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Spinning the Eivind Berge arrest: Reddit vs. The Spearhead

Berge: Too provocative for his own good?

The spinning of Norwegian Men’s Rights blogger Eivind Berge’s arrest for threatening police officers has begun.

Over on Reddit, the leading hangout for the Men’s Rights movement’s  “moderates,” most MRAs seem to want to have nothing to do with Berge’s extremism (which is good), to the extent that many of them are declaring him not an MRA at all (which is ridiculous).

Sorry, guys. Berge may literally be the world’s worst MRA, and one that most MRAs have been content to ignore, but he’s still an MRA. He’s described himself as such many times (e.g., here); he has many of the same views and obsessions as “mainstream” MRAs; and he’s even got a few outspoken MRA fans.  And while some Reddit Men’s Rightsers were distancing themselves from Berge in the wake of his arrest, others were respectfully discussing a blog post from Berge’s girlfriend Emma the Emo (who shares many of his views) taking aim at what she called “American pedophile hysteria.”

Over on the Spearhead, the more reactionary W.F. Price has a rather different spin on Berge, as encapsulated by the title of his blog post on the subject: “Eivind Berge Arrested for Provocative Rhetoric.”

Evidently, threatening to stab a police officer (and announcing the day on which you plan to do so) is merely a sort of rhetorical flourish.

It’s a strange and often incoherent post, in which Price seems to argue that Berge’s threats don’t count as real threats because … he made them publicly? Here, you make sense of it:

Eivind Berge has been posting some pretty provocative stuff for quite a while now, including his desire to kill police for enforcing misandric laws. I agree with his girlfriend that it was a bunch of hot air, but he got arrested for it anyway. Despite his support for Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year, I seriously doubt Eivind would have carried out any violent acts. Breivik, who really meant business, kept his plans to himself.

The truth is that people who manage to pull off spectacular terrorist attacks are almost always those who don’t say anything about them beforehand. Think Mohammed Atta vs. James Ujaama.

Yeah, it’s not like Osama bin Laden ever made threats about attacking the US. Or that abusers who threaten their exes ever actually harm them. Or any of a million other examples in which someone who issues a threat carries out said threat.

The lesson here is that if you want to be political, there’s a sort of tortoise/hare dynamic at work. The impetuous, fast hare tends to run out of steam (or run into trouble with the law) fairly quickly. The slow-and-steady tortoise, on the other hand, keeps trudging on and wins the race. …

[T]hreatening to kill people openly and loudly is essentially worthless.

Is Price really equating terrorists who plot their attacks secretly with the slow-and-steady tortoise who wins the race?

Who the hell knows. But he is clearly offering an apologia for making violent threats on the dubious grounds that those who threaten their enemies openly are somehow therefore not dangerous.

Later Price offers this completely clear cut and definitive repudiation of violence.*

We shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking that violent action will do us any good. Of course violence does work, but the power of the state is so overwhelming today that individual acts are almost certain to fail. Furthermore, those who are willing to unleash violence on others must be prepared to die themselves, and must lead by example. Somehow, I don’t think many of us have reached that point. It’s a long road to get there, and I hold out the hope that it will never go that far.

[T]he point is that anyone who condones violent action loudly and publicly, but doesn’t back it up, can’t be taken seriously.

In the comments, Eric complains that men who commit violence for putatively political reasons may suffer the indignity of being called bad names:

As we have all seen repeatedly, violence against men is socially and politically sanctioned violence. A man committing violence in defense of his rights is labelled a ‘terrorist’ or an ‘extremist’. The case of Thomas Ball is a perfect example. …

The feminist elites are bullies who are aware of their power and our inability to ‘push back’ in any way that will cause them deserved pain (at least for now). But like all bullies, they are also rabid egomaniacs and fear anyone who doesn’t bow slavishly to their power. The more men who are informed as to their true nature and who are taught to despise them, the weaker these bullies become because their fear of exposure and losing their power is a mania.

I guess Eric’s main beef is with the English language. I’m pretty sure that using violence to cause “deserved pain” in an attempt to intimidate your political enemies is basically the dictionary definition of “terrorism.”

Further down in the comments, Eric sets forth a curious little conspiracy theory involving, well, me. In one comment, he suggests that the attention I’ve given to the Berge arrest

illustrates that the anti-MRM forces are primed and ready for a ‘false flag’ or provocateur-instigated ‘incident’. … The feminist elites have noticably shifted from typical ridicule to painting the MRM as a dangerous extremist movement.”

In a followup comment, he elaborates on this peculiar logic:

Futrelle … does seem unusally worked up. …

I have the feeling that something ominous is in the wind.

This kind of language out of the Mangina League; the SPLC’s attention; the spate of troll and provocateur attacks and hacking on mens’ blogs; this crap going on in Scandanavia—there’s definately a pole-shift among our enemies and it stinks of orchestration.

I’m pretty sure I didn’t make up many years worth of threatening comments from Eivind “killing at least one cop is on my bucket list” Berge. So does this mean that Berge is some sort of deep-cover feminist operative? What does that make Paul “fucking your shit up gives me an erection” Elam?

*

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mayfly
mayfly
8 years ago

Wow, Price sounds awfully approving of Breivik. Sick.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

“Of course violence does work and i’d get away with it too if if it weren’t for that meddling state!”

I think that’s what he meant to say.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Futrelle … does seem unusally worked up. …

I have the feeling that something ominous is in the wind.

…Is he implying David has trapped gas?

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

The MRM is really starting to rustle my jimmies. It makes me sad that I used to be one of them.

nwoslave
8 years ago

Since the NDAA is a threat to all citizens in the US, why isn’t Obama in prison?

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Ah yes, the typical abuser “its totally a setup!” Get out of jail setup. Because , you know the women who shall not be named totally set those men up to make repeated graphic threats and then attempt to carry them through.

And actually, many of the mass murders have manifestos or tell people what they are planning to do and when. And then they carried through on it. Why? Because everyone poo pooed what they were saying, it was just to monsterous to believe.

Breivik had his little manifesto posted for quite some time. Several other mass murders (columbine etc) also told people parts of what they were planning.

Alex
Alex
8 years ago

“Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year”
Erm..that’s an, uh, interesting take on things he has right there.

Cliff Pervocracy
Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

I’m amazed how many MRAs can say “Futrelle is making us look bad by pretending we advocate violence/rape/misogyny!” in the same damn breath as advocating those things themselves.

The only thing that would make sense at this point is if W.F. Price is, in fact, David Futrelle.

Cliff Pervocracy
Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Since the NDAA is a threat to all citizens in the US, why isn’t Obama in prison?

NWO, it would seriously make my afternoon to hear you explain what you think the NDAA even is.

Go on, tell me…

Pigtail Guy
8 years ago

*Door breaks down, apartment is flooded with cops*
Officer: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say or do… (Yadda yadda).
Me: Wait, wait! Why am I being arrested?
Officer: We have no record of you ever threatening to kill a police officer. You are therefore under suspicion of plotting to kill a police officer.
Me: Huh?
Officer: He still hasn’t made any threats. Get him!

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

I just had to do this.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3q10pd/

Molly moon
Molly moon
8 years ago

MRAs on violence:

“This is a peaceful movement AND I’LL KILL YOU IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE!!!”

GingerSnaps
GingerSnaps
8 years ago

I love how murdering children is “decimat[ing] the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade”.

I almost lost family that day, you fuckwit.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Cliff Pervocracy

Overall, the signing of the NDAA leaves us with the impression that the current president has shown few significant differences from the Bush administration in terms of post-9/11 national security policy. The PATRIOT Act was renewed by Obama earlier this year, the Guantanamo Bay detention center remains open, and now the recently-signed NDAA has extended the powers of the military to include the detainment of American citizens indefinitely without trial.

And what makes a citizen a suspected terrorist? Speaking out against the govenrment. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food. Owning more than 1 gun.

There are loads more things listed as to what could make someone a suspected terrorist, however, those three things alone make everyone a suspected terrorist. Silly girl.

carswell
carswell
8 years ago

Despite his support for Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year, I seriously doubt Eivind would have carried out any violent acts.

During the year and half or so that I’ve been dipping the occasional toe in the cesspool that is the Spearhead – thanks David – I’ve noticed that Price is getting progressively more unhinged in his opinions.

That he can blandly describe the murder of 77 young people in a manner that implies at least tacit support for the idea gives me the creeps.

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
8 years ago

Christians try to deny Hitler was one of them also. And it’s really pathetic when they claim he was an Atheist.

Molly moon
Molly moon
8 years ago
Reply to  Ruby Hypatia

Oh look ruby’s still here for some reason

Cliff Pervocracy
Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Oh man, Ruby’s been beating the prison rape drum so hard for so long, I almost forgot she’s also a fucking condescending “lol magic sky man, all religion is Evangelical Christanity, all religious people are dumb primitives” Internet Atheist.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Oh look ruby’s still here for some reason”

And she’s going for the Godwin when, really, just calling it a No True Scotsman works much better.

On topic, I know I said this on another thread, but a threat (to self or others) with a plan and timing? That’s going to be seriously looked at as an actual “shit you’re going to hurt someone” threat. (And most people don’t “blow hot air” about violence they don’t remotely support…)

themisanthropicmuse
themisanthropicmuse
8 years ago

I can’t believe that he actually claims that people who intend to kill others NEVER announce it beforehand, because we all know that people who plot out murders are always completely mentally stable and capable of rationally thinking about all possible outcomes and consequences if they get caught. What a tool.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

For a few days JtO had seized the title, but with this post WTF has wrestled it back. Price is now once again THE BIGGEST SHIT STAIN ON THE INTERNET! All hail Turd Price!

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

@Myoo

David looks a lot like an ex boyfriend of mine. I love guys with glasses 🙂

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Oh man, Ruby’s been beating the prison rape drum so hard for so long, I almost forgot she’s also a fucking condescending “lol magic sky man, all religion is Evangelical Christanity, all religious people are dumb primitives” Internet Atheist.

…You realize that one’s actually a thing, right? Check out, f’rex, the Pope’s speech from his visit to the UK.

I mean, it’s unrelated, but seriously now.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

@carswell

I agree. Price is in rapid disintegration mode.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

*nonchalantly cleans glasses*

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
8 years ago

I do not believe all religion is evangelical Christianity, nor do I believe religious people are dumb and primitive. I do believe those who make assumptions about what I believe are making asses of themselves.

Anathema
Anathema
8 years ago

@ Ruby Hypatia:

In all fairness, Hitler did say somewhat contradictory things with regards to his religious beliefs. So I can at least see how someone might reasonably argue that Hitler wasn’t a Christian. I wouldn’t agree with that argument, but that doesn’t mean I think that the argument is entirely unreasonable either.

Of course, I don’t particularly care either way. So what if Hitler was a Christian? It doesn’t really matter.

Why do you feel the need to bring this up? This thread isn’t about silly arguments some Christians have made. It’s not really relevant to the issue at hand.

Can you take your whining about Christians elsewhere? Or maybe just stop entirely? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the atheist community/movement/whatever has had to do a lot of house cleaning recently regarding problematic attitudes towards gender. Anyone who believes that rape is justified in certain situations is not helping. You’re part of the problem here.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

This kind of language out of the Mangina League; the SPLC’s attention; the spate of troll and provocateur attacks and hacking on mens’ blogs; this crap going on in Scandanavia—there’s definately a pole-shift among our enemies and it stinks of orchestration.

Clearly it is a conspiracy among these groups to notice that MRAs are promoting terrorism.
Wait. What? Can it be that they have discovered that there is such a thing as too much attention?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

“who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year”

Huh. I was not aware that the Knights Templar were an organization formed with the intention of fighting Marxism. The more you know, etc. Having grown up in the Middle East, I’m also rather confused as to how Marxism and Islam are interchangeable. Saudi didn’t seem like a Marxist country…

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
8 years ago

Having grown up in the Middle East, I’m also rather confused as to how Marxism and Islam are interchangeable. Saudi didn’t seem like a Marxist country…

That’s because your Feminist Goggles (TM) are blinding you to the TRUTH!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Then again, Saudi does have nationalised healthcare, which I guess someone like Price probably thinks of as Marxism.

katz
8 years ago

Fun fact: one leading figure of Christianity was actually a Jew.

Steele
Steele
8 years ago

…You realize that one’s actually a thing, right? Check out, f’rex, the Pope’s speech from his visit to the UK.

I mean, it’s unrelated, but seriously now.

Um, excuse me?

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Um, excuse me?

The Pope basically said “Atheism is responsible for hitler”. As in, Hitler’s thinking was the direct result of atheism and the natural end result.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

I got stiffed on some freelancing work last year. Clearly part of the Futrelle conspiracy.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

My air conditioner took a short break a couple of weeks ago. Clearly part of the Futrelle conspiracy.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

NWO:

And what makes a citizen a suspected terrorist? Speaking out against the govenrment. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food. Owning more than 1 gun.

As I usually ask when you attempt to claim something is prohibited or required by law, are these actual clauses in an actual statute or just something you feel to be true?

(The first seems like a strained interpretation of something that might actually be in there, and to be fair, courts have interpreted things strainedly in the past. The others, while not actually impossible, are politically difficult at best and sound suspiciously like far-right/militia rumors of Obama’s secret agenda, not that NWO ever gets information from sources that aren’t NWO).

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
8 years ago

And what makes a citizen a suspected terrorist? Speaking out against the govenrment. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food. Owning more than 1 gun.

Hey, how about uttering threats against abortion doctors, and then actually killing a bunch of them, and verbally harassing everyone who goes into or out of an abortion clinic, and fire-bombing abortion clinics? Those are actual examples of terrorist activities that the government is actively ignoring. You paranoid freak.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Question – how does the government know what’s in your pantry? I’m fairly certain that I have more than 7 days worth of everything except fresh produce (which wouldn’t keep that long) in my kitchen right now. Is Big Daddy going to come and arrest me for buying rice in bulk?

speedlines
speedlines
8 years ago

Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food.

Well damn, the government must have its hands full, what with keeping track of all those Mormon terrorists.

Sharculese
8 years ago

ruby is dumb and haughty? who would have guessed?

Sharculese
8 years ago

I do believe those who make assumptions about what I believe are making asses of themselves.

considering the tantrums about ‘strawmanning’ you throw when people have the temerity to repeat what you said and say ‘i disagree,’ i do not believe that you have the capacity to evaluate such things

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

…Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year.

Well, that`s one way of saying, “He massacred dozens of innocent children”. Sure.

xardoz
8 years ago

I knew W. F. Prince was an unhinged creep, but holy hell… killing children is a “knight templar crusade?”

This is the unmasked face of the Men’s rights movement, everybody.

The MRM is really starting to rustle my jimmies. It makes me sad that I used to be one of them.

Good job escaping the MRM kool-aid cult! I only wish there were more of you, especially with the not-so-subtle violent rhetoric everywhere.

xardoz
8 years ago

*W. “T” F. Price, excuse me.

rjjspeshImmir
8 years ago

Nice one

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Cliff:

Oh man, Ruby’s been beating the prison rape drum so hard for so long, I almost forgot she’s also a fucking condescending “lol magic sky man, all religion is Evangelical Christanity, all religious people are dumb primitives” Internet Atheist.

She’s also an Internet Libertarian, in case you’ve forgotten her “poor people deserve to die” PSA.

Also, while Hitler seemed to believe in (parts of) Christianity, and used a lot of Christian elements in his rhetoric, the Nazis also worked to severely limit the institutional power of the christian churches, which they saw as rivals, and many Nazis were very anti-clerical. (Thus, for instance, the number of Catholics who joined the Nazi Party after about the mid-20s is lower than their representation in the German population.)

The Nazis were neither entirely pro-Christian or entirely anti-Christian, and it gets very complicated depending on what period you’re looking at, which Nazi you’re talking about, and how you define “Christian.”

Just calling them “Christian” is as much of a half-truth as calling them “atheist”—and often used just as polemically, in my experience.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

Could the MRAs please explain why some feminist from back in the 70’s who said some fairly vague stuff about men needing to be removed from the population is SUCH A CLEAR AND PRESENT THREAT according to them, if “free speech” and “talking about violence” is actually an indication that there is NO THREAT MOVE ALONG?

Or is this just another example of their bullshit doubletalk where it’s totally ok for men in established places of power and privilege to say whatever they want without worrying about any sort of actual Real Consequences, while also shouting “not fair” and acting like it’s the end of the world if someone without that power and privilege says something similar?

It’s always a “Real Threat” if it topples your uncontested ability to do whatever the fuck you want, but it doesn’t make it any less of a real threat if you’re engaging in direct threats of bodily harm and murder to other people.

Play by your own rules, jerks.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

PS: This does not make feminists or non-privileged persons totes ok to go around threatening murder and genocide, by the way. It’s just annoying as fuck to see the MRAs wringing their hands and going on about how they’re a peace movement when so many of them are overtly hateful and advocate/act out violence, and then they turn around and say that a couple of people who did or said problematic things in the name of feminism TOTALLY INVALIDATE ALL OF THE OTHER STUFF THAT MADE SHIT BETTER.

*headdesk*

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

Exactly what shit will be made better if MRAs get their way? All I can see is removal of rights of women and children and men being given supreme rule just for having been born with a penis. Sounds like backsliding to the “good old days” where things weren’t good for pretty much everyone but a select few.