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The brief history of the brief career of the (unofficial) goodwill ambassador from planet Good Men Project

On a fairly regular basis, Man Boobz is visited by commenters of an MRAish disposition. There are many varieties. Some start off by trying to post rape threats and other such unpleasantness, and their comments never see the light of day. Some leave a few irritated comments and head off, never to be seen again. Some manage to stick around long enough to become Man Boobz institutions.

One interesting variety: the ones who come here, they claim, to discuss the issues with us in good faith. In most cases it becomes quickly evident that they are not interested in real discussion at all, as they ignore what most of the commenters here say to them to instead argue with the straw feminists who live in their heads.

Soon many of these alleged good-faith arguers drop the pretense entirely and lash out with nasty personal attacks. At this point they go on moderation, or find themselves banned entirely.

The latest such meltdown was a fairly quick one. For those who don’t regularly read the comments, here’s a brief history of John Anderson’s brief career (so far) as an unofficial goodwill ambassador to Man Boobz from planet Good Men Project.

An anti-feminist dude who generally hangs out at the Good Men Project, Mr. Anderson arrived at Man Boobz Prime on July 2nd, bright-eyed and bushy tailed, eager to learn from and about the feminist commenters here, and to convince some of us to join him and the other commenters at the GMP in healthy and fruitful dialogue.

In one of his first comments here, he explained the reason for his coming here:

I promised some feminists, who I really admire, at The Good Men Project that I would initially engage feminists without assuming that they are misandrist, a very difficult task for me at least. I think that I’ve mostly lived up to that promise so far as I’ve asked for clarifications and I’ve used qualifiers like seems. I can understand if this comment was written in frustration, but understand that I and any new visitor to the site won’t understand the back story if there is one and the comment just comes off as being dismissive of male victimization.

In a further comment he explained that he was trying to do his part to save the Men’s Rights movement from the angry ideologues:

I was on a voice for men a while back. They had nothing but contempt for the GMPers. I’m certain that I’ll cross paths with them. It is my heartfelt intent to reclaim my movement from people who would disgrace it.

Five minutes later, alas, we learned that he had determined we were all a bunch of misandrists after all.

I only promised not to assume that feminists were misandrists. Once proven, it is no longer an assumption.

Oh, wait, not all of us. But we are a bunch of meanies:

I don’t think all the commentators hate men or are necessarily closed minded to other view points. I actually stepped away from a safe space to engage people who don’t see things the way I do. The feeling that I get is that there is great hostility to anyone who may consider men to be victims under any circumstance….

I’ve quoted DOJ and CDC statistics and included page numbers or links on an article that says that we shouldn’t be angry over truthful statistics. I’ve been told that the statistics have been spun. Maybe I should have refrained from that SHOCKED bit. I probably should have considered the feelings of the people on this site. I’d consider apologizing, but too many people here seem mean.

As far as I can tell, he determined that I was a misandrist because I downplayed the fact that more men are murdered than women by writing the following sentence in the OP:

While four times as many men are murdered than women, only 5% of murdered men are killed by “intimates.”

I remain a bit baffled as to how a sentence that starts by noting that four times as many men are murdered than women is downplaying the fact that, well, four times as many men are murdered than women. You can go read the whole discussion yourself and see if you can figure it out.

The meltdown followed not long afterwards. In one comment, Mr. Anderson suggested, as far as I can figure it, that [TW: RAPE APOLOGETICS] women regularly decide whether or not to charge a man with rape after they determine how good their rapist is in bed:

When is a woman responsible for her own rape because it wasn’t worth fighting over? Maybe she liked it and waited to see how good he was before deciding on whether to fight and that whole women don’t report rape thing can’t be a big deal if she didn’t think it was important enough to report. Feminists say you should never blame the victim. What feminists mean is that you should never blame the victim unless the victim is a man.

But he still hoped to lure some of us over to the Good Man Project for more scintillating discussion about how feminists are evil and mean and how dudes like him think women think  about rape. Oh, and that movie about the stripper dudes.

Come by and visit. Right now there are discussions focusing around the objectification of men because of the Magic Mike movie. There are also multiple discussions around men and feminism. Come and visit.

Then, for some reason, he decided to bring up his cock:

Kyrie says,

“Fuck. You.”

No thanks. Not sure if triple bagging it would help. I’m referring to both my cock and your face. I have to have some fun. 🙂

At this point, I put Mr. Anderson on permanent moderation.

Or  tried to anyway. Due to a little glitch, it didn’t take, so Mr. Anderson was able to post freely for a while. Among other things, he tried to explain away that previous comment with this:

David says,

“And that line about cocks and faces wins Mr. Anderson the prize of permanent moderation. Congrats!”

You forgot bags. It’s bags, cocks, and faces. You have to admit, that statement was a classic.

Not so much.

Then he whined about being moderated:

Dude, I can’t even keep up with the comments directed at me. If I have to deal with moderation, the situation would be unworkable. It should earn me props on a voice for men when I decide to return at least until I start commenting on their discussions. It only took two or was it three days to get semi-banned from the site. Gotta be a record.

The only record set was for how quickly Mr. Anderson devolved from an earnest man of alleged good faith to a cock-talking troll.

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cloudiah
8 years ago

PASTA, I don’t doubt that you have a conscious mind. I just don’t think you’re very smart. Hope that clears things up for you!

Sharculese
8 years ago

No, I am not a Chinese room. There is an actual conscious mind at this end of the wire, if that’s what you were trying to cast doubt on.

holy shit, this is like the apotheosis of internet puffery

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

@cloudiah:

I just don’t think you’re very smart.

I think this statement can be safely generalized.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@CaptanBathrobe: it’s a well known fact that paragraph breaks are FEMYNYST OPPRESSYION!

FIGHT THE PARAGRAPH!

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Skylar: You PROMISED you’d only post once.

YOU LIED!!!!

Has there ever in the history of teh internets been a case of somebody saying “I’m just posting once to disgree with you all and I don’t care what you say which is why I’m posting and I won’t be coming back to see what you say because I know you all disagree with me which I don’t care about, going now, bye!” and sticking to it?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@ ithiliana

No.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@Ithiliana:

Has there ever in the history of teh internets been a case of somebody saying “I’m just posting once to disgree with you all and I don’t care what you say which is why I’m posting and I won’t be coming back to see what you say because I know you all disagree with me which I don’t care about, going now, bye!” and sticking to it?

I did it once, but people misunderstood me and weren’t convinced, so I had to go back and clarify.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@BASTA!:

I think this statement can be safely generalized.

Generalized? Like… “We just don’t think you’re very smart?” I’m sure it could.

Also, I find it amusing that the one philosophical dialog you happen to reference is one based on a logical fallacy.

Skylar Rouse
Skylar Rouse
8 years ago

You guys are funny. It really seems like you read what I wrote and then went, “ignorant group mentality, I’ll show this guy what Ignorant group mentality is. Quick comment of sentence structure, fuck this guy for not using paragraphs. Oh yeah let’s call him a pussy. Man this guy said he doesn’t respect us, Ha really mean he hates women, because all women oppress him through way of paragraphs. Oh man yeah they’ll be funny to say.” Seriously I irony must just go way above your head. It makes me happy though because anyone with a rational mind isn’t going to read this and agree with how you guys act. It’s true your such a small portion of the population, I wonder how you’re treated in your day to day lives to have to act like this. Yeah though internets and all that jazz, have fun “mocking” anyone that doesn’t want to sit around tell you guys how right you are and how funny and cool and blah blah blah. I’m glad none of you hold any power in my life and I hope you don’t damage your children too much if you have them. Ah man I forgot the indent again, darn.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

Generalized? Like… “We just don’t think you’re very smart?” I’m sure it could.

Moreover, the object clause in that self-descriptive statement of (now plural) yours is in fact completely redundant, and can be generalized away. The simple observation that you just don’t think remains true independently of any possible choice of a ponderable.

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
8 years ago

Who called you a pussy, Skylar?

Also repeatedly stating that we hold no power in your life while continuing to post here kind of undermines your argument. If we really have no power, then why not just walk away?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Skylar, where did anyone call you a pussy? It’s bad enough you’re having a hissyfit about nothing, don’t lie on top of it.

Nice attempt at concern trolling for the children. WON’T SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Won’t someone think of the English language? It really doesn’t deserve this kind of abuse.

” Seriously I irony must just go way above your head.”

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Pasta is not a Chinese room? Where the fuck did THAT come from?

As for Skylar, I can just imagine him as that guy who follows you around, talking about how unreasonable you’re being, when you get into a big argument with him.

My kiddo is perfectly fine Skylar. Happy, healthy, caring and respectful,creative and inquisitive. What she’s not…willing to put up with crap regardless of who is dishing it.

Sharculese
8 years ago

skylar, none of that happened, but im sorry you have to invent reasons to pretend to be a victim on the internet. that sounds super sad… 🙁

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

Who called you a pussy, Skylar?

Seems he may have the same mystical read-between-the-lines skillz as Mr. Anderson.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
8 years ago

I especially like the part where Skylar says we don’t question anything, when our whole interaction with what’s-his-face was us questioning his statistics and statements, and him being unable to back any of them up, and just repeating the same thing over and over and over and over and over…

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Hey PASTA! You may have been trying to say something…but it got lost in that gobblygook you’re trying to pass off as written English.

Please revise that last post.

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
8 years ago

It’s funny how people who say “none of you think for yourselves!” really mean “none of you think like me!”

Sharculese
8 years ago

It makes me happy though because anyone with a rational mind isn’t going to read this and agree with how you guys act

i love the continuing mra obsession with ‘rationality’

‘if you were RATIONAL, you would totally see that all women are GROSS EVIL BITCHES, who i HATE. not that i care, tho.’

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
8 years ago

Oh, I get it: BASTA is trying to say that we don’t think! Oh snap! We just got told! I mean, as soon as we figured out what he was trying to say, that is. Dude, pretentiousness is not a virtue, it really isn’t.

cloudiah
8 years ago

You guys, everyone on the internetz agrees with Skylab. I guess it’s time to shut down this blog.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
8 years ago

*control + f*

Yeah, there’s only been two uses of the word ‘pussy’ so far, and this is the second.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Steele:

Sharculese, nice to see you already attempting to goad me as you all did Anderson. I know that the feminists here are given license to spew all the invective they want while men’s rights commenters must tread on shards of glass.

We have at least two admitted white supremacists here. David has not banned them, although (considering my past experience and field of study) I would have. Your claim does not match the evidence.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
8 years ago

Well, at the time of writing it was.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@BASTA!:

Moreover, the object clause in that self-descriptive statement of (now plural) yours is in fact completely redundant, and can be generalized away. The simple observation that you just don’t think remains true independently of any possible choice of a ponderable.

It’d be pretty hard to write responses to you without a single thought in my head, you know. It’d also be pretty hard to interpret your nounification of “ponderable” correctly, or to try to figure out exactly why you decided to insert “(now plural)” into your sentence without the slightest clue of what it could refer to. Is the statement plural? Is the object clause plural? Am I now plural? Maybe someone with a greater quantity of thoughts than I could understand.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Wait, I thought that we were all essentially one person, since they keep referring to us as a hivemind.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@Skylar:

It’s funny to think that you people actually think that somehow you make sense or are truly mocking anything.

*twitch*

All you’re doing is standing in a circle letting someone say something dumb, offensive, or just ignorant and than turning to each to other for validation.

I… *twitch* Erk.

Seriously I irony must just go way above your head.

Now you just aren’t playing fair.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

Sad… I thought that the first quoted bit had an extra “you think” in it somewhere. I must’ve been thrown off by the formatting. Guess I wasn’t actually mocking anything.

I IRONY!

cloudiah
8 years ago

kirbywarp, I miss you so when you’re away.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Oh yeah let’s call him a pussy.

I’m not sure what’s funnier – the fact that you decided to make up an imaginary case of someone insulting you, despite blog comments being a medium in which everything anyone actually said to you is there for everyone to see, or that you could not see past your own silly ideology long enough to figure out that maybe, when inventing an imaginary insult to be thrown at you by feminists, you should come up with one that feminists are vaguely likely to use. (Hint: people who do not actually think female genitalia is icky and shameful do not generally use insults that boil down to “you’re icky and shameful like GIRL PARTS, ha ha.” Funny how that works!)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

It’s a new verb! I irony, you irony, he/she/it ironies.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
8 years ago

@CassandraSays:

Irony… Ironying… Ironology, the study of irony? It’s first grade, Cassandra!

@cloudiah:

Aww, thanks. I miss being here too… I feel like I miss out on a lot of great trolls and current events.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Skylar:

So yeah I just wanted to make sure that this is indeed a place of holding your ears shut so that you’reYOUR thinking can never possibly evolve.

Weak metaphor. No obvious relationship between “ears” and “thinking.” A better choice would be something like “holding your ears shut so you never have to hear new ideas.” Also,given the existing syntax it’s unclear what the relationship between the “place” is and the “you” who holds his/her ears shut. A better choice would be “a place where people hold their ears shut.”

It’s funny to think that you people actually think that somehow you make sense or are truly mocking anything. All you’re doing is standing in a circle letting someone say something dumb, offensive, or just ignorant and than turning to each to other for validation.

These sentences are good, except it undermines your own position when you admit that what the targets of mockery at Manboobz are doing us “say[ing] something dumb.” A better choice would have been “saying something iconoclastic” or something like that.

Some weird ” Look Look I done good”.

Good use of sentence fragments for rhetorical emphasis, but you seem to be having problems with your spacing. There should not be a space between the first quote and “Look.” Also, as counterintuitive as it may seem (really, I hate this rule), the period goes inside the closing quotation.

It saddens me that this can of ignorance is actually applauded and the only thing someone here needs to do to get validation is basically exclaim how anything that challenges feminism is evil and feminism is the be all end all of everything.

This sentence is extremely unclear. How do you applaud a “can” of anything? Once again, your metaphors are confused: did you mean to say “opens a can of ignorance”?

In the second place, the quoted speech here is, I think, a little too long. Everything after “exclaim how…” is something others are doing and thinking, not you the author, but since it’s so long and complex your reader can easily lose sight of what is going on. Instead, try “exclaim how anything that challenges feminism is evil [and how] feminism is the be all end all of everything.”

It is easy to be around a lot of people who agree with you and be ignorant,[ either use a semicolon instead of a comma or put a word like “but” after the comma] it is incredibly difficult to try to challengeschallenge closed minded people’s views.

So nothing you do here is “brave” or [comma] hell[comma] “important”[comma] but it does make me laugh. Personally [comma] I get all the validation I need simply from reading blogs like this and knowing at least I truly believe in equality and I truly want to change the world for the better.

The theme of equality comes in from left field, since you didn’t set up the desired contrast between “feminism” and “real equality” earlier in the piece. For maximum rhetorical impact, you need to set this up earlier.

So yeah[comma] it’s amazing that the human mind let’s lets you guys think this is anything but ignorance being shouted back and forth among friends.

Good use of “among” for exchanges taking place in a group of more than two people. This is the proper usage, but a lot of people forget it. Good job. 🙂 However, where is the theme of human fallibility coming from? While your introduction of the limits of all human knowledge is interesting as an idea, it’s placed into this essay very abruptly, and remains unexplored.

Oh [comma]and as for why I would post, it’s not to pout[space]( you guys actually have no bearing on my life,[either put an “and” after the comma or use a semicolon instead] I don’t take offense from people I don’t respect) or to be passive aggressive[space]( I like to think I’m pretty straight forward straightforward with my meanings,[no period here]). I’ll leave you with a quote that I hope would explain why [colon]“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

Your conclusion is way too abrupt, and you don’t source that quote. Who said it? When?

It would also be interesting if you tied that quote back to your remarks about the limits of fallible human cognition, too.

In conclusion, B- needs revision.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

“Also, as counterintuitive as it may seem (really, I hate this rule), the period goes inside the closing quotation.”

I’m pretty sure that it doesn’t in the UK. This seems to be one of those British versus American issues where I end up arguing with Word.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Also, I’m really not impressed by the Good Men Project. While the patriarchy does cause men suffering, discussing that while never doing anything to dismantle male privilege is worse than doing nothing, since it upholds structures of inequality.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Sorry, Ozy. I think you dropped the ball on this one.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

This seems to be one of those British versus American issues where I end up arguing with Word.

I thought you could specify your desired language/dialect in Word.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Possibly, but since I’m in the US I need to observe American rules.

GingerSnaps
GingerSnaps
8 years ago

I’ve used qualifiers like seems.

It seems like you guys are a bunch of man-hating violence-loving Solanas wannabes whose only goal in life is to kill ALL the men. What? I used qualifiers like seems!

Seriously, is this not ALSO the douche who quotes something, writes “are you saying that [completely absurd thing]?” and then argues with his own straw feminists?

Oh! Who lives in a pineapple under the sea? Spongebob Squarepants!

Are you saying that round things are vegetables? This is obviously Misandry, because of that one peta commercial.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@VoIP: *hearts you with English teacher lurve*

I’ve knock another half grade off for failure to paragraph (because that’s just the kind of femynyst oppressyon I rock with). One of the best ways to show the structure of one’s points is through paragraphing!

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
8 years ago

I thought you could specify your desired language/dialect in Word.

Phooey on dialects! I used to be able to spell and punctuate and grammar and stuff. Then I started using computers, and it kept telling me I was spelling “colour” wrong. And then I started hanging out on the internet and now I’m using apostrophes inappropriately, I can’t spell, and don’t know anything about grammar anymore. And now my job requires me to have my keyboard and language set to English (US) or the main program we use doesn’t understand dates, or some stupid thing.

Still, VoIP, that was masterful! I loved it.

Sharculese
8 years ago

the indignation at the no-paragragh call out is hilarious, too. ‘how DARE YOU give me advice so that i dont completely suck at communicating how much i HATE YOU.’

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

@VoIP: *hearts you with English teacher lurve*

SQUEEEEEE

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

the indignation at the no-paragragh call out is hilarious, too. ‘how DARE YOU give me advice so that i dont completely suck at communicating how much i HATE YOU.’

A lot of MRAs are like this, actually. Now that I think of it, I remember HOW MAD they get at “grammar police” or whatever. Is it because many high school teachers are women, and they remember chafing under the yoke of their (illegitimate, because female) authority? Is it because (if only in the past 20 years) the study of language is coded feminine in our culture?

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Unimaginative, at least you have help from the computer. As far as I know, there is no grammar-check thing for German. (If I’m wrong, will someone please help out?)

Sharculese
8 years ago

@voip

yeah, i can see that as a part of it. i also think a part of it is youthful arrogance, where their so hung up on the substance of the message that they havent thought about what communicating in means, and see anyone who tells them otherwise as denigrating the substance

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Skylar Rouse —

“So I see a guy trying to use statistics and studies to show that there are needs for concern a men’s rights movement and a bunch of people ignoring him…”

Any chance you read the thread and saw all that math PsychoDan and I did for him?

“These are kinds of things that make me people that some people actually think using logic is a form of abuse.”

Oh nevermind, math is abuse apparently.

Cassandra — your computer’s annoyance at day/month/year aside, most Americans don’t know enough grammar to know where the punctuation goes, I’d say do what you’re comfortable with and if no one says anything they either didn’t notice, or don’t care. (I seriously once had my boss insisting I have to note that something was “X per diem per day” *bangs head on wall*)

Fembot
Fembot
8 years ago

@Skylar

“It’s funny to think that you people actually think that somehow you make sense or are truly mocking anything. All you’re doing is standing in a circle letting someone say something dumb, offensive, or just ignorant and than turning to each to other for validation.”

Funny, I thought you were talking about The Spearhead, or A Voice for Men, there.

Your opinions strike me as so ridiculously ignorant, incorrect, and just plain baffling, that I really can’t even think of a response. You may as well be telling us that the sky is pink. You are just too fucking wrong for words.

Fembot
Fembot
8 years ago

@Skylar, Steele, et al

Please please give me a specific quote where someone on this site made an offensive comment against men (that is not specific to MRAs). And provide a link, please. I ask this over and over and over and never get a response. Until I see a link I will just assume you are a bullshitting troll and liar.