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“Sometimes I wonder if they’d have us living in a wasteland fighting over scraps while occasionally taking one of us hostage for breeding.”

The feminist utopia. (Franz von Stuck, “The Battle over Woman,” 1905)

So over on the Men’s Rights subreddit the resident dudes (and small but statistically significant population of dudettes) were getting all worked up at the notion of men standing up for women, and getting into fisticuffs over them, and all that sort of thing.

And then SuicideBanana said this:

You know that’s the feminist ideal. You see it blatantly in radfemhub, but I’ve seen more moderate feminists swoon over the idea. Sometimes I wonder if they’d have us living in some wasteland fighting on another over the scraps to survive while occasionally taking one of us, the strongest, hostage for breeding. …

That’s why when some drunk asshole or something comes over to me and tries to start a fight while there are other people around I try to avoid it. I do so because I know somewhere there could be a feminist watching who would be rubbing her hands together over it and getting wet panties of seeing two men duking it out blow for blow while daydreaming about her utopia.

Upvoted!

Oh, Men’s Rights subreddit, don’t ever change.

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Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

Of course. Everyone knows that if two guys get in a brawl, that all women in the vicinity will sit around laughing and doing that thumbs up/down thing like from the movie Gladiator.
/sarcasm

Okay, so they think that if two guys fight over a woman, it’s the woman’s fault. By that logic, if two guys fight over a TV, is it the TV’s fault? How dare the TV have such a clear picture and provoke people into fighting!

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
9 years ago

@Kendra

They’ll probably blame the TV for their ban from the electronics department too, and the fact they had to pay for damaged merchandise, and their court date…

HeatherN
9 years ago

@Kendra:

And when two guys get into a fight over sports teams, it’s the sports teams’ faults, of course. (I’m looking at you Yankees and Red Sox). lol

Ruby Hypatia
Ruby Hypatia
9 years ago

I’m sure most women probably think it’s immature for men to get into fist fights.

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

Is it just me, or does the woman in the picture look supremely bored by the whole fight?

I don’t know, something about the whole concept behind the picture makes me think that, whatever the outcome, what happens to the woman is going to be pretty much the same. Why should she have a stake in a fight that makes no difference to her?

NOT SAYING ALL MEN ARE BRUTES WHO HANDLE WOMEN ROUGHLY, NWOSLAVE, SO JUST HOP IT.

Fembot
Fembot
9 years ago

My post wouldn’t go through. Have I been banned?

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

I’m sure most women probably think it’s immature for men to get into fist fights.

Some women do think prison rape is hilarious, though. Know any women like that, Ruby?

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

Oh Criminy! Did you ever see two or more d00dz doing the dominance dance over a fire?
Six inches of snow on the ground and we had to open the doors because the heat was unbearable.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Wait Ruby, what if your boyfriend gets in a bar fight with someone BAD. Is it funny, hot, immature? All of the above?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

“My post wouldn’t go through. Have I been banned?”

The mod queue eats posts with “lots of links” — I have yet to figure out what exactly counts as lots though. You probably just got flagged by the auto-spam filter, it isn’t very bright.

“Did you ever see two or more d00dz doing the dominance dance over a fire?”

Oh gods, I really hope my former roommate never starts that, there’s enough motor oil in his standard bonfire (to which I am no longer invited if I keep complaining about burning oil and the environment…)

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Motor oil? Cheater.

firinm1lzr
firinm1lzr
9 years ago

That’s pretty much exactly what I DON’T think about whenever I’m someplace where it looks like a barfight might break out (which hasn’t happened more than a handful of times in my life, so I’m wondering just how often people really try to pick fights with this guy).

I don’t think the other guys are the ones picking fights, to be honest.

VoIP
VoIP
9 years ago

Hey guys, that was VoIP. Can you change the name?

Magpie
9 years ago

I did see a woman encourage two drunk men to keep fighting once. Don’t know if she started it, they were already going when we got there. Every time they stopped, she’d go and talk quietly in the ear of one, then the other, and back to the first one till they went back out in the carpark where all their “friends” stood around and cheered them on. They blokes were falling-down drunk and didn’t really want to fight.
I can almost guarantee that woman wasn’t a feminist, though.

Nanasha
Nanasha
9 years ago

I guess I never got the memo where women were bestowed with mind-control powers that automatically made men into drooling slaves with no free will.

Also, what is up with the idea that all people are interchangeable if they just share a certain amount of similar appearance factors? It seems to stem from the interchangeable parts/capitalism/consumerism that first world countries seem to follow like a god- the idea that you’re replaceable at your job, that if your spouse thinks you’re getting a bit too old and gray, they can just replace you with a “younger model” with no ill effects or anything, and the idea that at some point, you’ll just lose value as a human being and everyone will wish they could kill you were it not for human rights that make involuntary euthanasia illegal.

I think it’s a sad state of affairs when people with privilege have to shout loudly “I’m not replaceable! I am really a special snowflake!” and then with the same breath they also say, “but YOU, you are replaceable, just in case you were getting it into your head that *I* am replaceable! NO! It is actually completely opposite!”

A world where some people are disposable and replaceable is a world where EVERYONE is disposable and replaceable.

I don’t know if I really want to live in that kind of world with no way to change it, to be honest.

Raoul
9 years ago

I don’t think radfems want men fighting over scraps in some post-apocalyptic thunderdome-cum-caveworld. But I do think a few MRAs, or at least their buds on the “alt-rightist” front, would welcome that outcome. Go read Jack Donovan sometime.

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
9 years ago

thunderdome-cum-caveworld

I read that as thunderdome-cat-catworld and I like that picture much better.

Raoul
9 years ago

Cats make anything better. But hey! Why
aren’t you reminding everyone I’m just a troll?

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

Two cats enter, one cat leaves!

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

Oh hai troll. Happy?

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
9 years ago

Can’t we all just get beyond Thunderdome?

SWGM
9 years ago

…so, wait, I’m a *bad* feminist if I like the idea of watching two oiled-up, bikini brief-clad, grunting hunks wrestling and then having sex with the winner (and probably the loser, too)? Because…if that’s bad, I’m not sure I wanna be good.

Shiraz
Shiraz
9 years ago

Actually, I’d rather see “Dogs and cats, living together. Mass hysteria!” Than some dystopic version of Fight Club.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

“Actually, I’d rather see “Dogs and cats, living together. Mass hysteria!””

Also staring the human Chris Griffan, a hallucinating abusive drunk, and a frazzled mother! Now playing at my parents house 24/7! (The pets are hilarious though, the dog’s tags had to be filed down a bit because he kept jumping for the reflection on the ceiling…to which the cat say “wtf is his problem? I’ll be over there“)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“Sometimes I wonder if they’d have us living in some wasteland fighting on another over the scraps to survive while occasionally taking one of us, the strongest, hostage for breeding”

In the never-going-to-happen scenario described, why wouldn’t the women pick the most attractive men, rather than the strongest ones? Are they back to pretending that women have sex for mysterious reasons that have nothing to do with physical attraction again?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

“why wouldn’t the women pick the most attractive men, rather than the strongest ones?”

Protection against saber tooth tigers of course! Or maybe lions…oh wait, those find men just as tasty as women…idk (it’s the mammoths, something about hunting mammoths, or maybe updated to elephants…)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

But if the women needed protection they’d want men around all the time. See, MRAs, you need to think your weird negative utopias through before sharing them with the public.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

In the never-going-to-happen scenario described, why wouldn’t the women pick the most attractive men, rather than the strongest ones? Are they back to pretending that women have sex for mysterious reasons that have nothing to do with physical attraction again?

Don’t we just make men fight for yuks, or possibly because we’re evil, inscrutable, and deeply stupid/devious? And then we have sex with the winner of the fight because whatever. It’s part of our evil plan to make men fight more. I guess what I’m saying is that we’re all on our periods and we don’t really know what we’re doing, but we’re MAD.

I think I liked it better when we were making men become feminist-white-knight-manginas with our sexy sexy vaginas.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ SWGM

This fantasy needs more “men look into each other’s eyes mid-wrestle, start passionately making out, viewer gets to join in later”.

Fembot
Fembot
9 years ago

“This fantasy needs more “men look into each other’s eyes mid-wrestle, start passionately making out, viewer gets to join in later”

I agree, though I just want to watch 😀

Kakanian
Kakanian
9 years ago

Apparently Franz von Stuck made a second version of “Der Kampf ums Weib” too.

One that features the dudes hugging

http://www.canvaz.com/de_gallery/13962.htm

The woman, of course, is not pleased about that.

Sorka
Sorka
9 years ago

I love how MRAs habitually cough up all sorts of sexist fantasies and then try to blame them on “feminism”. So somehow they are BOTH saying that feminists are to blame for the patriarchy AND that we live in a world ruled by women.

I also love how they seem to think that feminism means women have lives like in Sex and the City (it would never occur to them that most feminists would find SATC… well… sexist).

Major Kong
Major Kong
9 years ago

while occasionally taking one of us hostage for breeding

Um, where do I sign up?

Kyso K.
9 years ago

why wouldn’t the women pick the most attractive men, rather than the strongest ones?

Aren’t those one and the same? Because I don’t have it in me to be shallow two different ways.

while occasionally taking one of us hostage for breeding

Um, where do I sign up?

I’m beginning to think there will be no forced mating at all.

garvan
garvan
9 years ago

Pretty sure one of the first historically relevant stories depicting this mindset isn’t actually Star Trek…

It’s Helen of Troy.

Vitamin D
Vitamin D
9 years ago

A lot of dudes try to fight this guy? Shocking. I really hope he says ‘Wait, if you hit me the feminists win!’

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

It makes no sense anyway. Everyone knows the feminist super secret evil plan is to make all men effeminate so that they will submissive and stay at home with our kids (not theirs necessarily, though) while we go have have fun. This is why we don’t want men to be strong, smart, courageous and fast.

(I know, our plan contains a lot of non sequitur. It’s a work in progress)

jennydevildoll
9 years ago

“That’s why when some drunk asshole or something comes over to me and tries to start a fight while there are other people around I try to avoid it. I do so because I know somewhere there could be a feminist watching who would be rubbing her hands together over it and getting wet panties of seeing two men duking it out blow for blow while daydreaming about her utopia.”

Riiiiight, of course, THAAAAATTTT’S why you’re scared to stand up for yourself against a surly drunk, cuz you might make a scheming feminist horny. I understand.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Here it is in color.

http://www.canvaz.com/de_gallery/14004.htm

Stuck has an interesting aesthetic.

pecunium
pecunium
9 years ago

Argenti: (considering the number of men who don’t want kids, this should really be seen as a good thing even by the MRM)

No. Because the MRM also wants “Paper abortions”, where they can just walk away, no strings attached if they offer to cover the cost (sometimes only “their share”) and the woman refuses.

Blue Jean
Blue Jean
9 years ago

Pretty sure one of the first historically relevant stories depicting this mindset isn’t actually Star Trek…

It’s Helen of Troy.

Who’s as fictional as Star Trek. Except in the “Big Book of Learnin'”, that is.

TK
TK
9 years ago

My god. Is this the speech this dude delivers when someone steps up to him? What a mouthful. Just say you’re a new dad, or have a weak immune system or something.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

Pecunium — re: “paper abortions” — I know, and it’s just frikken’ weird. Men more or less get to control whether a condom is used, considering none of the female birth control methods offer STD protection, you’d think they’ be happy with condoms. But apparently saying use a condom makes me a misandrist.

“Stuck has an interesting aesthetic.” — I like it, but I have a thing for renaissance chiaroscuro. (warning, the examples get NSFW about 3/4th of the way down, the text bits are all old paintings though)

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Since I’ve been reading at Manboobz, the phrase “paper abortion” (along with “male disposability”) have joined the list of “words that prove these people are misognistic asshats with whom there is no point to try to engage.”

Fembot
Fembot
9 years ago

“But apparently saying use a condom makes me a misandrist.”

According to MRAs, it is a woman’s job to make sure no STDs are spread or pregnancy occurs. Asking a man to shoulder the burden is misandry, because men can’t control their penises, and they shouldn’t have to. All vaginas should be safe. And available to MRAs, but not other men, ie manginas.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

Fembot — brilliant, just fucking brilliant. Does that only apply to those “bad girl” STDs, or yeast infections too? What about incurable STDs? Even if she got it from a rapist she should never have sex again?

And what if he acquires an STD from rape? He’s a pariah, or she has to be monogamous even if they divorce or he dies?

Reductio ad absurdum, I love it. Considering the point is probably to enforce monogamy and ban divorce, all the above would probably be cool with them, except the answer to the last one would be b, not a) he’s a pariah. A woman in his position would be, but men? Never! That’d be misandry, and making women pariahs isn’t because um…

I can’t even guess, the sarcasm broke, any guesses anyone?

VoIP
VoIP
9 years ago

Pretty sure one of the first historically relevant stories depicting this mindset isn’t actually Star Trek…

It’s Helen of Troy.

Except in the Iliad, she actually hates her lot in life and wants the whole thing to be over. In one scene, Aphrodite browbeats her into staying and looking pretty for the Trojan troops.

katz
9 years ago

I missed the forced-breeding-of-men bit of The Iliad too.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Argenti: there is a female condom. (though I must shamefully admit that I have yet to manage to put it correctly, stupid thing)

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

Kyrie — sorry, that was the point of “more or less” — I was thinking that while women can prevent pregnancy, even if an abusive partner is engaging in reproductive coercion, there’s not much women (and other vagina having people) can do about STDs if their partner isn’t willing. I was unclearly lumping all condoms together and excluding female condoms from female birth control methods, and should’ve been clearer on that. Mea culpa.

Point was that in a (cis) heterosexual relationship, she can prevent pregnancy, to a degree, even if he’s trying to force pregnancy, but can’t prevent STDs without his consent. I was thinking worse case there though, not healthy relationship sexytimes — should’ve included that I meant men have ultimate control over STD protection if they’re being abusive assholes though, yeah.