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a voice for men antifeminism grandiosity homophobia hypocrisy johntheother MGTOW misandry misogyny MRA music video worst writing in the history of the universe YouTube

Working in the quote mine, going down down

“I’ve found another incredibly dopey statement from JohnTheOther!”

So our blabby friend JohnTheOther has an especially blabby piece up on A Voice for Men at the moment. Its ostensible subject: the pure eeeevil of unnamed anti-MRAs who misrepresent the World’s Greatest 21st Century Human Rights Movement –  the Men’s Rights Movement, that is – through the eeevil practice of “quote mining.”

I didn’t read the whole thing. Mr. TheOther is not what you’d call an efficient writer. Here are a few quotes mined from the article more or less at random that I think will give you a good idea of his, um, style:

Biology, or indeed, evolutionary theory is not really the topic of this discussion, rather it is provided here as example of a rhetorical practice increasingly common among opponents of a small but growing human rights movement. …

 The developing practice in opposition to human rights, of quote-mining goes beyond pathetic, into the realm of craven, futile depravity. …

However, it seems that no matter how many times it is explained that a thing formed from (bad) ideas – an ideology, and a group of people, identifiable by sex, are two distinct things, gender ideologues continue to conflate them. …

I don’t know if any of this makes any more sense in context, as I didn’t read the context. Let’s continue:

A year ago, I wrote an article focusing on the necessary public repudiation of violence, and the responsibility of open opposition to those who advocated or promoted a climate of acceptable violence, including those who openly advocate murder, such as a group of swedish feminists, and eugenics advocates on the squalid radical-hub. Statements from my original piece were quoted by at least one amoral zombie, and reframed to present my view as one which called for violence.

Of course, the author of those yellow pixels might not have realized that the original article, along with it’s unambiguous opposition to violence was posted on a site with substantially higher traffic than his own. The craven and stupid dishonesty of the quote-miner was apparent to all but a few, blinded by their own ideological goggles.

Oh, wait, I think those last two paragraphs were supposed to be about me. And I think they were supposed to refer to this post of mine, which took a look at a post of his that defended A Voice for Men’s “outing” of a group of Swedish feminists that the AVFM crew had decided, on the basis of a brief video promoting a theatrical production, were “murder advocates.” His post contained the following (unedited) paragraphs.

That’s right manboob, identifying a group of self-declared murder advocates to the public is more important than protecting those murder advocates from the consequences of advocating murder.

In the truth-is-fiction world of Futrelle’s mind, the men’s right advocates calling for public identification of a hate organization have been transmogrified into promoters of violence.

And what if they get killed David? What if rather than be arrested – as promoters of hate, and public advocates of murder, what if these depraved and murderous female supremacists come to harm at the hands of a citizen. If that happens, it will mean that a society’s system of law, designed to prevent hate organizations, and to allow redress of grievance through non violent due process is gone, wiped out by your ideology of violence and hate. That’s what you’re defending, David.

In my post, I quoted the final paragraph; here I have included the two preceding grafs to give it a bit more, what’s that word, context.

Of course, a couple of paragraphs by themselves are still kind of “out of context” I guess. Since I am pretty sure no one would like it if I simply pasted in the entire post from JtO here, I will instead direct you to his original post, here. You may make of it what you wish. I rather doubt that you will see it as a clearheaded treatise of nonviolence. Especially with that line: “And what if they get killed David?” (Which you can read in context above, or, again, in his original post. Let me link to it a sixth time here, just to make sure you know how to find his original words in context. Oops, that’s seven times now)

Interesting that a master debater of Mr. TheOther’s caliber somehow forgot to provide even one link to the controversy he was referring to, so people might be able to see for themselves what had happened, and judge his claims accordingly. I wonder why that might be?

I’ll skip the next bit in Mr. TheOther’s latest post, in which Mr.TheOther suggests that an opponent of his might have taken a quote of his out of context in a way that  makes him look racist and homophobic. But since he offers no links to the actual discussion, there’s no way of judging whether this particular quote-mining claim is true. (Perhaps this discussion on the Men’s Rights subreddit could shed some light on it?)

In any case, if we put this particular discussion in a broader, er, context, there is certainly ample evidence of homophobia amongst the A Voice for Men crowd, as I have pointed out here and here. (Protip: If you want to convince people you are not homophobic, you should probably not feature a video mocking “lesbo-bos” in the sidebar of the site you help to run.)

Anyway, this next bit of his definitely has something or other to do with me:

Bottom feeding quote miners indulging in snarky feats of futrelian deceit likely do win rhetorical brownie points, at least when seen through their own ideological goggles. But they are cementing their own a public persona which will wear about as comfortably as klan robes do at a NAACP meeting. The altered landscape this movement is building is not someday, it is now, and it is coming faster all the time.

Uh, dude, my last name has two L’s in it. It should be “Futrellian deceit.” If you’re going to turn my name into a slur, at least spell it correctly.

For individuals in opposition to human rights of men and boys now, whether through lying, repetition of old, false dogmas, or the craven tactic of mis-represented and mis-attributed meaning, the comfort of a formerly one-sided monologue is over. The public squirming we see in attempts to render MRA voices silent or apologetic will escalate before it abates. But that’s okay.

Hey, Mr. TheOther. If you really want to prove my “futrelian” or even my “Futrellian” deceit, how about this: provide specific examples of me taking something you or some other MRA has written out of context in a way that distorts its meaning.

For your convenience, you can find all the Man Boobz posts that reference you here and here.

And for anyone who now has the song “Working In the Coal Mine” stuck in their head, here’s the Lee Dorsey original:

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Fembot
Fembot
8 years ago

It’s not.

You just have to do it more often.

Ha ha ha! I see what you did there. But the difficulty of laundry depends on what kinds of clothes you wear. Jeans and T shirts are way easier than business shirts that need ironing all the time. I hate ironing, and I suck at it. So my husband does his own. And he is pretty good at it.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Jeans and T shirts are way easier than business shirts that need ironing all the time.

Yup. And both are easier than, say, a little girl’s white lace First Communion dress that her baby brother pooped on. (Yes, this is a real thing that a family I used to babysit for had to deal with. I think between their mom and I, we hand-washed, bleached, stain-treated, etc. that dress about 20 times, all to the accompaniment of the daughter’s wails because that was her PRINCESS DRESS and she didn’t want to be a POOPY PRINCESS!)

PsychoDan
PsychoDan
8 years ago

Really, the “quote mining”/”out of context” excuse requires that the context be specifically an indication that the person doesn’t believe it. Like the Dworkin quote where the context is “my opponents would accuse me of saying X, but that’s not what I believe.”

Hey, you mean like when MRAs constantly attribute quotes of characters from novels to their feminist authors to prove that feminists hate men? But that’s not quote mining, it’s, um…

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

And both are easier than, say, a little girl’s white lace First Communion dress that her baby brother pooped on. (Yes, this is a real thing that a family I used to babysit for had to deal with. I think between their mom and I, we hand-washed, bleached, stain-treated, etc. that dress about 20 times, all to the accompaniment of the daughter’s wails because that was her PRINCESS DRESS and she didn’t want to be a POOPY PRINCESS!)

Lol. My family’s baptismal gown has a little brown speck on it from where my father’s cousin shat on it. My father is almost 70, and that cousin may be long dead by now…

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Anyway, I think it’s indefinably sad how our most rage-filled, bitter MRA seems to really want “feminine” activities…even as he rails against feminism trying to “turn men into women” or whatever. What you repress is what you seek, broheim. And I’m sorry that you suffer.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

I actually do spend about as long on laundry for three people as I did on laundry for Hershele living alone, but I have to use the bigger, more expensive machines. So the time is the same, but it costs more.

Bee
Bee
8 years ago

I definitely spend nearly twice as long when I’m washing my boyfriend’s and my laundry as opposed to just my own. It’s a little less than twice as long, because I’d be washing sheets regardless. If I had to go to a laundromat instead of doing it at home, as Hershele noted, perhaps it would cost more while taking proportionally less time (although it would of course take more time than laundering at home).

Even with a bigger washer, however, it wouldn’t take me “about as long” to do laundry for two people as it does for one, because it would still take me twice as long to fold twice as many items. I would love to hear hints for folding twice as many clothes in half the time, however!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Maybe Slavey is one of those people who doesn’t understand that there’s a limit to how much that you can put in the machines at once, so he’s just imagining cramming everything in even if it doesn’t actually get clean that way. I’m betting that the concept of separate cycles for colds, whites, delicates etc has not occurred to him.

Or, you know, he knows very well that he’s talking nonsense but nothing is as important as attempting to get women to shut up.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

The delicate cycle, and cold water washing, are MISANDRY! (Ok, I admit to being lazy enough I go for just cold and delicate cycle, but my wardrobe steers more towards black than white…does that make me racist against white shirts? XD )

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The fact that delicates exist is misandry, as is laundry in general. If society was in its natural state women would just automtically do everyone’s laundry without men ever having to think about it.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“…women would just automtically do everyone’s laundry without men ever having to think about it.”

But that’s literally impossible…either he needs to put his laundry in the bin, be asked for it, or not complain when his dirty clothing isn’t sitting where he left it. Somehow I can’t see MRAs being okay with any of those. Putting it in the bin being work, being asked for it being nagging, and her just collecting his clothing would probably be like, theft or something…or some combination of them depending his mood…and the MRM feels a lot like gaslighters anonymous with no attempt to reform, but instead just going “yeah! we rock!”

I mean, my mother still does my 23 year old brother’s laundry, but only if he puts it in the bin, and she has to remind him of that sometimes (I’ve mentioned he’s basically Chris Griffan incarnate right? One of these days he’s going to have to learn how to clean things)

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

And wait, doesn’t that contradict the complaints that women live longer? How would widowers do laundry if they never had before? (And priests get the nuns to do it I guess?)

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

Bee:

I would love to hear hints for folding twice as many clothes in half the time, however!

I use the “shove everything in the drawer” technique. The joys of telecommuting!

Actually, the rule here is that everyone is reponsible for retrieving and putting away his or her own clothes. Slavey wouldn’t like that.

Molly moon
Molly moon
8 years ago

Bee-

Do you have a lot of tshirts?
2 second tshirt fold

You can find videos on YouTube that are easier to follow, but I didn’t try to post a link b/c I’m on my phone and clicking on videos just opens them in the YouTube app, I’m pretty sure. Too lazy to try to figure it out. 😛