Racists – victim blamers extraordinaire — like to pretend that their racism isn’t their fault, that they’ve been driven to their racism by the bad behavior of some members of the group they’re bigoted against. Do a search for the phrase “I don’t hate blacks, but” and you will find thousands of examples of this “logic” at its crudest. “I don’t think blacks are ignorant just the NIGGERS,” one YouTube commenter writes, encapsulating the racist “logic” in a phrase.
Misogynists are fond of making similar “arguments” about women. As one commenter on the Scott Adams blog puts it:
I don’t hate women, but I have a pretty low opinion of women overall. I think they have poor priorities, they have poor analytical skills, they tend to be disorganized, they tend to be impulsive, and they think the world revolves around their feelings. I don’t think all women are like that, but it’s the impression I have of the gender in general, and I don’t like those traits.
Naturally, variations of this general argument (such as it is) abound in the “manosphere.” “Misogynists are not born they are made,” writes MRA/MGTOW elder and proud misogynist ZenPriest in an oft-cited rant titled “Hate Bounces.”
“Once, a long time ago when the world was young, I loved women with all my heart and soul,”ZenPriest (also known as Zed) writes. But then along came feminism, which ruined women so thoroughly that poor ZenPriest found himself more or less forced to become a woman-hater:
I began to see women as vicious creatures whose only agenda when it came to me, or any man, was to see how much they could get from the man – then when he had nothing left to give because they had taken it all, toss him out with yesterday’s garbage. In short – as nothing but users. …
I took to avoiding women, particularly groups of them, because I could never sit quietly and put up with the bashing and would always challenge it, which ended me up in a lot of fights and added greatly the count of times that I got called “misogynist.”
Gosh, why would anyone who “see[s] women as vicious creatures” get called a misogynist?
[A]fter 3 decades of listening to it, and hating it, and trying to keep the animosity which had been building in me over it … I caved in and began to really hate women. …
I will not allow most women in my house unless I have known her a long time and she is old enough to have escaped being infected with the plague of man hating or is escorted by someone I trust, nor will I enter theirs except on the same conditions. If I pass a woman stranded on the road, I will not stop to help her because it is as likely as not that she will be afraid of me. …
I changed from a man who loved women and thought they were just about the greatest thing in the world, to a man who can’t stand them, or anything about them.
And of course it is all the fault of women and their alleged incessant man-hatery:
Man bashing and man hating harms women, because it makes men hate them back – eventually. A puppy returns love for love, but if you beat it will eventually turn mean and will one day turn on you when you raise your fist or your stick (or the club of words) to hit it. Men are no different.
As this last bit makes clear, this “she made me do it” logic is the very same logic used by abusers to justify their abuse.
Now our old friend JohnTheOther has offered a similar blame-the-ladies explanation as to why he’s developed what he calls an “indifference to female opinion.” In his telling, the straw that broke the camel’s back was some unnamed feminist who had the temerity to use the word “neckbeard” in an internet posting.
The culture of easy, casual insult by women against average men, creeps, neckbeards, mother’s-basement-dweller and so on, has a effect which might not be recognized by women. Guys generally don’t need to be told they’re held in contempt as a group, our wider culture makes this sparklingly clear. However, individual instances of circumstantial ad-hom have the very real effect of making men not care about women’s opinions.
Yeah, that’s why these guys don’t give a shit about what women say.
Naturally, Mr. TheOther feels the need to tell us that 1) he doesn’t have a neckbeard and 2) he has a (presumably human) girlfriend.
Am I a neck-beard? No, I’m clean shaven, Im not an online gamer, I have a girlfriend, a career, I dress well et-cetera. But whenever I see some casual, throw away comment like creeper, neck-beard or other minor belittling insult used to describe average men, it cements my not giving a shit about the opinions of women.
After being criticized for his blatant misogyny by a commenter in the Men’s Rights subreddit (virtually the only MRA site online where misogyny is ever called out), Mr. TheOther altered that final bit to read “it cements my not giving a shit about the opinions offered.” He evidently thinks that changing the wording of this one sentence, and complaining about “quote-mining” will convince readers that the misogynistic argument set forth in detail in the rest of the post somehow isn’t misogyny. (And, on the Men’s Rights subreddit, that ploy seems to have worked.)
Naturally, like so many misogynists, Mr. TheOther insists he’s really not a woman-hater:
I don’t hate women, I don’t believe in any “back to the kitchen” nonsense, or any other female-targeted belittlement. What I’m talking about is my personal attitude towards women’s opinions, their utterances, their writing, their thoughts, their contribution to society. If you are a woman reading this, that means your thoughts, ideas, speech, writing and so on.
Well, that clears it up. You don’t hate women; you just don’t give a shit what women think or say or do. Obviously there’s no bigotry in that!
Utterly dismissing “female opinion” because some woman called you a neckbeard: Men’s Rights activism at its finest!
@katz, that was high school. He was always a condescending, arrogant jerk, but he gleefully accepted the tango as a justification for his already-established misogyny when he learned about it.
@Kyrie
“But who I am kidding, you still haven’t realized that a huge part of people’s sexuality is (when they can afford it) to receive and give pleasure without making a baby in the process. Yeah for condoms, for the pill and the rest of birth controls”
Condoms and pills and birth control negate why we have sexual drives? The drive to reproduce is now faulty because of birth control? It has no meaning? Well how about in places like the middle east where they don’t use condomes? Do they have a different sexuality over there? How about a 100 years ago, was sexuality different then? Did we evolve since then? Are we more evolved than the middle easterners?
This is all good stuff. Tell me more.
@nwoslave
No, throughout history in every different culture men and women have acted and continue to act in many different ways. Men in one culture and/or period of time may act very differently from men in another culture and/or period of time, sometimes acting in completely opposite ways, and the same is true for women. What is considered manly in one culture can be seen as womanly in another and vice-versa.
All of this seems to indicate that there is no one way in which people act and that culture has more to do with it than the gender of a person. This is not hard to understand.
NWO, please name the middle eastern countries where they don’t use condoms. FYI contraception, birth control and abortion are all methods which have been used for hundreds if not thousands of years. Sex for pleasure is not a new practice started by the feminists.
Sex for pleasure isn’t even a solely human practice. Bonobos and dolphins do it (and possibly more, i’m not an expert :O)!
(I’m also going to slip in a reference to penis fencing in the hopes that it causes a really weird topic derail).
Oh, nwoslave, don’t you ever get tired of being so completely and ridiculously wrong all the time? You could easily support a third world country with all the sense you don’t make.
“penis fencing” — flatworms FTW! (I’ll be happy to dig up that cracked.com piece on animals who have dangerous or deadly reproductive sex, humans have it easy)
I can never tell if you’re just thick, or doing a faux naivete stunt. In either case, the point was that without birth control, sex will be limited to when baby making is an acceptable option; with birth control, sexytimes can occur regardless whether children are wanted (considering the number of men who don’t want kids, this should really be seen as a good thing even by the MRM). Other common reasons for having sex — wanting to please one’s partner (this is basically the entire point of oral), curiosity, and I know you’ll have a fit at this one, but sex work. I’m sure in the Owlyverse the idea of sex workers not suffering for their profession is a terrible scourge on society though.
(Can someone please dig up the Biblical reference to Jesus’s treatment of prostitutes? I know there’s at least one and it’s of the “they are your sisters” tone)
gainbourg — contraception/birth control is at least 4,000 years old. Abortion is also…old…I’m less sure how old, but Biblical old
Yes NWO, there’s Biblical evidence in support of abortion — you want Numbers 5, from verse 11, that’s a ritual to induce miscarriage. We call that an abortion these days.
“Are we more evolved than the middle easterners? This is all good stuff. Tell me more.”
Well, since you asked, there’s no such thing as “more evolved”.
There’s evolving, and dead.
Also NWO —
Now, admittedly, two is a small sample, but you’ll note how the first one didn’t even go for human, would you like to refine the question?
My suspicion? Both. He’s trying to make people look ridiculous by adopting a sarcastic persona of wide-eyed innocence, but only succeeding in showing himself to be thick as shit.
He’s far, far less clever than he thinks he is.
Tapir.
You just know that if a feminist woman said, “I don`t care about men`s thoughts and feelings anymore” that Paul and co. would be calling for her head on a platter.
Actually no NWO, men and women don’t have the same sexuality, on the account that people don’t have all the same sexuality. (individuals, yeaaaaah!) But it’s not defined by your gender, or you genitalia. eg I’m pretty I don’t have the same sexuality as you, but I’m also sure my sexuality is very different from the sexuality of many female MBers.
Things that are not part of my sexuality: having period, being pregnant, wearing sexy clothes (how would that work in culture where people are naked. Don’t these women have sexuality?)
I’m not even sure where you disagreeing. Do you not believe me that men can and do wear sexy clothes?** How is it different from when women do it? Sometimes men even do it for the benefit of other men*! Does it count then?
And my question, since you totally missed that point too, is why do we use all the methods of BC if we have such a strong impulse to reproduce? And why do we have sex when are infertile? On period? Menopausal? Gay*? Why does oral sex and butt sex* exist at all?
*I’m sorry for the potentially traumatizing comment. I mentioned naughty word, homosexuality and other sinful things. Hope you can cope with it.
**because I can find you pictures if you need proof
Lawyer
Saying my genitals are my sexuality is like saying my tongue is my love of chocolate.
Stars above, it’s like they’re lowering the collective intelligence of humanity with every word they type…
Also, I would like proof that men wear sexy clothes. 😛
Apologies if this has already been noted, but you’ve got to love this, especially–
‘They have poor analytical skills, they tend to be disorganized, they tend to be impulsive, and they think the world revolves around their feelings. I don’t think all women are like that, but it’s the impression I have of the gender in general, and I don’t like those traits’
What incredible analytical skills!. And imagine – assuming people will give a shit about how you, you know, feel about something.
I had a (female!!) teacher in high school who was having trouble getting across the concept of ‘irony’ to a rowdy class of 14-year-olds. Five minutes on any of these sites should cement it better than any short story.
I’ve always found the whole ‘Test for an Unfaithful Wife’ part interesting. On the one hand, it’s fairly horrible sounding, with all the miscarrying and abdomen swelling and curse of god business. But on the other hand, it’s obviously bullshit. The actual test is dusty water, which of course isn’t actually going to do any of those things. I’ve heard it argued that that was the intent; that the priests who came up with it were basically just looking for a way to assuage baseless jealousy, so they came up with the terrible Curse of the Water with Dust in It, so that when nothing happened they could say, “see? Nothing to worry about.”
These priests have more in common with Granny Weatherwax than she’d want to admit.
Yeah, the whole “bitter water” thing sounds like it was meant to be degrading more than harmful (note the part about removing her head covering…the head covering of a married Jewish woman…it’s a scarlet letter of sorts). Certainly implies though that miscarriage is induced, that’s just fine, that was the goal, which is stronger support for abortion than the twisting of verses to claim the Bible has anything to say against it.
@gainsbourg
“NWO, please name the middle eastern countries where they don’t use condoms. FYI contraception, birth control and abortion are all methods which have been used for hundreds if not thousands of years. Sex for pleasure is not a new practice started by the feminists.”
Yet the entire reason behind the sex drive is 100% due to the reproduction. Woman arouses to signal willingness to mate. Man get’s aroused then mates. Of course sex is pleasurable. It has to be the most powerful/pleasurable drive of all to ensure reproduction.
Do you think because a man put’s a balloon on his johnson it changes the reason why he want’s to have sex? Every cell in his body is screaming reproduce, reproduce, reproduce. The, “why” of wanting sex didn’t change.
Here’s a chart of worldwide birthrates which should clearly show which countries do/don’t use contraceptives.
http://www.pregnantpause.org/numbers/fertility.htm#pk
Zero population growth rate is around 2.1 per family. Looking at the chart it’s obvious which countries have been infected by feminism, particularly considering most of growth in those countries is due to immigration fertility.
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/1204/2/
Argenti Aertheri seems to be a little math whiz. How many years from now till the burka will be in style in Europe? Don’t fret, you gals’ll be screaming for protection long before that happens. WWIII is on the way, the gang at the top want that. They funded feminism, they funded communism, they funded diversity, they funded the LGBTXYZ, they fund all kindsa good stuff. Those guys are smart.
————–
Hey, Dave? Way back there was a thread pretty much devoted to me, some new world order thing or something. Had ta be a year and a half or so ago. I’m fairly certain I had written down the next three countries in the EU that’d require a bail out in the order they’d need it. I’m fairly certain I did and I predicted it’d be Spain, then Italy, then Ireland. Greece had already been bailed out by that time. I was wondering if you could give me the name or link to that thread so I could peruse it and see? The reason I ask is because Spain applied for a bail out a week or so ago.
NWO, learn to search. No one here, especially David, is your research monkey. If it was a whole thread devoted to you (which christ will you get banned already), I’m surprised you don’t have it bookmarked as spank material.
While you’re at it, learn what an apostrophe does and how to spell condom. There is no “e” in that words, you dolt.
“Argenti Aertheri seems to be a little math whiz. How many years from now till the burka will be in style in Europe?”
I don’t do predictive math, but if you wanted me to bet on it, I’d go for “never, considering the French debate over the head scarf in general”.
“Do you think because a man put’s a balloon on his johnson it changes the reason why he want’s to have sex?”
Still not getting it NWO, the question you need here is whether he wants something different from, say, oral — something that cannot make babies.
In that word. Anyway, NWO, do you have any stats from websites without that much of an… agenda?
It’s random question time!
“Take this sentence, ‘There was this —— at the bar that was acting sooooo creepy.’ And tell them nothing but to fill in the blank.”
Who wants to play?
Erm… creep?
I’m pretty sure most people are math whizzes compared to someone who things 70% and 50% are the same thing.