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Men’s Rights Redditors angry that reality is reality. (Murder statistics edition.)

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, mgriff2k4 is angry that the picture to the right here showed up on his computer screen. Sorry, make that fucking angry. “Did this really just fucking pop up on my news feed?” he asks in the title of his post, adding in a comment: “sorry about the word “fucking” but im really pissed off about this.”

Why is he angry? Presumably, he assumes the statistic is untrue, and that it unfairly paints men as evil murderers.

Luckily, in this Age of the Internet it is trivially easy to find out whether statistics like this are true. It involves something called “Google.” mgriff2k4 did not bother to avail himself of this easy-to-use research tool.

But I did. In less than 5 minutes, I confirmed that this factoid is indeed true, at least according to the most recent figures on gender and homicide found on the Department of Justice’s web site, drawn from FBI data covering the years from 1976-2005. According to the FBI, 30% of women who are murdered are murdered by “intimates.” Roughly 20% are killed by husbands or ex-husbands; 10% by boyfriends or girlfriends. (In the overwhelming majority of cases the murderers are boyfriends, not girlfriends; men are ten times more likely to commit murder than women.)

While four times as many men are murdered than women, only 5% of murdered men are killed by “intimates.” Men kill women more than twice as often as women kill men. Women suffer far more serious injuries from domestic violence than men do; so it is not altogether unexpected that they are also far more likely to be murdered by intimates.

If you want to see what this means on a human level, I suggest you take a look at the excellent if depressing web site Domestic Violence Crime Watch, which links to stories in which men are the perpetrators, and in which men are the victims. There are far more of those in the former category than in the latter.

I should note that (as of this writing) one commenter in the thread also found his way to the DOJ site, and noted that men were more likely to be killed by strangers or acquaintances. But he didn’t bother to tell mkgriff2k4 that the sign in the picture was in fact accurate.

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Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

Cooking is the same. If I make a pot of stew the only difference is the size of the pot I use. I got loads of cookbooks princess. 20 servings of beef stew doesn’t take 20x as long a 1 serving. Do you even know how to cook?

What? No, the size of the pot is not the only difference, unless you think making stew for more people just means adding more water. You have to at least chop up the meat, and probably peel the vegetables and chop those up too.
If you’re making the same quantity of stew for several people as you would normally do for yourself, it will run out faster, meaning you have to cook more often. If you’re making a larger portion of stew to last longer you’ll have to prepare a lot more ingredients.
Seriously, do you ever cook, nwoslave?

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Maybe Owly is Jesus and just makes the same amount of food feed more people.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

The sums of money all these “studies” claim are a joke, they normally hover around 150K a year. I’ll do it for half that, 75K a year. Any takers?

But if we said “yes,” you couldn’t take us up on it, because then you’d lose your sense of moral superiority. You’d have to call yourself a lazy gold-digger.

You’ve created a real Catch-22 here. You hate doing your job, yet you hate everyone who doesn’t have a comparable job. If your lot in life ever got better, wouldn’t you have to hate yourself for it?

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Custody is ownership. If no one has an irrevocable right to their children, what’s all the hubub about child custody? If that’s the case, no one get’s custody.

But if the right to children is 100% irrevocable, then both parents have to get 100% full-time custody no matter what. That’s going to be rough if one of them wants to move out.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

NWO, your time estimates are way off base. Okay, it takes exactly one hour to fix a lasagna from scratch, and I’m not going to count the time it takes to bake it. It takes about ten minutes to chop up lettuce for a side salad. It takes about ten minutes to brew and then add sugar to make iced tea. Add another five minutes to make some instant pudding for dessert. After dinner, it takes about fifteen minutes to do the dishes. Feeding a family one home cooked meal can take almost two hours from start to finish, not including baking time. That’s just one meal.

How the heck are you able to buy groceries, fix three meals and two snacks, do a load of laundry, wash all the dishes, sweep the floors, mop the kids’ messes, and clean the bathroom all in an hour? Oh yeah, and you can do all this while taking care of babies and small children, so you also have to change diapers, breastfeed (or make bottles), and entertain older children. Even if you have an electric dryer instead of clothesline, a dishwasher instead of a sink, and a Roomba, it’s still not possible. You couldn’t even do all that if you had pizza delivery for all three meals in the day.

Let’s get real here. You like to say how easy it is to clean a house and take care of children, because you consider it “woman’s work”. If you really thought that scrubbing toilets and chasing toddlers around was easy and fun, you would find a job doing that. You know good and well that daycares pay their workers minimum wage with no health insurance, paid maternity leave, or retirement plans. If you become a nanny, you would be lucky to get room and board along with minimum wage.

Yes, the work of raising children and housekeeping is incredibly valuable, so those estimates of being worth $100,000 a year are accurate. The reality is that nobody wants to pay living wages to either stay at home parents, daycare workers, or nannies, and the US society undervalues the importance of affordable, high quality child care and early childhood education. So people are forced to either live around the poverty line on one income, find a family member to raise their children for them, or be lucky enough to have a job that pays as much or more than daycare costs. Parents can’t afford to stay home with their children, and they can’t afford to work outside the home,

You of course care nothing about the issues facing parents or children. You just want to bash stay at home moms. I don’t know if you give a free pass to stay at home dads or not.

Oh, here are some more accurate numbers about the amount of time it takes to raise children and manage a household.

Based on 2005 data, which have been compared to those from national time diaries, the research shows women, of all ages with no children, on average do 10 hours of housework a week before marriage and 17 hours of housework a week after marriage. Men of all ages with no children, on the other hand, do eight hours before marriage and seven hours afterwards.

“The situation gets worse for women when they have children,” says Stafford.

Married women with more than three kids recorded an average of about 28 hours of housework a week, while married men with more than three kids logged only about 10 hours of housework a week.

from National Science Foundation Discoveries

The average family with children does about 38 hours of chores a week, which doesn’t include outdoor chores like gardening and mowing. How can NWO run a household in 1/5 of the time?

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

NWO, why don’t you work in a daycare?

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
8 years ago

Also, playing with your kids, helping them with homework, and running them around to various activities takes no time at all.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

bionic mommy beat me to it with actual data, but I have a couple anecdotes for NWO.

“If it takes 2 hours to shop for one person for the week, which it doesn’t…”

So you live next to a grocery store? I have to take the bus, which means going more often (because I can only buy what I can carry back) and 30~45 min on the bus/waiting for the bus. That works out to nearly 2 hours. My aunt in upstate NY? Nearest grocery store is a solid hour drive away, it takes her more like 3 hours. Where I to forget an onion, or something, that’d be a 3 mile walk, which, since I prefer not to go out for a job just to pick up an onion, is nearly an hour.

“Cooking is the same. If I make a pot of stew the only difference is the size of the pot I use. I got loads of cookbooks princess. 20 servings of beef stew doesn’t take 20x as long a 1 serving. Do you even know how to cook?”

…wow…as was said already, do you? Do you have an concept how much longer it takes to, say, chop the broccoli for a meal for 4, versus for 1? Hint, about 4 times as long. Should I find a vegetable with the magic power to allow for cutting any amount in the same amount of time, trust me, I’ll patent that shit.

“When I vacuum the floor does it take 5x as long for five people? It takes the same amount of time, nothing has changed.”

duuude…ever cleaned up after kids, repeatedly, solely your problem? They make really big messes. Ones most adults couldn’t manage to make if they tried. The amount of mud an adult, who wipes zir feet, tracks in, is nothing compared to what a kid can track in. This one is more like 8 times as much work than 4 times as much work.

And laundry takes a lot long if your kid spit-up on your white shirt, those stains are fun to remove. This ignores the kids trying to play with the clothing your trying to fold and how they can be counter productive to getting anything done.

As to whether I can cook, pop quiz, how do you activate yeast to make bread? (That broccoli above? Cream of Broccoli soup, from scratch, it was yummers)

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

John —

John oh John, didn’t we go through why 3:2 is a meaningless number?

“I’ve been told that 30% and 5% have relevance because one is much larger than the other when you put them side by side. The issue is that THEY HAVE NO RELEVENCE TO EACH OTHER. They only have relevance when compared to total deaths as stated in the article so 30% and 70% has relevance and 5% and 95% has relevance. Trying to assign relevance to something that isn’t will be seen as misandry in the MRM.”

What does that even mean? Is making sense misandry too?

“I have no problem with feminists using the 3:2 ratio or saying women are killed 50% more often than men by their intimate partners. They chose to say something else. That will be seen as misandry in the MRM.”

Yeah something that’s actually true and not a byproduct of rounding errors, but truth is apparently misandry now.

“For those who want to retort yes but it’s men killing men, I already know that feminists don’t count male on male violence when they keep score in their gender war.”

Anyone here have a score card? Can I have a copy?

We aren’t “keeping score” — we’re feminists, as in, concerned about the rights of women — we aren’t going to bend over backwards to perpetually ensure we’re also talking about men. It’s goddamned tiresome when Every. Single. Thread. about women or women’s rights becomes a What About The Menz?! (side bar, see it? now click What About The Menz?! go there or back to the GMP or something).

Apparently not centering men on everything is misandry? So if you’re being misogynistic, that’s the only way not to be misandristic? You’ve set up a nice no-win there.

Had you simply asked David to remove the word only, and waited patiently, bearing in mind he is/was on vacation, you might’ve not only been taken seriously, but gotten your request fulfilled. But one poorly edited word on David’s part does not negate your horrible math, nor your rape apologia.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Children are adorable. It is a survival strategy, because they also do things like this:

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Ugh. This is one of the many reasons I don’t have kids – the idea of having to clean all that up makes my uterus try to padlock itself shut.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

NWO: Cooking is the same. If I make a pot of stew the only difference is the size of the pot I use. I got loads of cookbooks princess. 20 servings of beef stew doesn’t take 20x as long a 1 serving. Do you even know how to cook?

And you’ve never made stew for twenty. I’ve catered. Increasing the volume in a pot does increase the cooking time, and for somethings (stew among them) the increase is substantial, because part of what has to happen is for the liquid needed to cook the ingredients to then be reduced, and reduction is a function of surface ratio.

The more liquid in the pot, the lower the ratio, the longer it takes to cook.

Baking something like a lasagna is the same. It’s a sq/cube problem.

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

Oh Jo, don’t you love me any more? Nary a word in reply to me this time? And you had all that time while I was at work yesterday, and taking care of houseguests today.

I’m crushed.

Shaenon
8 years ago

I’m giving you a cut rate offer. My prices are far below what women have declared domestic chores are worth. Since I kinda know you, for you and your husband I’ll only charge 45K a year to cook, clean, shop and do your laundry.

I’ve already offered you the deal that real-life homemakers, the ones you envy so much, get: I will feed you and put a roof over your head for as long as you continue to please me. It’s like a full-time vacation, right? Message me and we’ll set it up.

If you want to get paid for that type of work, follow the links I gave you and pursue a job as a housekeeper or childcare provider. I’m not even kidding here. If you hate your job, get a job you enjoy! Nobody’s forcing you to keep working as a milking-machine technician.

Ponkz
Ponkz
8 years ago

I asked my husband – who is a professional chef running a catering company, and often cooks for over 300 people a day – if cooking a stew for one really does take no longer than cooking a stew for 20. He said that’s actually technically true, but Slavey’s not taking into consideration prep time, etc. Also my husband’s idea of a stew is something he’s left cooking very slowly for 24 hours or more and obviously that’s going to have the same result whether it’s for one person or 100 people. Trying to cook something quickly is a whole ‘nother story.

Ithiliana
8 years ago

Clearly, the number of people one cooks for changes nothing!

That’s why restaurants who routinely cook for large numbers of people have kitchens just like we do at home.

Oh, wait………………

Xtra
Xtra
8 years ago

“Even being monsterously generous to the point of laughable it takes no more than 2 hours a day, more like 1 but I feel generous. 2 hours a day times 365 days a year equals 730. 75,000/730=$102.73 an hour. Since I’m such a nice guy I’ll make it an even $100.00 an hour to cook, shop, clean and do your laundry.”

I have six children, oldest is 18 and youngest is 1. The older children can help but I have to clean more than once a day for 2 hours.

Young children mess up all the time, I won’t even go into if my 1 year old takes his diaper off and pees and poops all over the place…

“Do you do laundry every day? No, once a week. So even for five people that’s 2.5 hours a week, althoug it really won’t be 5x the time it takes. Not so bad is it?”

ACtually I probably should do laundry every day but I have a full time job as my husbands work hours vary which makes me the bread winner.(and no unfourtunately he does not pick up the slack at home)

I end up doing laundry at least every 2 or three days and when I do it is basically and all day event with me putting in and taking out loads every 45 minutes all day long.

Young children have accidents so it is likely there will be 2 sometimes 3 changes of clothes a day at home or daycare and the daycare does not wash the clothes, they put them in a bag for me to bring home and wash.

And then of course changes of clothes for me and the older kids if the little ones get food/pee/vomit/poop on us and we need to change=more clothes to wash.

“Shopping is the same. If it takes 2 hours to shop for one person for the week, which it doesn’t, it doesn’t take 10 hours for five people. Instead of one pound of ground beef you get five pounds. Does it take 5x as long to pick up that prewrapped package? A bottle of ketchup will suffice for all 5 people.”

Shopping can take 2 hours if, they have everything we need at the store 1 mile away from us(usually they don’t), then we have to go the walmart about 6 miles away and they usually have a hella long line so that’s usually 3 and a half hours but luckily we have a car now, we used to have to bus it.

“When I vacuum the floor does it take 5x as long for five people? It takes the same amount of time, nothing has changed.”

Those with children usually
(if they can afford it) have a home with more rooms, each needing vacuuming.

There are items you should not vacuum and thus before I vacuum I have to go across the floor picking up the items the little ones left on the floor that would kill the cheap vacuum that is all I can afford.

And once again, this is not once a day and I’m done and the kids don’t mess up again, it is as many times as needed if a mess is made.

I know it could be different for other families but this is just a little sample of what the life of a mom with many children.

I hate that tO MRA’S my life is supposedly easy or that as a black woman/mother I don’t exist or that there are not many mothers that work full time in and outside the home.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

Is NWO still in here trying to tell people who know better that cooking, and cleaning, and housework for a family takes no longer than it does for a pathetic, lonely, middle-aged bachelor without kith or kin, free from interruption, and with -I’m guess- little variety and low standards?

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