft in the seventies? (Not, of course, that all feminists were neopagans, or that those movements are even particularly active these days…they may be, but it’s been a while since I was spiritually inclined in any particular direction, so I haven’t looked, lately).

It’s a stretch, I know…

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
8 years ago

My girlfriend is more fiesty than I am. She is anything, but submissive.

Yes, and the Panda eats, shoots, and leaves. This is why commas, matter.

Ward Chanley
8 years ago

“Who cares why prude. A woody is a man giving women a compliment. Woodys are beautiful. Women lust after mens woodys. Enough with the body shaming sweetheart.”

Well, technically, my erections are typically a compliment to my boyfriend, but eh. I’m a guy. Cute guys I’m not madly in love with sometimes cause bodily reactions, too. The point I gathered was less about the woody than the *little girls*. But hey, I read, so there’s that.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

I’m going to assume Andy will be back after he sleeps it off.

Andy:

What I have found, is that you gals reputation is not just in tatters with lonely American men, but also with people the world over.

Care to present your findings?

Seriously, I always wonder why this is supposed to be a dig. “Oh no, some random guy on the Internet made an unsubstantiated assertion that men don’t want to be with me! Whatever will I do?”

Not many people actually care, I think. Even the ones into dudes. Even the ones into dudes who aren’t in relationships.

Andy:

I think what you guys fail to see, is that both guys and girls can get fucked over in life and you generalize all guys as the same.

“All you feminists generalize all the time!”

Andy:

I don’t know what point I’m trying to make.

Join the club.

op. cit.:

Basically what I’m saying is, I know what its like to be a lonely guy and be rejected and also to be accepted and be with a beautiful girl who loves to dress up sexy when we go out and be my best friend, talk about politics with, and shoot the shit with.

M3 T00, and yet I manage not to go around saying “American women are unlovable skanks”. Actually, there’s a vast buffet of MRA talking points I find myself refraining from.

(Given the first name on my ID, I’d actually like to go to Prague — that and Baltimore are the only cities in which I feel properly respected, though Boston tries its best. But it has nothing to do with the women or hating America.)

Andy:

why are you guys attacking some girl you don’t know?

Andy:

I think the mrm people make some decent points.



Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

“Look, I just think American women need to get a grip on reality,” Andy 1:48 AM

“…but that is stereotyping…people are different and unique doesn’t matter the country.” Andy, 1:52 AM

We should for real start rating trolls by the shortest number of minutes passed between making a statement and contradicting that statement.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Re: Taiping Rebellion

Both sides did use conscription tactics. Taipings often went into villages to compel local people to serve. The Qing army , on the other hand, was pretty much all compulsory. Manchu noblemen served in the cavalry and the sharpshooter brigades as part of the requirements of their position, and most of their frontline infantry were Han conscripts. Most of the navies of both armies was simply stolen from private shipowners and repurposed.

However, the single most disastrous example of the draft was, by far, the Soviet Army in WWII. Universal conscription had been in effect since 1925, so there was no distinction whatsoever between volunteers and enlistees. Soviet forces suffered approx. 9-10 million casaulties, beating out every other example of the draft in world history by a mile.

Steele, it you’re still reading, please, please try to make the case that Stalin’s USSR was institutionally misandrist. It would make you my most favorite troll ever.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Oops, wrong thread! Sorry guys!

Maniacal Goblinoid Nightmare Woman
Maniacal Goblinoid Nightmare Woman
8 years ago

Others must have pointed it out but the “beautiful” son bit’s just a parent concerned that their nerdy, pretty boy is probably gonna have the shit kicked out of him living in America but that’s not feminism’s fault, that’s just America being set up to reward the more selfishly conservative mind set again. Please, “Andy”, when looking to piece together why society in The Czech Republic (?) is different to America, be very skeptical of MRA’s, as they’ve been raised just as clueless as you. At least you’ve got a chance to step back and take a look at how things operate.
Listen to this lot. If they object to worlds like “feisty”, listen to them to try and understand why. You arrived here from an MRA site, picked up their philosophy…why not tell the MRA sites what you learned here and see how they respond. Hopefully you’ll work things out eventually.

And please “you lot”, to a lot of people round the world, “choice” feminists are every bit cluelessly awful as your young, white, Ron Paul supporters and dating them sounds round about as fun as dating Ayn Rand. Wishing not to interact with selfish people like that simply isn’t the same thing as wanting to marry someone who’s being oppressed.

Amused
8 years ago

I don’t know what point I’m trying to make. Basically what I’m saying is, I know what its like to be a lonely guy and be rejected and also to be accepted and be with a beautiful girl who loves to dress up sexy when we go out and be my best friend, talk about politics with, and shoot the shit with. I still got some pent up anger from not having quality relationships in the states.

What exactly does the beautiful girl get out of it? I mean, YOU are not beautiful, are you? /Are you HER best friend? Do you even know if you are? What are her interests, her dreams, her aspirations — besides just being there for you, that is? Or does she exist solely to serve your wants and needs (including propping up your sad ego by dressing like a bimbo when you go out)?

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

@Hershele:

Seriously, I always wonder why this is supposed to be a dig. “Oh no, some random guy on the Internet made an unsubstantiated assertion that men don’t want to be with me! Whatever will I do?”

Not many people actually care, I think. Even the ones into dudes. Even the ones into dudes who aren’t in relationships.

This is so true. Sometimes trolls come in with with their “no man will ever want you!” nonsense and I feel like saying “well, won’t my boyfriend be surprised!” But even if I didn’t have a partner, I wouldn’t give a damn if these particular dudes consider me dateable. I’d rather be on my own forever than be with someone I need to compromise myself for.

scrapemind
8 years ago

I think what you guys fail to see, is that both guys and girls can get fucked over in life and you generalize all guys as the same.

Andy is wrong. Feminists think generalization is sinful. Feminists are too easy on men, because they think that socialization, or possibly lack of it, can cure men of their criminality.

blitzgal
8 years ago

What’s the “Hugo Schwyzer story?” I totally missed that but keep seeing references to some sort of scandal or fallout about him on various blogs.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

“I think my favorite was the time the Hugo Schwyzer story broke (a bunch of people at Feministe were defending him, fyi), and one guy said he knew Schwyzer had been up to no good from the beginning because Schwyzer had a degree in medieval history, which was an example of class and race privilege.”

Well, obviously. Degrees are terrible and no one should get them, especially if they’re in subjects that don’t have a clear and immediate practical application. Anti-intellectualism has a fine tradition among some leftists and doesn’t mean we’re shooting ourselves in the foot at all.

Sometimes the Feministe comments remind me of one of those social justice Tumblrs where kids are complaining about how their mom doesn’t understand her diurnal privilege.

ithiliana
8 years ago

Blitzgal: it’s epic! BUt here’s a quickie overview:

http://studentactivism.net/2012/01/22/hugo-schwyzer-is-still-doing-harm/

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Re Hugo

He wrote a post about how he once tried to kill his ex-girlfriend because she was raped and (he decided) her life was ruined. He was intending it to be a murder/suicide, but somehow they were rescued (can’t remember how). The point of this story was supposed to be about how this was a transformative experience for Hugo that was important to his recovery and oh look what a wonderful person he is now that he found God and yadda yadda.

It was one of the most disgusting displays of self-absorption that you’ll ever read. No real sense of guilt, no desire to make amends – it was all about Hugo and his journey of self-discovery.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

scrapemind — so wait, men are inherently criminal? But feminism is wrong? I really can’t tell if you’re pro-MRM, or just pro-ev-psych. If you’re pro-prison-rape you should get together with Ruby.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“He was intending it to be a murder/suicide, but somehow they were rescued (can’t remember how).”

You can’t remember how because he couldn’t keep that part of the story straight — in one version it was the neighbor’s smelling gas, in another it was some shit about how he wanted to be saved and called a friend.

And he posted that all because someone asked him how to forgive himself for letting a dog out in coyote territory (the dog was fine) — he compared trying to kill his ex (and himself) with accidentally letting a dog loose.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’d forgotten the bit about the dog. Hugo’s ability to avoid taking responsibility for his actions really is kind of amazing. Attempted murder is an accident, like unintentionally letting the dog out. Is the oven a stand-in for the coyotes in this scenario?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Attempted murder is an accident, like unintentionally letting the dog out. Is the oven a stand-in for the coyotes in this scenario?”

He claimed it was an poorly thought out example or something similar — about the only thing he’s ever said that I’ll believe actually. I don’t recall it being poorly thought out because he did something so much worse though, just poorly thought out in general.

In other words, he yet again failed to take responsibility for what he said and basically attributed it to lack of coffee (or whatever, I guess he’d see coffee as not being “post addiction Hugo”).

And then he took the post down because of some vague legal thing, but assured his readers he isn’t being sued or arrested or anything like that. I know children with more sense of responsibility than him >.<

Oh, he also described the post-rape sex he had with his ex as “desperately hot” — the whole thing made slime molds seem less slimy than him.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Ugh Hugo!!

I’m not sure what the feminist community ever saw in him…most times I read his work I felt I needed to take a shower, he had some powerful stink about him that I had a difficult time putting a finger on

scrapemind
8 years ago

scrapemind — so wait, men are inherently criminal? But feminism is wrong? I really can’t tell if you’re pro-MRM, or just pro-ev-psych. If you’re pro-prison-rape you should get together with Ruby.

The higher your testosterone, the more prone you are to crime. That’s why men are more criminal than women. I don’t believe in feminism or the cargo cult attempt at a male equivalent to feminism. Ruby seems to be too biological determinist for feminists to accept her as one of them, but there’s no reason for me to get together with her. Prisons shouldn’t allow rape, and it’s not funny because it happens to a criminal.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Here’s a lovely irony given how the MRM feels about both the word creep and Hugo – that feeling that pillowinhell is talking about? It’s there because Hugo is a creep. He’s also not bad looking, from a rich family, and tall, all of which are supposed to be things that lead to men not being seen as creepy according to the people who whine about the use of the word creepy. And yet still, lots of women find Hugo very creepy indeed, and did even before his “btw I kind of tried to kill my ex, oopsie” revelation.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

The higher your testosterone, the more prone you are to crime. That’s why men are more criminal than women.

Really? A direct, causal relationship? Well I suppose that would be almost impossible to show, but a study showing a high correlation between crime and testosterone levels would be fascinating! I’d love to see your source.

The samples couldn’t be entirely random, obviously, since the criminals would most likely have to be pulled from the prison system. A matched study, then? The authors of your source selected a number of inmates, and matched them to non-incarcerated controls that are relatively similar in terms of SES, race, age, gender, etc.? Matched studies are not very generalizable, which is why they’re not particularly common, but it would have the benefit of helping to overcome confounding variables that lead to incarceration — race being the big one, of course. Then, they measured the testosterone of the participants in both the active and control groups, and found the active group to have significantly higher levels? Wow! Please, I’d love a link, this study sounds very interesting.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Ruby seems to be too biological determinist for feminists to accept her as one of them, but there’s no reason for me to get together with her. Prisons shouldn’t allow rape, and it’s not funny because it happens to a criminal.”

Viscaria answered the rest, but this bit? Pre-“prison rape is hilarious” we grudgingly dealt with her desire to ev-psych everything — e.g. women want wealthy men because ev-psych (I’m still waiting for an answer as to how artists manage to get laid then)

Cassandra — re: Hugo and “creep” — I had to screen shot this when it happened because ALL THE IRONY — he did a piece at Jezebel on creep-shaming.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@ Argenti

I read that! From what I remember there were a lot of comments going “um, so…don’t you think this is a little…um…”.

scrapemind
8 years ago

Viscaria, I can’t speak the language of science as you can, but the point is that men are universally more criminal than women. I can’t show that testosterone causes it, but that’s no reason for me to drop everything and believe that any sort of society can exist, even one where women are more criminal than men.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

scrapemind, I wasn’t trying to fling a bunch of high-falutin’ words at you to make you feel bad. The reality is, my scientific education is far from extensive; I haven’t even managed to complete a Bachelor’s degree. It just happens that what little education I have received focused on human participants research, so I know some of the lingo.

But you don’t need to know the lingo to grasp the point I was trying to make, and should have made in simpler terms: claiming that testosterone causes crime is a huge, huge claim. It’s one that sweeps away dozens upon dozens of other factors that may contribute to crime, many of which have already been examined in the social science literature. You can’t simply state that massive claim matter-of-factly, as if it were something “everybody knows”, without backing it up with something.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Let’s start with defining “more criminal” then eh? Plenty of cultures have had no concept of criminality that compares to modern Anglocentric definitions (and that’s ignoring the problem of whether drug possession should actually be counted here).

Here, simple non-science question — upon what exactly do you base this view? Are we having more BRAINFAX? (You might want to start with this wiki — which basically sums to “it is actually socialization”)

Ward Chanley
8 years ago

Wishing not to interact with selfish people like that simply isn’t the same thing as wanting to marry someone who’s being oppressed.

I’m not sure I understand the intersection of “you’re being oppressed” and “therefore, I should marry you.” If someone’s being oppressed, my first reaction is, “hey, can I do anything to stop that?”

Veronica K. B. (@VeronicaInPink)

Feminist: Check
Atheist: Check

Do I approach feminism from a point of faith? No.
I applied critical thinking and rational thought and found that feminism mostly makes a lot of sense. Aside from bigoted radicals that is.

scrapemind
8 years ago

Veronica, everyone will know you’re trans if you take gratuitous shots at radical feminists.

Veronica K. B. (@VeronicaInPink)

No problem. It is stated pretty clearly on my Twitter profile anyway.

Snowy
Snowy
8 years ago

Hey scrapemind why don’t you fuck off and stop obsessing about other people’s gender identities?

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

+1 to Snowy. Like, what the hell?

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

Viscaria:

Sometimes trolls come in with with their “no man will ever want you!” nonsense and I feel like saying “well, won’t my boyfriend be surprised!”

I don’t want to tell people how to troll-stomp, but that reply always seems like validating the premise. Surely women don’t turn to feminism to find boyfriends anyway, and if that’s a turn-off, good riddance.

But again, I don’t want to tell people how to troll-stomp, and I’m seeing it only from the outside; as a man(gina), I get a different set of insults.

scapemind:

Viscaria, I can’t speak the language of science as you can

“You used big words, that makes me right and you wrong.”

(Also, I’ve been trying not to mock people’s nyms, because low-hanging fruit, but I couldn’t resist.)

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

There seems to be a lot of transphobia among radical feminist. TERFs are assholes. Am I trans yet? Does that mean I a man or am I the first FAAB trans woman?

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

I don’t want to tell people how to troll-stomp, but that reply always seems like validating the premise.

Yeah, I totally agree, that’s what I tried (very poorly) to express. It’s like when people say “feminists are ugly!” sometimes my first thought is to object, to point to “pretty” feminists, etc., but that’s paying attention to the wrong thing. The important thing is that it DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER if we’re all hideous women that nobody would ever want; and I don’t want to be with anybody who doesn’t get that. I hope that’s clearer >.> I am terrible with words sometimes.

Veronica K. B. (@VeronicaInPink)

I know a good number of cis feminists, and they aren’t TERFs by a long shot.

scrape-dude probably just checked my Twitter profile. As if “outing” me would make any difference to my post.

He also seems to think that my dismissal of parts of radical feminism was gratuitous, as if I needed other reasons than the fact that I’m a target of their bigotry. Or maybe “gratuitous” is another one of those big sciency words he don’t understand.

In any case, just because some people use feminism as a platform for their hatred, doesn’t mean that is what feminism is about. It won’t make me less of a feminist, on the contrary in fact.